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"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

Flukey

I am just about to bring my new Leap card into the strange world of public transport to test it. There are already several Leap threads going and we've already had some points about its usage raised in them. Maybe we can keep this thread for more specific feedback by the people who have actually got a card and leave the more general discussions on it to the other threads. So if you have some specific feedback from actually using the card put it in here, as briefly as possible. Then we can all use it when we are feeding back our experiences in the questionnaires we are all supposed to be getting. If anything arises here that people would like to discuss in more detail, switch to one of the other threads which already have a broad range of discussion about it that is likely to be relevant. Anyway, my Leap card and I are about to head out. Wish us luck!:D

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ailbheg

WilburWhately wrote: »

... have been fighting running battle with BE drivers trying to get them to accept the leap card on one of the commuter routes for the past week. One driver just flat out refused to take it but let me on anyway (only after a confrontation of course); got into a stand-off with another and told him straight up out i wasn't getting off the bus - the fact he couldn't process the card wasn't my problem.. rang the complaints line and they seemed as exasperated as me at all of this - was told the drivers had been trained but that they might need a 'refresher' course - obviously there's a legacy of bad industrial relations in the background here but still, lots of inflexibility and the standard surliness at the front line...

Did he not have his sheet of instructions? The drivers on my route appear to have been given them

A lot of them don't know what the story is, I've seen someone try to use a student leap, which currently can't be used according to the website.

WilburWhately

... have been fighting running battle with BE drivers trying to get them to accept the leap card on one of the commuter routes for the past week. One driver just flat out refused to take it but let me on anyway (only after a confrontation of course); got into a stand-off with another and told him straight up out i wasn't getting off the bus - the fact he couldn't process the card wasn't my problem.. rang the complaints line and they seemed as exasperated as me at all of this - was told the drivers had been trained but that they might need a 'refresher' course - obviously there's a legacy of bad industrial relations in the background here but still, lots of inflexibility and the standard surliness at the front line...

lucernarian

Victor wrote: »

Ah, I though Matthews stopped there.

It stops in Monasterboice only, between Drogheda and Dundalk.

Victor

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

What sort of competition exists in Dunleer? Bus Eireann's route 100 serves there as does the 100X in evenings and nights.

Ah, I though Matthews stopped there.

lucernarian

Victor wrote: »

As you can see form the map, the zones bear little relationship to the existing ones. however, is suspect some of the thinking stems from the old short hop, medium hop and giant hop zones. Does anyone have that map to hand?

For the moment, zones are approximately.

Colour Distances Width
Black 0-20km 20km (No BÉ services)
Red 20-30km 10km
Green 30-40km 10km
Blue 40-60km 20km
Yellow 60-90km 30km
Orange 90-130km 40km
Portlaoise, Dunleer and Dundalk have oddly low single fares, presumably due to competition.

What sort of competition exists in Dunleer? Bus Eireann's route 100 serves there as does the 100X in evenings and nights.

languagenerd

AngryLips wrote: »

I really wish they would get their finger out with the DB cap. Let's face it, for Luas and IE there just isn't enough of a network effect for the capping they've introduced for those two services to be of much use. DB on the other hand is a different story...

I dunno, the Luas cap comes in handy when you don't know in advance how many times you'll be on the Luas each day/week. Luas weekly tickets are consecutive (unlike DB), so there's no point buying it if you don't know in advance if you're using it enough days for it to be worth it. With the cap, you don't pay more than the cost of a weekly ticket (Monday to Sunday) without having to pay upfront.

It'd be great if they made a multi-operator cap... though I can't see that happening any time soon.

LXFlyer

Yes it can.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

AlekSmart

Polar101 wrote: »

a €15 Dublin Bus cap wouldn't make a lot of sense, since the Rambler tickets cost in the region of €5 a day. Or am I missing something here?

A potentially strong hint is the current cost of a One Day Rambler...:)

This would reduce the number of printed ticket types required, amongst other things.

markpb

Polar101 wrote: »

a €15 Dublin Bus cap wouldn't make a lot of sense, since the Rambler tickets cost in the region of €5 a day. Or am I missing something here?

It's still in test so I assume the figure is kept artificially high to stop normal people hitting it.

