General Star Trek thread

Indricotherium

I love those early voyager episodes that focus on chakotays spirituality and visions.

The one Torres gets split in 2 is class too.

And any episode featuring the kazon or the vidians as the bad guys.

Myrddin

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

I'd add S1 - If Wishes Were Horses to that list. Seemed like a recycled TOS or TNG script to me - didn't fit in with DS9 at all, personally.

The ending of that episode is ridiculous, "you were never in any real danger at all". Your right though, it doesn't fit with a 'non exploration' based show

AlanD5734

downwithpeace wrote: »

TNG had far better space battles then Voyager, TNG kept things with in a realistic approach were as Voyager did the one heroic little ship versus the Borg and as TNG had pointed out so well, the Borg were to be feared. Even in captains Picard was far superior to Janeway in the way he was written and played, Janeway was fine as a character but not on the same level.
Sure there were good looking characters in Voyager but there were good looking characters in all other Star Trek shows as well so that's more down to who the viewer finds more appealing, Kes and Seven were basically Voyagers version of Data.

Year of Hell was one of the stand out Voyager episodes but it also didn't fit with the series in that it highlighted the need for repair and refit on a major scale only to have it fixed by the annoying Voyager use of time, what about all the other battles and general ware and tear.

I've not mentioned anything about DS9 because your going to rewatch that and I highy recommend it.

Yes I'll agree Voyager went a bit mad on the whole Borg story (the introduction of 7 was a brave move which I dont think payed off also) they dumped down the Borg and made them a lot less of a dangerous foe, which did spoil it a bit.
The whole which captain is better Picard or Janeway, well I thiink its a hard call, 2 very different crews, ships, circumstances etc. But I do know if I was going into battle tomorrow I'd have Janeway at the helm of my Flagship!
Kes was one of the worst characters out of any of the Star Trek series, she was a completely boring and insufferable character. 7 wasn't much better but mad up for it in some episodes.
Voyagers biggest down fall I feel was that they should have done each episode on a time scale. At the start of each episode they should have had the date/ distance remaining and days of journey. This would have had shed a easier sense of time frame from the last episode and show an approx amount of time used to repair the ship etc. In fairness though they did use the power usage issue a good few times, I feel if they used it more they would have weakened Voyagers image, yes I know they were in the Delta Quadrant all alone etc no starfleet etc and that that is the way it would have been, so we think. Yes I will admit things were just a small bit too cushy though.

Yup DS9 tonight, laptop at maximum warp:D:)

Myrddin

AlanD5734 wrote: »

Yup DS9 tonight, laptop at maximum warp:D:)

You'll need to drop to impulse & dock. May I suggest Upper Pylon 3?

AlanD5734

EnterNow wrote: »

You'll need to drop to impulse & dock. May I suggest Upper Pylon 3?

and Quarks for a romulan ale, im playing O Brien at 19:00 in a game of 501 for 2 strips of latnium

Beefy78

AlanD5734 wrote: »

and Quarks for a romulan ale, im playing O Brien at 19:00 in a game of 501 for 2 strips of latnium

Just don't let him take you up to the holosuite for a reenactment of the Battle of Britain. You'll be there all night and he gets in a mood if you don't win.

Myrddin

AlanD5734 wrote: »

and Quarks for a romulan ale, im playing O Brien at 19:00 in a game of 501 for 2 strips of latnium

O'Brien? He left with Keiko & co for Earth years ago man...by now, Morn is probably running the bar

AlanD5734

EnterNow wrote: »

O'Brien? He left with Keiko & co for Earth years ago man...by now, Morn is probably running the bar

Beefy, I dunno what ya mean, as I've said I never gave DS9 my full attention... That will change tonight ha.

As above ^ enter now, so I'm sure I'll get to it all soon

downwithpeace

EnterNow wrote: »

O'Brien? He left with Keiko & co for Earth years ago man...by now, Morn is probably running the bar

A very under stocked bar if true.

IvySlayer

Indricotherium wrote: »

I love those early voyager episodes that focus on chakotays spirituality and visions.

