General Star Trek thread

Myrddin

Enterprise [extended]

Enterprise [seasons 3 & 4]

Enterprise Alt Universe Theme

TOS [all seasons]

TNG [season 1-3?]

TNG [season 4 onwards?]

DS9 [season 1-3]

DS9 [season 4-7]

Voyager [all seasons I think]

Cookie_Monster

EnterNow wrote: »

I thought Archer was grand, a real explorer in the first two seasons. They made him grittier though for seasons 3 & 4 but I never got why people didn't like him

Cos he was always just a bit of a whiney do gooder who went out of his way to be extra extra nice

EnterNow wrote: »

Also, the intro sequence to the alternate universe two parter was epic

Everything about those episodes was epic!

norrie rugger

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Everything about those episodes was epic!

Except Alternate Archer and his cheek puffing every word

Myrddin

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Cos he was always just a bit of a whiney do gooder who went out of his way to be extra extra nice

To me though that fit in with someone exploring space for the first time, your going to be a do-gooder, your going to try your hardest to be nice etc. I dunno, the character to me seemed to be what a first explorer would be like.

Everything about those episodes was epic!

We finally found something to agree on!!

norrie rugger wrote: »

Except Alternate Archer and his cheek puffing every word

What is this cheek puffing thing?? I've heard it mentioned a few times

downwithpeace

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

i actually really liked the theme song,about the opnly thing i did like about enterprise
i preferred the original version.. they changed it after a few eps didnt they?

Changed to reflect the new title, Enterprise to Star Trek Enterprise, didn't help, series was fine but that intro was beyond cr*p, Russians were none to pleased about it either.

I remember listening to two friends argue about Andromeda being the new Star Trek after one of them picked up on the name "Roddenberry" towards the end of the credits, then when Enterprise finally aired the same two had another argument claiming it was the other that called Andromeda the new Star trek.

norrie rugger

EnterNow wrote: »

What is this cheek puffing thing?? I've heard it mentioned a few times

Every word/sentance is forced, trying to make it all authorative/menacing.
All it does is slow down his speech and make his cheeks puff out a lot as he is forcing a lot of air out

ItHurtsWhenIP

EnterNow wrote: »

TOS [all seasons]

I hate to get all nit-picky, but I have been and always will be ... a TOS fan. Season 1 had a different colour scheme:

though I do like all the modern incarnations to some degree or other.

Myrddin

I tip my hat good sir, your indeed correct

Kiith

Music wise, i still think DS9 had the best into. Brilliant piece. TNG is my favourite of the lot though, if only for nostalgia sakes.

Cool remake of the original intro here. No youtube link to embed i'm afraid.

http://vimeo.com/44073527

IvySlayer

DS9 changed it's theme a bit from Season 3 onwards? Prefer the older one.

TNGs the best though...There's a guy who remixed some

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HzvAlEFTVU

Beefy78

DS9 changed at the start of season four. I really liked the change. The tweaked music made the show sound a bit livelier and the shots of the station had so much more going on relfecting the fact that the station had gone from a forgotten Cardassian outpost at the arse-end of space to being a busy station in one of the most important corners of the Quadrant.

Kiith

Beefy78 wrote: »

DS9 changed at the start of season four. I really liked the change. The tweaked music made the show sound a bit livelier and the shots of the station had so much more going on relfecting the fact that the station had gone from a forgotten Cardassian outpost at the arse-end of space to being a busy station in one of the most important corners of the Quadrant.

Plus, the Defiant.

Goldstein

Kiith wrote: »

Plus, the Defiant.

Yip, the Defiant was a game changer. Remember jaw dropping when it decloaked in ep 1 of S3.

Also, Worf.

Sonics2k

It always amazed me that adding that heavy sound at the start of the DS9 credits did so much for the overall theme.

IvySlayer

Here's a question to conisder...The Doctor in Voyager. Was he sentient or just a really good computer program? I'm 50-50 on this.

downwithpeace

IvySlayer wrote: »

Here's a question to conisder...The Doctor in Voyager. Was he sentient or just a really good computer program? I'm 50-50 on this.

