General Star Trek thread

G-Money

I thought it might be an idea for us to start a general Star Trek thread to discuss anything and everything related to Trek.

I'm in the middle of watching DS9 now, I'm being reminded how funny Quark is, he was great.

Goldstein

One thing that always annoyed me was the ships always being oriented in the same plane as each other. Funny that both Star Trek and Star Wars both suffered from this 2 dimensional thinking regarding their ships & fleets. It was a bit late to realise ships can go any direction in space when Riker's future tri-nacelled Enterprise D finally engaged the Klingons in a different plane in All Good Things.

Myrddin

Goldstein wrote: »

One thing that always annoyed me was the ships always being oriented in the same plane as each other. Funny that both Star Trek and Star Wars both suffered from this 2 dimensional thinking regarding their ships & fleets. It was a bit late to realise ships can go any direction in space when Riker's future tri-nacelled Enterprise D finally engaged the Klingons in a different plane in All Good Things.

I don't think it was two dimensional thinking really, it just looks better on screen if ships are oriented the same way as each other.

G-Money

The Ferengi really crack me up. Rom is very funny, as is Liquidator Brunt

Myrddin

G-Money wrote: »

The Ferengi really crack me up. Rom is very funny, as is Liquidator Brunt

The Magnificent Ferengi <think thats the name> is a cracker of an episode, Brunt, Rom, Cousin Gaila, Quark & Nog...class

nyarlothothep

I always found those shots which lingered on crew members walking out of rooms before cutting to the next shot to be slightly awkward and amusing.

helimachoptor

Goldstein wrote: »

One thing that always annoyed me was the ships always being oriented in the same plane as each other. Funny that both Star Trek and Star Wars both suffered from this 2 dimensional thinking regarding their ships & fleets. It was a bit late to realise ships can go any direction in space when Riker's future tri-nacelled Enterprise D finally engaged the Klingons in a different plane in All Good Things.

The one time they didnt do this was when the Klingons came to save the day in the battle to re-take DS9, they came in on the Z-axis and it really looked great.

I dont think theres a need to do it all the time and it worked very well for this.

downwithpeace

EnterNow wrote: »

The Magnificent Ferengi <think thats the name> is a cracker of an episode, Brunt, Rom, Cousin Gaila, Quark & Nog...class

That's an excellent episode, most episodes revolving around the Ferengi were good.

Myrddin

downwithpeace wrote: »

That's an excellent episode, most episodes revolving around the Ferengi were good.

Iggy Pop also made an excellent Vorta if memory serves!

downwithpeace

EnterNow wrote: »

Iggy Pop also made an excellent Vorta if memory serves!

That's right and the other Vorta reminded me of Elijah Wood, might just be me :rolleyes:

G-Money

I just finished watching The Visitor again. Words fail me. I don't think I've ever watched any TV show, film or anything else that affects me as much as that episode does. It's a beautifully crafted piece of work that choked me up and had tears rolling down my face several times. Simply stunning.

Bog Cotton

Hi G-Money like yourself I have been rewatching DS9 everyday.
Yes, that is a great episode, very well written. Good acting as well.

Just watched this and I have to agree with Eddington.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRxPjJ8VlyE

But Siskos response was very uncharacteristic. I would think Sisko would sympathise, but all he could say was
"I don't give a damn what you think about the federation, the Maquis or anything else. All I know is that you betrayed your oath, your duty, and me. And if it takes me the rest of my life, I will see you standing before a court martial that'll break you and send you to a penal colony, where you will spend the rest of your days growing old and wondering whether a ship full of replicators was really worth it."

It wasn't long ago that Sisko was getting a lecture from that Admiral Leyton on Earth (who was going to set up martial law) about duty and loyalty, and Sisko sided with doing the right thing, instead of following orders.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]LEYTON: " Without the chain of command, Starfleet would cease to function and we wouldn't stand a chance against our enemies. I'm still your commanding officer, and now more than ever I need you to respect my authority. "
SISKO: " And I cannot do that! Not this time. "[/FONT]

GreenWolfe

Bog Cotton wrote: »

Hi G-Money like yourself I have been rewatching DS9 everyday.
Yes, that is a great episode, very well written. Good acting as well.

Just watched this and I have to agree with Eddington.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRxPjJ8VlyE

But Siskos response was very uncharacteristic. I would think Sisko would sympathise, but all he could say was
"I don't give a damn what you think about the federation, the Maquis or anything else. All I know is that you betrayed your oath, your duty, and me. And if it takes me the rest of my life, I will see you standing before a court martial that'll break you and send you to a penal colony, where you will spend the rest of your days growing old and wondering whether a ship full of replicators was really worth it."