The one Torres gets split in 2 is class too.

And any episode featuring the kazon or the vidians as the bad guys.

Serious?

Chakotay was an awful character. His storylines were tedious imo. Kazons were failed Klingons, the Vidiians were OK though.

I never took a shine to Torres, the human/Klingon arc was already kind of done in TNG/DS9 with Worf.

IvySlayer

Voyager should of been a battered ship, barely held together ala Year of Hell. How could DS9 have so many great characters and Voyager so few?

Janeway - Insufferable at times.
Chakotay - Blargh.
Tuvok - He was all right.
Paris - Liked him.
Kim - Goody two shoes
Torres - Meh.
Seven - Great character but overused, along with anything Borg.
Doctor - Loved him
Neelix - ....
Kes - Thank God she had the lifetime of a dog..

Cookie_Monster

don't forget that insufferable Naomi Wildman

I'm sure if you counted all the background characters you'd get up to around 500 crewmen too, some of them were terrible as well.

downwithpeace

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

don't forget that insufferable Naomi Wildman

I'm sure if you counted all the background characters you'd get up to around 500 crewmen too, some of them were terrible as well.

After DS9 I got use to kids in Star Trek so Naomi didn't annoy me, her interactions with 7 and the Doctor were ok.

Indricotherium

IvySlayer wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

I love those early voyager episodes that focus on chakotays spirituality and visions.

The one Torres gets split in 2 is class too.

And any episode featuring the kazon or the vidians as the bad guys.

Serious?

Chakotay was an awful character. His storylines were tedious imo. Kazons were failed Klingons, the Vidiians were OK though.

I never took a shine to Torres, the human/Klingon arc was already kind of done in TNG/DS9 with Worf.

The first 3 series of voyager every episode a classic.

Some other favourites:

Datas girlfriend.....Harry Kim captain of a ship for a week.....tucker pregnant.....odo and luxanna troi...Kai opaca, classics.

All those episodes of ds9 with Kira agonising over being part of the system.......gems.

GreenWolfe

IvySlayer wrote: »

Voyager should of been a battered ship, barely held together ala Year of Hell. How could DS9 have so many great characters and Voyager so few?

Janeway - Insufferable at times.
Chakotay - Blargh.
Tuvok - He was all right.
Paris - Liked him.
Kim - Goody two shoes
Torres - Meh.
Seven - Great character but overused, along with anything Borg.
Doctor - Loved him
Neelix - ....
Kes - Thank God she had the lifetime of a dog..

I agree with everything except Paris. Never liked him. Was he supposed to be the bad boy or something? That was mostly being occasionally rude or being sloppy with his conn reports. To me, that's more incompetence than attitude.

(Yes, he spent 30 days in the brig, but he was trying to underhandedly save a water planet's environment and merely happened to be caught. And in Investigations, he was ordered, ordered(!) to act like a jerk and leave the ship. There's still a distinct lack of attitude with Paris.)

The whole thing turned into everyone complaining whining that they couldn't have replicated food anymore, or they could only spend so long on the holodecks. Voyager should have been more like the U.S.S. Equinox - that was an excellent episode.

AlanD5734

IvySlayer wrote: »

Voyager should of been a battered ship, barely held together ala Year of Hell. How could DS9 have so many great characters and Voyager so few?

Janeway - Insufferable at times.
Chakotay - Blargh.
Tuvok - He was all right.
Paris - Liked him.
Kim - Goody two shoes
Torres - Meh.
Seven - Great character but overused, along with anything Borg.
Doctor - Loved him
Neelix - ....
Kes - Thank God she had the lifetime of a dog..

