LED lighting General discussion, read here before posting a question.

polik

vibe666 wrote: »

then you have my apologies.

just out of curiosity, in your experience what other brands of LED bulbs would you recommend?

Sorry for coming back so late ...

vibe666 it's depend what you asking for: quality, performance, application, price ...

I've being on Energy Show in RDS last week and few new players show-up on market.

Looking forward to track new products release at the Light+Building Expo in Frankfurt Germany. I wish to be there.

Hellrazer

Here goes.I read the first post by the way and Im hoping that someone can give me a bit of advice.

My kitchen has 8 50 watt mr 16 12 volt downlighters in it that are on approximately 8-10 hours a day as the kitchen is North Facing and can be quite dark from afternoon onwards.

Seems to me that its costing a fortune to run these for that long.

Excues me if Im wrong but for every 2.5 hours Im using one unit of Electricity
8*50= 400 x2.5 = 1kw.

At 10 hours a day Im using 3-4 units a day.Over a 2 monthly bill thats 240 units.Last bill I used only 750 odd units so these lights alone account for one third of my usage.

So I need to change to leds.

I cant get at the drivers in the ceiling area as the upstairs has solid wooden flooring that Im not really too pushed on taking up and Ive tried to get the drivers from below.

So can anyone recommend a direct 12 50watt led mr 16 replacement led bulb??

Price really isnt an issue as I can save potentially more over a longer period by switching now and making the investment upfront.

Im hoping that my driver will run them.If not Im going to have to try remove the driver and go 220volt.

Thanks.

pipsdad

Your calculation is just about spot on, checked with the esb calc https://www.electricireland.ie/ei/residential-energy-services/reduce-your-costs/appliance_calc/appliance_calculator.jsp?query=applianceTypeLight

Edthehead

You can get MR16 led lamps, the problem you may face is whether the existing transformers will drive the Led's. A lot of transformers have a min and max wattage rating on them, something like 16 - 60watts, led being only 3 to 4watts are unlikely to run on these transformers. You could go away and get one led lamp and try it in each fitting to see if it works. The transformers are usually connected to the MR16 lamp holders by a short piece of wire, so you should be able to pull the transformer down through the hole cut out for the fitting. Once down you can disconnect the transformer and replace it with a GU10 lampholder (cost only a couple of Euros from any electrical wholesaler) Check your existing fittings as some MR16 fittings dont have enough room for the larger lamp holder you find on GU10's.

Hellrazer

Edthehead wrote: »

You can get MR16 led lamps, the problem you may face is whether the existing transformers will drive the Led's. A lot of transformers have a min and max wattage rating on them, something like 16 - 60watts, led being only 3 to 4watts are unlikely to run on these transformers. You could go away and get one led lamp and try it in each fitting to see if it works. The transformers are usually connected to the MR16 lamp holders by a short piece of wire, so you should be able to pull the transformer down through the hole cut out for the fitting. Once down you can disconnect the transformer and replace it with a GU10 lampholder (cost only a couple of Euros from any electrical wholesaler) Check your existing fittings as some MR16 fittings dont have enough room for the larger lamp holder you find on GU10's.

The problem I have is that I reckon there are only 2 drivers driving the 8 lamps.When I pull the lamp fittings down they are connected by ordinary 2 core cable to the mr 16 fitting--I can hear what I think are the transformers bouncing around when I jiggle the cable but I just cant reach them--I can only hear two though.
I reckon that the two transformers are in the centre of the room driving 4 lamps each or there may possible be a third or fourth that I just can find.

If I pull all the wires out I`ll never get them back up there..Btw these are new recessed lights that I replaced.They came with gu10 and mr 16 bulb fittings.The idea was to do away with the transformers and only use gu10 in led but with this problem gettiting the transformers out I think Im going to be limited to 12v.

pipsdad

Hellrazer wrote: »

The problem I have is that I reckon there are only 2 drivers driving the 8 lamps.When I pull the lamp fittings down they are connected by ordinary 2 core cable to the mr 16 fitting--I can hear what I think are the transformers bouncing around when I jiggle the cable but I just cant reach them--I can only hear two though.
I reckon that the two transformers are in the centre of the room driving 4 lamps each or there may possible be a third or fourth that I just can find.

If I pull all the wires out I`ll never get them back up there..Btw these are new recessed lights that I replaced.They came with gu10 and mr 16 bulb fittings.The idea was to do away with the transformers and only use gu10 in led but with this problem gettiting the transformers out I think Im going to be limited to 12v.

Then the only way to tell is to get a MR16 LED and try it, but you need to remove all the halogens and just leave the LED in to see if the traffos will operate the much reduced load.

freddyuk

How about if you attach cord to each cable end for each lamp and disconnect from the lamp units. You should be able to pull enough cable through one of the holes to get to the end with the traf and then repull cables back through the holes and fit individual drivers as required. I would imaging there must be enough slack to reach one of the holes as good electricians leave plenty of slack ?? Should be a Krypton Factor game!
You will need a driver to the match the LED's or risk wasting your savings by stressing the LED's.

Stoner

also if you have one transformer for 4-8 lamps it may actually suit you as the combined loading of the lamps could move you within the working parameters of the transformer.

Bigcheeze

Very useful thread.

Are the dimmable 4w Philips LED's also 8.50 ex vat ?

The Philips ones seem to give 36 degrees of light. Does this mean you have dark areas on the floor and walls if the lights are not placed closely together ?

paddy147

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Very useful thread.

Are the dimmable 4w Philips LED's also 8.50 ex vat ?

The Philips ones seem to give 36 degrees of light. Does this mean you have dark areas on the floor and walls if the lights are not placed closely together ?