Polar101

Victor wrote: »

Dublin Bus capping will shortly, details to be announced. Already the message that users are getting has been changed from "Cap €10,000" to "Cap €15".

a €15 Dublin Bus cap wouldn't make a lot of sense, since the Rambler tickets cost in the region of €5 a day. Or am I missing something here?

ailbheg

lxflyer wrote: »

I think it's more a case of the driver not knowing.

It is most definitely supposed to be on all of those routes listed.

He told me he asked the inspector for his route and was told it was only the three mentioned above.

Supposed to be doesn't necessarily mean actually is. There has obviously been a breakdown in communication somewhere.

LXFlyer

ailbheg wrote: »

While this is what the website implies, today I was told by a driver that he was told by an inspector that the only routes on which it is in operation are the 103, 105 and 133. This is despite purchasing a day ticket for the Green Zone on that route last Thursday. However, today the machine would not allow purchase of the ticket, but that may have been because the driver hadn't been trained in the sale of the tickets, so wasn't sure what to do.

When I was getting off the bus, he told me that he had had a look before departure from Connolly, he had checked the website, and that what I had been saying was right according to it, so he would look into it, and have a chat to the driver who had managed to put a ticket on my leap card to see what was going on.

With a bit of luck I'll be able to find out tomorrow what's going on.

I think it's more a case of the driver not knowing.

It is most definitely supposed to be on all of those routes listed.

ailbheg

lxflyer wrote: »

Not for the first time, you are completely misreading the statement and being far too narrow in your interpretation.

BE/NTA are using the term "Greater Dublin Area" in the widest possible sense to mean all of the zones - zones 1-6. That much is clear from the list of routes that it can be used on.

It does not apply to just zone 1. It covers zones 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. I merely listed how far on each route zone 1 covers in post #1851 - you listed only 3 routes.

It covers EVERY route in post #1847 in their entirety.

I don't know how much clearer they could put it.

So yes, you can now use LEAP to get as far as Cavan, Tullamore, Longford etc. using Leap on the routes listed above.

While this is what the website implies, today I was told by a driver that he was told by an inspector that the only routes on which it is in operation are the 103, 105 and 133. This is despite purchasing a day ticket for the Green Zone on that route last Thursday. However, today the machine would not allow purchase of the ticket, but that may have been because the driver hadn't been trained in the sale of the tickets, so wasn't sure what to do.

When I was getting off the bus, he told me that he had had a look before departure from Connolly, he had checked the website, and that what I had been saying was right according to it, so he would look into it, and have a chat to the driver who had managed to put a ticket on my leap card to see what was going on.

With a bit of luck I'll be able to find out tomorrow what's going on.

Victor

As you can see form the map, the zones bear little relationship to the existing ones. However, is suspect some of the thinking stems from the old short hop, medium hop and giant hop zones. Does anyone have that map to hand?

For the moment, zones are approximately.

Colour Distances Width
Black 0-20km 20km (No BÉ services)
Red 20-30km 10km
Green 30-40km 10km
Blue 40-60km 20km
Yellow 60-90km 30km
Orange 90-130km 40km

Portlaoise, Dunleer and Dundalk have oddly low single fares, presumably due to competition.

Victor

"Greater Dublin Area" has the specific meaning of Dublin, Wicklow, Kildare and Meath. In the context of Bus Éireann services, it makes sense to include the entirety of the routes that serve these areas, as much as is possible.

The Dublin Bus area is the "Short Hop Zone", a completely different meaning.

Similarly, "Metropolitan Area" is the million of so people out to Swords, Bray and Leixlip.

n0brain3r wrote: »

Any plans for IE to extend the range of Leap?

The number of stations won't be increased immediately, but additional functions may be added. Stations out to Kildare and Drogheda and at some other locations are receiving ticket barriers, as have some stations in Cork. Revenue protection is the primary objective, but Leap may follow.

TheBandicoot wrote: »

So you can apply period tickets to the Leap for BE? Cool, when is that functionality coming to the other modes?

It has been happening for annual adult ticket holders since 1 October. This will gradually filter down to other products.

Stevek101 wrote: »

Will we see all Ramblers migrate together? Any more info on the cap? Surely it'll be launching soon!