Janeway- head strong, stubborn & trigger happy (just wath the delta quadrant needed)
Chakotay- a terrible boring character! How the hell did a hippy get captain of a maquais vessel! All he ever wanted to do was make friends and visit ghosts and his chakra!!!
Tuvok- as the first Vulcan to play a main part since TOS i thought he was great, playe on Vulcan weaknesses a bit too much though, and not half enough on their strenghts
Paris- Great character, could have been a bit more aggressive though
Kim- he was the perfect side-kick to Paris, but I think as he was so desperate to get home, killing him off on the last episode would have made the whole show! Sounds harsh, but it would have been good
Torres- Well come on, she is the first Klingon (yes I know half human) but she is the first Klingon female that you wouldn't throw out of bed for farting!!! So for that she gets a thumbs up... Among other things
Seven- This should never ever ever ever ever ever have happened and her Borg kiddies who joined them, a joke!!! They could have made up for it by having her betray Voyager
Doctor- What a classic character, outstanding, really made the show... Although the whole fight for holographic rights etc, rubbish!!!
Neelix- Too god dam annoying, and a 'Morale Officer' what a joke or an even bigger joke when he was at tactical briefings! Yes I know he knew the species that Janeway wasn't aware of, but couldn't he just have been consulted by her after the meeting or before or something... Terribly annoying!
Kes- I couldn't waitfor that b1tch to die! God she was the worst Star Trek character ever! Even when she came back in season 4? I think? God she was even terrible as a baddie!!!
Ceska- She wasn't bad, didn't like the whole, bumping uglies with a kazon thing going on though!
Naoimi Wildman- I'd have shot her out a torpedo tube straight at the Vidians

And the Q episodes, they were great! I nearly collapsed when I saw Riker in the briefing room! (or was it the ready room?)
The Delta Flyer, now how they built it is a bit suss but come on its a fantastic space hotrod like!

Voyager will always remain my favourite anyway

Goldstein

IvySlayer wrote: »

Voyager should of been a battered ship, barely held together ala Year of Hell. How could DS9 have so many great characters and Voyager so few?

Janeway - Insufferable at times.
Chakotay - Blargh.
Tuvok - He was all right.
Paris - Liked him.
Kim - Goody two shoes
Torres - Meh.
Seven - Great character but overused, along with anything Borg.
Doctor - Loved him
Neelix - ....
Kes - Thank God she had the lifetime of a dog..

I think some of it is down to most of DS9's best and most interesting characters hailing from it's secondary cast - Garak, Dukat, Weyoun, Sloan, Nog, Gowron, Martok etc whereas Voyager didn't really have a secondary cast. (Reg/Deanna/Borg Queen cameros aside)

Indricotherium

Goldstein wrote: »

IvySlayer wrote: »

Voyager should of been a battered ship, barely held together ala Year of Hell. How could DS9 have so many great characters and Voyager so few?

Janeway - Insufferable at times.
Chakotay - Blargh.
Tuvok - He was all right.
Paris - Liked him.
Kim - Goody two shoes
Torres - Meh.
Seven - Great character but overused, along with anything Borg.
Doctor - Loved him
Neelix - ....
Kes - Thank God she had the lifetime of a dog..

I think some of it is down to most of DS9's best and most interesting characters hailing from it's secondary cast - Garak, Dukat, Weyoun, Sloan, Nog, Gowron, Martok etc whereas Voyager didn't really have a secondary cast. (Reg/Deanna/Borg Queen cameros aside)

100%

Ds9 hinted at a rich and full galaxy that was teeming with people able to look after their own interests and didn't need the cast of the series to arrive and save them from whatever catastrophe they had managed to engineer for themselves.

Indricotherium

Goldstein wrote: »

IvySlayer wrote: »

Voyager should of been a battered ship, barely held together ala Year of Hell. How could DS9 have so many great characters and Voyager so few?

Janeway - Insufferable at times.
Chakotay - Blargh.
Tuvok - He was all right.
Paris - Liked him.
Kim - Goody two shoes
Torres - Meh.
Seven - Great character but overused, along with anything Borg.
Doctor - Loved him
Neelix - ....
Kes - Thank God she had the lifetime of a dog..

I think some of it is down to most of DS9's best and most interesting characters hailing from it's secondary cast - Garak, Dukat, Weyoun, Sloan, Nog, Gowron, Martok etc whereas Voyager didn't really have a secondary cast. (Reg/Deanna/Borg Queen cameros aside)

100%

Ds9 hinted at a rich and full galaxy that was teeming with people able to look after their own interests and didn't need the cast of the series to arrive and save them from whatever catastrophe they had managed to engineer for themselves.