Yep...8 euro 50 cents excluding VAT.

40 degree beam/angle of light and dimmable (with certain dimmers)

My downlights are about 1.1 meters apart from each other and light coverage is perfect for me and my family.:)

vibe666

mine are about the same and there is plenty of light, i'd say that you wouldn't want more even though they are in the kitchen/dining area. plenty of light off them.

unfortunately my dimmers only dim them about 5% so i've had to resort to leaving in a single halogen in each loop of 7 spots to fix the issue until i can get new dimmers that work properly with them.

other than that i'm very happy, they're already saving me a fortune in electricity and will have paid for themselves in a few months, although possibly longer now we're (thankfully) getting into the longer daylight hours.

vibe666

jebus, that's not good, but not entirely unexpected. those 50w halogens get wickedly hot when used for long periods.

mine were off for 30 mins before i changed them for the LED's in the kitchen and dining room, but i still had trouble touching them to take them out as they were still really hot.

by comparison, i can leave the LED's on for a couple of hours and still touch them with the back of my hand and hardly feel anything except the tiniest bit of warmth, so i'm a happy camper for that alone if nothing else.

pipsdad

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Thanks. Glad to be getting rid of Halogens. Getting rewire done and this is what was pulled out of the ceiling today, completely surrounded by insulation:

:eek:omg... And there it is, a convincing argument to switch to LED..

vibe666

phillips just announced a new range of (up to) 100w equiv. 23w LED bulbs: http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/128669-philips-new-100w-equivalent-led-bulb-runs-on-just-23w

While it’s not the first 100W-equivalent LED bulb to be produced, the new AmbientLED will be an early release into this segment of the market and it marks the clearing of a major hurdle for the company. One of the limits to LED bulb adoption has been the lack of availability of high lumen bulbs — it’s easy enough for consumers to replace a 40W or 60W bulb with an LED-powered model, but replacing a 75W or 100W incandescent with an efficient light source still requires a CFL. With this release Philips will have 40-, 60-, 75-, and 100W-equivalent LED bulbs available.

The bulb will be dimmable and the color temperature will be 2700K (warm white), making it a reasonable choice for household lighting. The color accuracy (rated by the color rendering index, or CRI) will be 80, which is a reasonable number, but not particularly high. It would be fine for general use but too low for times when high color accuracy is needed, as in an art gallery or photography studio. This is the same CRI as the company’s popular 60W AmbientLED, so they likely share a phosphor material and LED setup, while the L Prize winner has some subtle tweaks to it. For example, it uses a mixture of red and blue LEDs, as opposed to just blue ones.

paddy147

Bye bye 11watt CFLs and hello 3watt LED B22 (bayonette) bulbs.

Very happy with these and my daughter thinks they look like spaceships.:D

The high ceiling light has the same LED lightbulb in it,just that this is a 6 watt LED E27 (screw in) bulb in it.

The entire house internally and externally (all downlights are Philips Master 3 watt) is now LED,even the porch lights.

vibe666

which ones did you get?

Stoner

I like the Beghelli LEDLite range of this lamp type, nice and tidy, not that readily here though.

paddy147

vibe666 wrote: »

which ones did you get?

Tey are made by a company called "Greenlamp" and they are around 10 euro a bulb.

fred funk }{

Anyone know what type of dimmer is required for the dimmable LED's?

pipsdad

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Anyone know what type of dimmer is required for the dimmable LED's?

A trailing edge dimmer switch.

fred funk }{

pipsdad wrote: »

A trailing edge dimmer switch.

Thanks for that. What effect would a different type of dinner have on the lights?

pipsdad

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Thanks for that. What effect would a different type of dinner have on the lights?

Non trailing edge dimmers 'may' not operate LED or have limited dimming 'smoothness' or make the LED flash.

vibe666

as an example, mine only dim about 5% because they are the wrong sort of dimmer.

i really should get proper dimmers for them.

fred funk }{

Thanks lads. I did some lights over the weekend and they didn't really dim that much. Thanks for the info.

bargain hunt

Building a bungalow and want to fit fit halogen downlights but was told I would loose alot of airtightness.The lighting shop said i could put a plaster board box around them over the joices and seal the edges with silicin.Wonderin is this safe as halogens build up alot of heat.I know i could go with led's but have heared the light from them aren't as good,and are alot more expensive.Anyone have any ideas to make downlights airtight safely.Any help would be appreciated.

WhatNowForUs?

bargain hunt wrote: »

Building a bungalow and want to fit fit halogen downlights but was told I would loose alot of airtightness.The lighting shop said i could put a plaster board box around them over the joices and seal the edges with silicin.Wonderin is this safe as halogens build up alot of heat.I know i could go with led's but have heared the light from them aren't as good,and are alot more expensive.Anyone have any ideas to make downlights airtight safely.Any help would be appreciated.

LED lights are just as good now a days. You will save a lot of money in the long term depending on.the amount you plan to use.

Davy

Madness not to go the Led route. And you dont need to botch job the fittings, you can them fire rated/air tight. You need a good electrician rather than someone in a shop

Do-more

See here for previous discussion.

bargain hunt

Well,is it ok to cover led's this way or even with a metel pot to keep the house airtight?

DOCARCH

I wouldn't seal around them - you'll find yourself replacing the bulbs every couple of weeks as they will blow due to overheating (plus potential fire risk!).

If you're worried about airtightness your obviously worried about heat loss/energy efficiency? Why waste all that energy lighting halogen bulbs?

As above, I'd suggest going the LED route - you'll also get a better (or it will halp you get a better) BER rating.