"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

AlekSmart

TheBandicoot wrote: »

So you can apply period tickets to the Leap for BE? Cool, when is that functionality coming to the other modes? My brother recently started college and was very confused he couldn't just load his monthly student bus ticket onto his student travel/Leap card.

As a possible hint.....see how easy it currently is to source a 30 Day Student Rambler..?

Stevek101

Will we see all Ramblers migrate together? Any more info on the cap? Surely it'll be launching soon!

AngryLips

Stevek101 wrote: »

Will we see all Ramblers migrate together? Any more info on the cap? Surely it'll be launching soon!

I really wish they would get their finger out with the DB cap. Let's face it, for Luas and IE there just isn't enough of a network effect for the capping they've introduced for those two services to be of much use. DB on the other hand is a different story...

Victor

"Greater Dublin Area" has the specific meaning of Dublin, Wicklow, Kildare and Meath. In the context of Bus Éireann services, it makes sense to include the entirety of the routes that serve these areas, as much as is possible.

The Dublin Bus area is the "Short Hop Zone", a completely different meaning.

Similarly, "Metropolitan Area" is the million of so people out to Swords, Bray and Leixlip.

n0brain3r wrote: »

Any plans for IE to extend the range of Leap?

The number of stations won't be increased immediately, but additional functions may be added. Stations out to Kildare and Drogheda and at some other locations are receiving ticket barriers, as have some stations in Cork. Revenue protection is the primary objective, but Leap may follow.

TheBandicoot wrote: »

So you can apply period tickets to the Leap for BE? Cool, when is that functionality coming to the other modes?

It has been happening for annual adult ticket holders since 1 October. This will gradually filter down to other products.

Stevek101 wrote: »

Will we see all Ramblers migrate together? Any more info on the cap? Surely it'll be launching soon!

I don't think we will necessarily see them all migrate together. It will start with the annual then monthly tickets. The caps are likely to run in parallel with the Ramblers for some time.

AngryLips wrote: »

I really wish they would get their finger out with the DB cap. Let's face it, for Luas and IE there just isn't enough of a network effect for the capping they've introduced for those two services to be of much use. DB on the other hand is a different story...

Dublin Bus capping will shortly, details to be announced. Already the message that users are getting has been changed from "Cap €10,000" to "Cap €15".

However, it won't really become 'awesome' until there is a multi-operator cap.

Victor

As you can see form the map, the zones bear little relationship to the existing ones. However, is suspect some of the thinking stems from the old short hop, medium hop and giant hop zones. Does anyone have that map to hand?

For the moment, zones are approximately.

Colour Distances Width
Black 0-20km 20km (No BÉ services)
Red 20-30km 10km
Green 30-40km 10km
Blue 40-60km 20km
Yellow 60-90km 30km
Orange 90-130km 40km

Portlaoise, Dunleer and Dundalk have oddly low single fares, presumably due to competition.

ailbheg

lxflyer wrote: »

Not for the first time, you are completely misreading the statement and being far too narrow in your interpretation.

BE/NTA are using the term "Greater Dublin Area" in the widest possible sense to mean all of the zones - zones 1-6. That much is clear from the list of routes that it can be used on.

It does not apply to just zone 1. It covers zones 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. I merely listed how far on each route zone 1 covers in post #1851 - you listed only 3 routes.

It covers EVERY route in post #1847 in their entirety.

I don't know how much clearer they could put it.

So yes, you can now use LEAP to get as far as Cavan, Tullamore, Longford etc. using Leap on the routes listed above.

While this is what the website implies, today I was told by a driver that he was told by an inspector that the only routes on which it is in operation are the 103, 105 and 133. This is despite purchasing a day ticket for the Green Zone on that route last Thursday. However, today the machine would not allow purchase of the ticket, but that may have been because the driver hadn't been trained in the sale of the tickets, so wasn't sure what to do.

When I was getting off the bus, he told me that he had had a look before departure from Connolly, he had checked the website, and that what I had been saying was right according to it, so he would look into it, and have a chat to the driver who had managed to put a ticket on my leap card to see what was going on.

With a bit of luck I'll be able to find out tomorrow what's going on.

LXFlyer

ailbheg wrote: »

While this is what the website implies, today I was told by a driver that he was told by an inspector that the only routes on which it is in operation are the 103, 105 and 133. This is despite purchasing a day ticket for the Green Zone on that route last Thursday. However, today the machine would not allow purchase of the ticket, but that may have been because the driver hadn't been trained in the sale of the tickets, so wasn't sure what to do.