Voyager tried to work on that question and it made for very good episodes but I never fully bought in to it, like you I'm, 50/50.

An example episode is the one where he returns to cure his creator, he shows a desire to care for the man but at the same time he was programmed to do that.

GreenWolfe

downwithpeace wrote: »

Voyager tried to work on that question and it made for very good episodes but I never fully bought in to it, like you I'm, 50/50.

An example episode is the one where he returns to cure his creator, he shows a desire to care for the man but at the same time he was programmed to do that.

It wasn't just his ethical programming; he was also upset to have found out that all of the other EMH Mk I's were reassigned to clean waste transfer barges.

He desired to prove himself to others - seems to me like the doctor went beyond being programmed to do an okay job.

downwithpeace

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

It wasn't just his ethical programming; he was also upset to have found out that all of the other EMH Mk I's were reassigned to clean waste transfer barges.

He desired to prove himself to others - seems to me like the doctor went beyond being programmed to do an okay job.

I don't recall The Doctor being upset about that but the creator Dr Zimmerman was, he was embarrassed that his creation with his likeness was now scrubbing waste.

He did try to prove himself, even improve himself, but given he was made in the image of humans it could be said the computer took the next logical step and tried to imitate humans.

Another bit to the 50/50 is him giving himself a name, bad joke on the writers part, and taking a wife.

IvySlayer

I think he only behaves, how he's programmed too.

Look how Janeway treated him. In Scorpion she said if they Borg tried to get the nanoprobe information from the Doctor, she'd delete him.

Latent Image, Flesh and Blood etc

IMO he's no more sentient than Vic Fontaine is. Everything he 'feels' is an illusion, a computer program.

Kirby

Definitely sentient. Do you not remember the episode where he nearly went insane? You listed latent image so you should.

Two ensigns injured in an explosion. One was a random red shirt and one was Harry Kim. Identical injuries and he could only save one and he saved Harry because he was his friend.

This went against his programming and he struggled with his decision until he eventually overcame it.

That would definitely support the idea that he was more than just a computer program. He wasn't programmed for favourtism.

downwithpeace

Kirby wrote: »

Definitely sentient. Do you not remember the episode where he nearly went insane? You listed latent image so you should.

Two ensigns injured in an explosion. One was a random red shirt and one was Harry Kim. Identical injuries and he could only save one and he saved Harry because he was his friend.

This went against his programming and he struggled with his decision until he eventually overcame it.

That would definitely support the idea that he was more than just a computer program. He wasn't programmed for favourtism.

Terrible episode, the doctor's programming couldn't get over the fact he picked someone he had more of a connection with which lead to his memory being erased yet the episode finishes with him going through the same issues.

That episode has always annoyed me, it doesn't explain anything.

Kirby

downwithpeace wrote: »

Terrible episode, the doctor's programming couldn't get over the fact he picked someone he had more of a connection with which lead to his memory being erased yet the episode finishes with him going through the same issues.

That episode has always annoyed me, it doesn't explain anything.

That was kind of the point though. Computers don't have feelings. Yet he was ruled by his. It proved he had evolved beyond a mere machine. Soul-like qualities. His program wasn't imitating grief as IvySlayer would say......because he did something that went against what his program aloud him to do.

The episode also highlighted how the crew changed their attitude towards him. Think about it.

He makes that decision and then goes a bit mad. The decision he made had no logic to it.....it was based on emotion. Emotion he shouldn't have. The crew think, "Oh, the program is broken. We better erase the broken bits to fix him". So the crew erase his memories. But that didn't work and he kept remembering. So they ended up helping him through it by supporting him......like you would a real person after a traumatic event. And he eventually worked it out in his own mind and got over it. Machines don't do that.