It wasn't long ago that Sisko was getting a lecture from that Admiral Leyton on Earth (who was going to set up martial law) about duty and loyalty, and Sisko sided with doing the right thing, instead of following orders.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]LEYTON: " Without the chain of command, Starfleet would cease to function and we wouldn't stand a chance against our enemies. I'm still your commanding officer, and now more than ever I need you to respect my authority. "
SISKO: " And I cannot do that! Not this time. "[/FONT]

I think in both cases Sisko believed that both of them betrayed the Federation and its ideals.

Eddington had served under Sisko for long enough and he didn't even catch a hint of dissatisfaction or betrayal from Eddington. I guess he was furious at being hoodwinked so completely while Eddington was supplying and covertly aiding the Maquis all along. Cal Hudson did the same and Sisko's reaction was similar.

With Leyton, as you said he tried to set up a military dictatorship. Sisko spent most of his life serving the Federation, his wife was killed during his service and he raised his son alone on some god-forsaken space station because he tried to keep the freedoms and values of the Federation alive through his duty to Starfleet(this is getting really cheesy!). So to see a superior tear apart all he had sacrificed for, into something that over time may have turned into a brutal and oppressive régime was more than he could bear imo.

Not of course that Sisko was a saint himself. Not by a long shot!

Bog Cotton

Yeah your right there EP.

GreenWolfe

G-Money wrote: »

I'm in the middle of watching DS9 now, I'm being reminded how funny Quark is, he was great.

I'm watching Rejoined. The bit where Jadzia and Bashir 'pull' latinum from Quark's ears ears....hilarious. I laughed when one of his Ferengi employees started sniffing around his ear for money!

Myrddin

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

I'm watching Rejoined. The bit where Jadzia and Bashir 'pull' latinum from Quark's ears ears....hilarious. I laughed when one of his Ferengi employees started sniffing around his ear for money!

Is that the episode where Jadzia has the call on a new Trill initiate? God yer man is one for the cringe thread

GreenWolfe

EnterNow wrote: »

Is that the episode where Jadzia has the call on a new Trill initiate? God yer man is one for the cringe thread

I didn't think of him actually, he did make me shudder. Nah, it's the one where Jadzia meets up with her ex-wife...symbiont...thing.

Myrddin

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

I didn't think of him actually, he did make me shudder. Nah, it's the one where Jadzia meets up with her ex-wife...symbiont...thing.

The lezzer episode?

downwithpeace

EnterNow wrote: »

Is that the episode where Jadzia has the call on a new Trill initiate? God yer man is one for the cringe thread

Playing God and your right he is.

GreenWolfe

EnterNow wrote: »

The lezzer episode?

I thought it was more of a married-couple-have-chance-to-be-together type of thing. One of their more tasteless attempts to get ratings from that angle imo. Well, that and the one where the DS9 crew go to Risa - that was awful!

Except for than TNG episode where Riker's with the androgynous alien Star Trek tends to tapdance around LGBT issues in general. Considering the taboos ST has tried to break in the past it's one of my biggest disappointments with the series in general.

Myrddin

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

I thought it was more of a married-couple-have-chance-to-be-together type of thing

Well it was really, & another chance to look at reassociation of Trill society. Capped by Jadzia snogging another girl

Bog Cotton

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

I thought it was more of a married-couple-have-chance-to-be-together type of thing. One of their more tasteless attempts to get ratings from that angle imo. Well, that and the one where the DS9 crew go to Risa - that was awful!

Except for than TNG episode where Riker's with the androgynous alien Star Trek tends to tapdance around LGBT issues in general. Considering the taboos ST has tried to break in the past it's one of my biggest disappointments with the series in general.

Totally agree there EP. That Risa episode was aweful. I thought Star Trek totally lost the plot. I personally hated all the love relationship crap that DS9 got into.

Bog Cotton

"Come to Quark's!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg8o__6bEEY

De Bhál

this always makes me laugh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SySZdvsFYt4

azezil

Goldstein wrote: »

One thing that always annoyed me was the ships always being oriented in the same plane as each other. Funny that both Star Trek and Star Wars both suffered from this 2 dimensional thinking regarding their ships & fleets. It was a bit late to realise ships can go any direction in space when Riker's future tri-nacelled Enterprise D finally engaged the Klingons in a different plane in All Good Things.

Eeeehhhh, Star Trek 2??