When I was getting off the bus, he told me that he had had a look before departure from Connolly, he had checked the website, and that what I had been saying was right according to it, so he would look into it, and have a chat to the driver who had managed to put a ticket on my leap card to see what was going on.

With a bit of luck I'll be able to find out tomorrow what's going on.

I think it's more a case of the driver not knowing.

It is most definitely supposed to be on all of those routes listed.

ailbheg

lxflyer wrote: »

I think it's more a case of the driver not knowing.

It is most definitely supposed to be on all of those routes listed.

He told me he asked the inspector for his route and was told it was only the three mentioned above.

Supposed to be doesn't necessarily mean actually is. There has obviously been a breakdown in communication somewhere.

Polar101

Victor wrote: »

Dublin Bus capping will shortly, details to be announced. Already the message that users are getting has been changed from "Cap €10,000" to "Cap €15".

a €15 Dublin Bus cap wouldn't make a lot of sense, since the Rambler tickets cost in the region of €5 a day. Or am I missing something here?

markpb

Polar101 wrote: »

a €15 Dublin Bus cap wouldn't make a lot of sense, since the Rambler tickets cost in the region of €5 a day. Or am I missing something here?

It's still in test so I assume the figure is kept artificially high to stop normal people hitting it.

AlekSmart

Polar101 wrote: »

a €15 Dublin Bus cap wouldn't make a lot of sense, since the Rambler tickets cost in the region of €5 a day. Or am I missing something here?

A potentially strong hint is the current cost of a One Day Rambler...:)

This would reduce the number of printed ticket types required, amongst other things.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

LXFlyer

Yes it can.

languagenerd

AngryLips wrote: »

I really wish they would get their finger out with the DB cap. Let's face it, for Luas and IE there just isn't enough of a network effect for the capping they've introduced for those two services to be of much use. DB on the other hand is a different story...

I dunno, the Luas cap comes in handy when you don't know in advance how many times you'll be on the Luas each day/week. Luas weekly tickets are consecutive (unlike DB), so there's no point buying it if you don't know in advance if you're using it enough days for it to be worth it. With the cap, you don't pay more than the cost of a weekly ticket (Monday to Sunday) without having to pay upfront.

It'd be great if they made a multi-operator cap... though I can't see that happening any time soon.

lucernarian

Victor wrote: »

As you can see form the map, the zones bear little relationship to the existing ones. however, is suspect some of the thinking stems from the old short hop, medium hop and giant hop zones. Does anyone have that map to hand?

For the moment, zones are approximately.

Colour Distances Width
Black 0-20km 20km (No BÉ services)
Red 20-30km 10km
Green 30-40km 10km
Blue 40-60km 20km
Yellow 60-90km 30km
Orange 90-130km 40km
Portlaoise, Dunleer and Dundalk have oddly low single fares, presumably due to competition.

What sort of competition exists in Dunleer? Bus Eireann's route 100 serves there as does the 100X in evenings and nights.

Victor

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

What sort of competition exists in Dunleer? Bus Eireann's route 100 serves there as does the 100X in evenings and nights.

Ah, I though Matthews stopped there.

lucernarian

Victor wrote: »

Ah, I though Matthews stopped there.

It stops in Monasterboice only, between Drogheda and Dundalk.

WilburWhately

... have been fighting running battle with BE drivers trying to get them to accept the leap card on one of the commuter routes for the past week. One driver just flat out refused to take it but let me on anyway (only after a confrontation of course); got into a stand-off with another and told him straight up out i wasn't getting off the bus - the fact he couldn't process the card wasn't my problem.. rang the complaints line and they seemed as exasperated as me at all of this - was told the drivers had been trained but that they might need a 'refresher' course - obviously there's a legacy of bad industrial relations in the background here but still, lots of inflexibility and the standard surliness at the front line...

ailbheg

WilburWhately wrote: »

... have been fighting running battle with BE drivers trying to get them to accept the leap card on one of the commuter routes for the past week. One driver just flat out refused to take it but let me on anyway (only after a confrontation of course); got into a stand-off with another and told him straight up out i wasn't getting off the bus - the fact he couldn't process the card wasn't my problem.. rang the complaints line and they seemed as exasperated as me at all of this - was told the drivers had been trained but that they might need a 'refresher' course - obviously there's a legacy of bad industrial relations in the background here but still, lots of inflexibility and the standard surliness at the front line...

Did he not have his sheet of instructions? The drivers on my route appear to have been given them

A lot of them don't know what the story is, I've seen someone try to use a student leap, which currently can't be used according to the website.

WilburWhately

...no instruction sheet - and no interest in accepting the Leap card ...

ailbheg

That's unacceptable. In that situation I'd ask to see the inspector.