IvySlayer

TNG set the standard, DS9 came from it but actually managed to hold its own and not live in TNGs shadow.

This is were Voyager failed. They had to use the Borg as a lifeline to rescue the series.

Indricotherium

IvySlayer wrote: »

TNG set the standard, DS9 came from it but actually managed to hold its own and not live in TNGs shadow.

This is were Voyager failed. They had to use the Borg as a lifeline to rescue the series.

Voyager suffered most due to its awful characters.

Theres not a decent one in the bunch.

GreenWolfe

Indricotherium wrote: »

Voyager suffered most due to its awful characters.

Theres not a decent one in the bunch.

With the exception of the Doctor, of course. And possibly Tuvok. Other than those two no other character in Voyager is memorable - well, not for good reasons in any case.

JBnaglfar

The Doctor was easily the best character on Voyager. Anyone else, I either hated (Janeway, Neelix) or did not care about them at all (Chakotay, Tuvok). I'm not sure which is worse.

Indricotherium

Enterprise had a great set of characters with potential for some real personality clashes, but it fizzled out due to the awful first 2 series.

The xindi??? Who in the hell thought of that????

Towards the end it got really good, exploring earths first dealings with the Romulans, the mirror universe and even the Borg.

What a missed opportunity.

Also I think a lot the porthos stories were unused Wesley crusher stories from TnG.

norrie rugger

Indricotherium wrote: »

Enterprise had a great set of characters with potential for some real personality clashes, but it fizzled out due to the awful first 2 series.

The xindi??? Who in the hell thought of that????

Towards the end it got really good, exploring earths first dealings with the Romulans, the mirror universe and even the Borg.

What a missed opportunity.

Also I think a lot the porthos stories were unused Wesley crusher stories from TnG.

The Xindii were fine, the Suliban on the other hand

Goldstein

Just finished re-watching the Sloan trilogy last night. Each one an absolutely superbly conceived, written and acted episode. William Sadler is simply outstanding - it's such a shame he wasn't featured a hell of a lot more. The writing constantly keeps you rivitted but also off balance as you never really know how things will turn out or what twist is going to develop next - they definitely lean more to DS9's darker far more interesting side richly dense with the moral ambiguity that defines DS9 and indeed all of Star Trek at its finest.

• Inquisition
• Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
• Extreme Measures

A small screen Star Trek: Section 31 adaptation would have had mouth-watering potential.

downwithpeace

Section 31 had so much potential but the TV shows seemed content in keeping it more secretive then playing around with it, shame really.

Goldstein

downwithpeace wrote: »

Section 31 had so much potential but the TV shows seemed content in keeping it more secretive then playing around with it, shame really.

Ya, it's like they knew they were onto something cool and they didn't want to "do a Borg" on it so were hesitant to try to feature Section 31 too often in case they decloaked some of the mystery. Can't blame them and maybe those 3x eps shine all the brighter for their rarity but I think the crew and writers they had then were good enough to pull it off if they had wanted to.

So many possibilities too - S31 could have secret ships noone knows about like the Tal Shiar did, advanced tech, they could have agents embedded literally anywhere - it's so exciting from a writing/show building perspective. You could base episodes/arcs on Utopia Planetia, Tycho city, even throughout all the core Federation homeworlds. Stage your intriguing DS9-eske plotlines in the places we've always heard and wondered about but never really seen. Man, it could have been great.

IvySlayer

Maybe Section 31 could have had a ship with that cloaking device they had in TNG?

I would love to have Sloan and Sisko arguing morals and then Sloan playing the Force-The-Romulans-Into-The-War card whenver Sisko thinks Sloan done something wrong.

Sonics2k

I'm going to admit it outright.

I did not like Enterprise. The characters either annoyed me, or held no interest. The plots were quite dull, and quite a few twists offended my inner trekkie.

I think I got about halfway through Season 2 before I eventually gave up.