I quite liked the episode to be honest. I loved the fact that it wasn't wrapped up in a neat little bow. He was still struggling with it at the end of the episode. Lots of the episodes narrative of voyager talked about how he was a "real boy"......but that was the episode that really highlighted it. If you rewatch it now I think you will appreciate it more.

downwithpeace

Kirby wrote: »

That was kind of the point though. Computers don't have feelings. Yet he was ruled by his. It proved he had evolved beyond a mere machine. Soul-like qualities. His program wasn't imitating grief as IvySlayer would say......because he did something that went against what his program aloud him to do.

The episode also highlighted how the crew changed their attitude towards him. Think about it.

He makes that decision and then goes a bit mad. The decision he made had no logic to it.....it was based on emotion. Emotion he shouldn't have. The crew think, "Oh, the program is broken. We better erase the broken bits to fix him". So the crew erase his memories. But that didn't work and he kept remembering. So they ended up helping him through it by supporting him......like you would a real person after a traumatic event. And he eventually worked it out in his own mind and got over it. Machines don't do that.

I quite liked the episode to be honest. I loved the fact that it wasn't wrapped up in a neat little bow. He was still struggling with it at the end of the episode. Lots of the episodes narrative of voyager talked about how he was a "real boy"......but that was the episode that really highlighted it. If you rewatch it now I think you will appreciate it more.

I watched it again this morning and it still annoyed me, I don't like how it lays out the issue of having to wipe his memory only for him to suddenly be evolved enough to get over it.

There's not much involving the crew accepting him more bar Seven and Janeway but Seven (And Kes) always had more of an acceptance of the doctor. The second time he went off on his rant Torres put it down to the same issues that first caused it, feedback loop from added subroutines, while Janeway said it was a conflict between what he was and what he had become, what he had become was the added subroutines.


I'll probably never make up my mind on the doctor, there's stuff that would swing it either way for me but I can understand why Voyager crew or viewers see him as sentient.

IvySlayer

The Doctor expanded his program a lot. He added friendship/relationship subroutines, how'd we know it just isn't a glitch? Removing his files did solve the problem after all.

Voyager did address something in Endgame, he eventually got married didn't he? So holograms must have gained rights. Then Janeway nuked that future :pac:

downwithpeace

IvySlayer wrote: »

Voyager did address something in Endgame, he eventually got married didn't he? So holograms must have gained rights. Then Janeway nuked that future :pac:

Married and took the name Joe.
They covered part of the hologram rights in the episode where the doctor had his book published before he had edited to reflect the crews concerns.

IvySlayer

There was an episode of TNG on Atlantic, turned out to be The Drumhead. Love that episode. My only one criticism is Picard allowing it to go as far as it did. Thinking how other captains would've reacted to that bitch.

Kirk - Would have slept with her
Picard - Used logic and reasoning until she went beserk
Sisko - Would have punched her in the face
Janeway - Nagged her off the ship

IvySlayer

downwithpeace wrote: »

Married and took the name Joe.
They covered part of the hologram rights in the episode where the doctor had his book published before he had edited to reflect the crews concerns.

The judge ruled he had rights over his own creations. I believe he passed the question of holograms rights to the next court higher up.

Kirby

IvySlayer wrote: »

Sisko - Would have punched her in the face

Na I doubt that. I would say two options for what Sisko would do.

Option 1 : Kidnap her and force her to watch a game of baseball on the holodeck, and lecture her on the error of her ways on the bleachers........

Option 2 : Ask Garak for help in faking a recording where it was really HER that caused the explosion! Something tells me he could live with it.

downwithpeace

IvySlayer wrote: »

The judge ruled he had rights over his own creations. I believe he passed the question of holograms rights to the next court higher up.

Yes it only covered part of hologram rights in that he was considered an artist and as such had the rights to his creations, episode was similar to that of TNG Measure of a Man but done in a way as not to try and over shadow it.

downwithpeace

Kirby wrote: »

Option 2 : Ask Garak for help in faking a recording where it was really HER that caused the explosion! Something tells me he could live with it.

Sisko and Garak, when they come together watch out universe.