Did customer care take details of the journey? When I rang they asked for the dates and times, so they could bring the drivers in for training.

AlekSmart

WilburWhately wrote: »

...no instruction sheet - and no interest in accepting the Leap card ...

On an associated topic,has anybody successfully managed to purchase a BAC Rambler product on their Leapcard as yet ?

Stevek101

AlekSmart wrote: »

On an associated topic,has anybody successfully managed to purchase a BAC Rambler product on their Leapcard as yet ?

I'm due a new ticket, is it possible yet? Just noticed it is up on the Leap site now. Thanks for the head's up Alek!

AlekSmart

The 5 and 30 Day Adult and Student Rambler plus the 1 Day Family are,AFAIK,the initial Ramblers available.
I am open to correction on this,but the Payzone system should now be capable of processing these on the appropriate Leapcard.

Note: A Student Rambler can now only be loaded onto a valid Student Leapcard.

The next products should be the Travel 90/10 Journey,The Bus/Rail and the Bus/Luas ranges,which hopefully should occur in short-order.

It is somewhat sad however,that nobody of substance within the NTA/Government could appreciate the benefit of NOT increasing the cost of Period Public Transport Tickets and of using this quite significant advance in the ITS project to further enhance available Public Transport in the Greater Dublin Area.

It is as if these people actually dislike the areas which they have responsibility for :mad:

lucernarian

AlekSmart wrote: »

The 5 and 30 Day Adult and Student Rambler plus the 1 Day Family are,AFAIK,the initial Ramblers available.
I am open to correction on this,but the Payzone system should now be capable of processing these on the appropriate Leapcard.

Note: A Student Rambler can now only be loaded onto a valid Student Leapcard.

The next products should be the Travel 90/10 Journey,The Bus/Rail and the Bus/Luas ranges,which hopefully should occur in short-order.

It is somewhat sad however,that nobody of substance within the NTA/Government could appreciate the benefit of NOT increasing the cost of Period Public Transport Tickets and of using this quite significant advance in the ITS project to further enhance available Public Transport in the Greater Dublin Area.

It is as if these people actually dislike the areas which they have responsibility for :mad:

It won't be much of an advance if even more people are using a Leap card that will crash Wayfarers! Reducing or eliminating instances where people can walk on for free because the Wayfarer etc. has broken down is vital for safeguarding revenue never mind expanding business!

AlekSmart

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

It won't be much of an advance if even more people are using a Leap card that will crash Wayfarers! Reducing or eliminating instances where people can walk on for free because the Wayfarer etc. has broken down is vital for safeguarding revenue never mind expanding business!

I'm usually happy to go the Glass Half-Empty route myself,in keeping with the national phsyche,but in this particular instance another software "Upgrade",last week, appears (:eek:) to be allowing the TIM's to perform a bit better...fingers x'd however as it gives us gloomy doomers very little time to find something else to douse our flame...:(

lucernarian

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm usually happy to go the Glass Half-Empty route myself,in keeping with the national phsyche,but in this particular instance another software "Upgrade",last week, appears (:eek:) to be allowing the TIM's to perform a bit better...fingers x'd however as it gives us gloomy doomers very little time to find something else to douse our flame...:(

Well that story goes in the half-full glass, so to speak! Good stuff.

Am I right in saying that you think it likely that the one journey Travel 90 will make its way onto Leap?

Edit: More importantly, when the 1 Day Family rambler is used, will the driver have any clear notification that up to 2 adults and 4 children may travel on the bus if the family rambler is loaded on the Leap card? That's currently taken care of with the orange strip running horizontally through the middle of the current ticket. It won't be much good if it only flashes up briefly on the Wayfarer while the driver is busy with someone else, and then notices a family marching on board without any interaction or extra beeps from the machine!

ailbheg

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Edit: More importantly, when the 1 Day Family rambler is used, will the driver have any clear notification that up to 2 adults and 4 children may travel on the bus if the family rambler is loaded on the Leap card? That's currently taken care of with the orange strip running horizontally through the middle of the current ticket. It won't be much good if it only flashes up briefly on the Wayfarer while the driver is busy with someone else, and then notices a family marching on board without any interaction or extra beeps from the machine!

Maybe I'm assuming too much here, but I'm going to hazard a guess that there will be a different beep, similar to how child and student ramblers now cause three beeps.

Stevek101

Dublin Bus daily and weekly Leap capping levels to be introduced before the 1st December

Daily
Adult 6.90
Student 5.00
Child2.50

Weekly
Adult 27.50
Student 20.00
Child 8.20

Stevek101

Also multi operator caps should be in place by 1st Jan 2014.