Goldstein

azezil wrote: »

Eeeehhhh, Star Trek 2??

lol, ok, everything except Star Trek 2 and All Good Things. There are a few others (Scorpion, Face of the Enemy, First Contact etc) but it's still a ratio of hundreds to one against. 99% of the time they thought in 2 dimensions and almost never brought the notion of pitch into things. Roll was used seldom enough as it was. And the reason is obvious if you consider that many of the vfx shots (especially in early episodes) were composed and shot using fairly large models which somewhat limited them. They also complemented vfx shots any way they could even hanging models from strings to make the shot work. Strings aren't mad about the whole 3-dimensional thing.

If you think back on how Firefly or Battlestar handled spacial awareness, they did demonstrate much more of an understanding that space is 3 dimensional in how they portrayed ship travel using all of the dynamic parameters inherent to space travel. Granted they had access to today's technology and I'm sure the next iteration of Star Trek will no doubt follow suit. When we're likely to see that is the real question. I'm still undecided whether Abrams' space action films will ultimately have a positive or negative effect on the future of a proper Trek tv show.

Making the science as realsistic as possible in Science Fiction benefits the genre, not hinders it. Especially with Star Trek - the harder the sci-fi the better.

nyarlothothep

There are few greater pleasures than watching Star Trek III whilst drinking wine beside a fire or alternatively eating breakfast whilst watching Star Trek.

norrie rugger

azezil wrote: »

Eeeehhhh, Star Trek 2??

Where is this use of 3D tactics? In the nebula there is a tiny variation in the Y axis but there is no Z axis difference. The attitude of the ships remains the same.

I might be forgetting something though

Kirby

norrie rugger wrote: »

Where is this use of 3D tactics? In the nebula there is a tiny variation in the Y axis but there is no Z axis difference. The attitude of the ships remains the same.

I might be forgetting something though

In an episode of Voyager, Commander Chuckles does an honest to god loop-de-loop in a shuttle dog fight........and it works. He destroys the other shuttle because it just had to keep going in a straight line.

Take that two dimensions!

GreenWolfe

Myrddin

norrie rugger wrote: »

Where is this use of 3D tactics? In the nebula there is a tiny variation in the Y axis but there is no Z axis difference. The attitude of the ships remains the same.

I might be forgetting something though

I'm almost certain there's a scene when the two ships are looking for each other, there's a clip that shows the Enterprise cross far over the top of the Reliant.

The Khitomer battle is riddled in such examples also, remember a photon torpedo blasting straight through the Enterprise saucer section from directly underneath?

The Valiant & Dominion battleship had a reference also, the Captain actually mentioned the z-axis.

helimachoptor

If anyone plays homeworld 1/2 it provides a pretty decent Z axis system for attacking ships and there's a star trek mod for it.

But in ST z-axis ship to ship fighting is pretty poor. I think theres a couple of defiant battles but in general its not done. I think because the ships take up so much screen space they dont bother.

Also if you take a look at Stargate and the ep where the Ori ships come through
Around the 58 second mark, it looks odd tbh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-2WXW3s09Q

downwithpeace

I think that's due to formation and size of the Ori ships, looks a little better before and after.

komodosp

G-Money wrote: »

I'm in the middle of watching DS9 now, I'm being reminded how funny Quark is, he was great.

It was Odo and Quark that saved DS9, IMHO... Or maybe René and Armin

Kiith

Odo / Quark, and Bashir / O'Brien were some of the best things about DS9.

Oh, and Bashir / Garak. And Dukat / Garak. And Worf / Martok. And Odo / Weyoun.

And Quark / Rom :P

G-Money

Star Trek films on over the next few days on Film 4

Tonight - 6.20pm - The Motion Picture

Tomorrow - 6.50pm - The Wrath of Khan

Friday - 7pm - The Search for Spock

Saturday - 9pm - Star Trek (2009)

G-Money

Just finished Season 7 of DS9. Damn fast watching box-sets, what the feck am I supposed to watch now? :eek:

G-Money

G-Money wrote: »

Just finished Season 7 of DS9. Damn fast watching box-sets, what the feck am I supposed to watch now? :eek:

Network 2, as Star Trek (2009) is on right now :pac:

downwithpeace

I'm on season 4 of DS9 but I'm watching another show at the same time so it's stretched out.

G-Money

downwithpeace wrote: »

I'm on season 4 of DS9 but I'm watching another show at the same time so it's stretched out.

How did you get on with "The Visitor"? I got so choked up watching it was almost unbearable.

downwithpeace

G-Money wrote: »

How did you get on with "The Visitor"? I got so choked up watching it was almost unbearable.

I've seen it a few times, not one of my favorite episodes but it's one that reminds me of the Outer Limits, a story that can stand out on its own even if DS9 wasn't around.

Myrddin

G-Money wrote: »

Just finished Season 7 of DS9. Damn fast watching box-sets, what the feck am I supposed to watch now? :eek:

Stargate SG1, you can thank me later

Daith

G-Money wrote: »

Just finished Season 7 of DS9. Damn fast watching box-sets, what the feck am I supposed to watch now? :eek:

Nu Battlestar Galactica the true followup to DS9!

G-Money

I have BSG on DVD, must get around to watching it. I watched the pilot and it sort of put me to sleep a bit. I think I might just get stuck into Season 1.

3ndahalfof6

my sister is on the show, what gets my goat is how they can lose or not establish communications, come on guys why are we still having problems with technology so far advanced,

then there is the telly porter, I cant get a lock on captain, jordi just farted and its interfering with the signal,

also why do they use our history when setting up scenes in the hologram suite, oh and you can not get harmed in here, ooh shiit, I mean that's what they told me, sorry.

downwithpeace

EnterNow wrote: »

Stargate SG1, you can thank me later

I did it the other way around, just as fun

G-Money wrote: »

I have BSG on DVD, must get around to watching it. I watched the pilot and it sort of put me to sleep a bit. I think I might just get stuck into Season 1.

Pilot was drawn out, I had to watch it two or three times to make sure I didn't miss any of it, most of the rest is more fast paced.

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

my sister is on the show, what gets my goat is how they can lose or not establish communications, come on guys why are we still having problems with technology so far advanced,

then there is the telly porter, I cant get a lock on captain, jordi just farted and its interfering with the signal,

also why do they use our history when setting up scenes in the hologram suite, oh and you can not get harmed in here, ooh shiit, I mean that's what they told me, sorry.

Communications go out in all the shows for many different reasons, easy way of adding peril to a story.

Same as above, think the Enterprise crew tracked it down to O'Brien leaving.

Safety, it can be turned off, Voyager has some episodes dealing with it and I think there are a few TNG that touch on it.

Myrddin

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

my sister is on the show, what gets my goat is how they can lose or not establish communications, come on guys why are we still having problems with technology so far advanced,

then there is the telly porter, I cant get a lock on captain, jordi just farted and its interfering with the signal,

also why do they use our history when setting up scenes in the hologram suite, oh and you can not get harmed in here, ooh shiit, I mean that's what they told me, sorry.

If your sis is Robin Leffler tell her I said hi

Joking aside, who did she play?

Tomk1

One problem I see is the universal translator (UT).
Where is it?
In DS9 'Little Green Men' Quark Nog & Rom end up in Roswell, they hit their heads trying to get the UT working, so it must be inside their head.

In Ent, the computer & that awefull actor does the translations, a lot of time is spent on language translation problems. But with scences set on planets, aliens & humans have no problem communicating, they have no computer doing the translation.

From wiki, by the 24 century the UT is built into the communication pins, but we don't hear both, the original voice just the translated one.

Not everyone on DS9 has a communication pin and many other episodes like Voyager when Janeway & crew were brainwashed & stuck on a planet as slaves (same story as the SG1 one) no problems communicating.

Nevermind the DS9-mirror universe, they speak the same language, or the UT just happens to be compatable.

At least HGTTG has a Babble-fish
In a few episodes of Star trek ..... the UT stops working, or computers are down, so what and where is it?

www.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_translator
Does explain a lot, I never took any notice of it untill Enterprise as they made a big deal out of it.

Kiith

The Universal Translator has always been 'A Wizard did it' kind of thing for me. Fair enough if a computer could translate the language, but somehow replace the original sound and mouth movement? Definitely a wizard.

Either that or English has become the Galaxy standard language :pac:

Myrddin

It's just a writing convenience. At least they've acknowledged it exists, rather than expecting people to believe English is the language of choice all over the galaxy.

It's like the transporter, model shots were too costly in the TOS days so they needed a convenient method of getting from ship to shore.

It juts takes the monotony out of complications, just write your way around them & hopefully focus on the story rather than the technicalities.

downwithpeace

I didn't like the Enterprise take on the UT, mainly early episodes, one minute Hoshi says the UT isn't locking on then Archer or T'Pol start pushing her and magically she fluently speaking to the alien.

There is an episode from TNG where Picard has to go to a planet with an alien and try to figure out how they speak as the UT couldn't pick it up, turns out it was the way they spoke, in story form if memory serves.