I don't think we will necessarily see them all migrate together. It will start with the annual then monthly tickets. The caps are likely to run in parallel with the Ramblers for some time.

AngryLips wrote: »

I really wish they would get their finger out with the DB cap. Let's face it, for Luas and IE there just isn't enough of a network effect for the capping they've introduced for those two services to be of much use. DB on the other hand is a different story...

Dublin Bus capping will shortly, details to be announced. Already the message that users are getting has been changed from "Cap €10,000" to "Cap €15".

However, it won't really become 'awesome' until there is a multi-operator cap.

AngryLips

Stevek101 wrote: »

Will we see all Ramblers migrate together? Any more info on the cap? Surely it'll be launching soon!

I really wish they would get their finger out with the DB cap. Let's face it, for Luas and IE there just isn't enough of a network effect for the capping they've introduced for those two services to be of much use. DB on the other hand is a different story...

Stevek101

Will we see all Ramblers migrate together? Any more info on the cap? Surely it'll be launching soon!

AlekSmart

TheBandicoot wrote: »

So you can apply period tickets to the Leap for BE? Cool, when is that functionality coming to the other modes? My brother recently started college and was very confused he couldn't just load his monthly student bus ticket onto his student travel/Leap card.

As a possible hint.....see how easy it currently is to source a 30 Day Student Rambler..?

Dravokivich

TheBandicoot wrote: »

So you can apply period tickets to the Leap for BE? Cool, when is that functionality coming to the other modes? My brother recently started college and was very confused he couldn't just load his monthly student bus ticket onto his student travel/Leap card.

It's all dependant on each operator and which stage they are at within the scheme. Not too much details have been released on it though.

foggy_lad

TheBandicoot wrote: »

So you can apply period tickets to the Leap for BE? Cool, when is that functionality coming to the other modes? My brother recently started college and was very confused he couldn't just load his monthly student bus ticket onto his student travel/Leap card.

The BE leap offering only applies to adult daily and 7 day tickets so far as far as I can see from the confusing information available.

TheBandicoot

So you can apply period tickets to the Leap for BE? Cool, when is that functionality coming to the other modes? My brother recently started college and was very confused he couldn't just load his monthly student bus ticket onto his student travel/Leap card.

LXFlyer

Polar101 wrote: »

It says the Leap card is valid on route 109 "Dublin-Dunshaughlin" - is that just a mistake on the Bus Eireann site?

I would think it is - it should apply all the way to Cavan.

Polar101

It says the Leap card is valid on route 109 "Dublin-Dunshaughlin" - is that just a mistake on the Bus Eireann site?

LXFlyer

foggy_lad wrote: »

This makes it a lot clearer than whoever wrote that press release!

Ask anyone what the greater Dublin area is and they will indicate the area covered by the short hop zone - Maynooth-Bray/greystones-Balbriggan

For goodness sakes - it lists the routes it is applicable to. How much clearer do you need?

Given BE don't carry people within the Short Hop Zone (in general) it's pretty obvious what the statement means.

Either way I think this conversation has digressed enough!!!

AngryLips

foggy_lad wrote: »

This makes it a lot clearer than whoever wrote that press release!

Ask anyone what the greater Dublin area is and they will indicate the area covered by the short hop zone - Maynooth-Bray/greystones-Balbriggan

I would've taken GDA to be Co Dublin and adjacent counties, plus Louth. I would've thought the area you're talking about is metopolitan Dublin, ie the continuous built up area of Dublin city.

foggy_lad

lxflyer wrote: »

Not for the first time, you are completely misreading the statement and being far too narrow in your interpretation.

BE/NTA are using the term "Greater Dublin Area" in the widest possible sense to mean all of the zones - zones 1-6. That much is clear from the list of routes that it can be used on.

It does not apply to just zone 1. It covers zones 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. I merely listed how far on each route zone 1 covers in post #1851 - you listed only 3 routes.

It covers EVERY route in post #1847 in their entirety.

I don't know how much clearer they could put it.

So yes, you can now use LEAP to get as far as Cavan, Tullamore, Longford etc. using Leap on the routes listed above.

This makes it a lot clearer than whoever wrote that press release!

Ask anyone what the greater Dublin area is and they will indicate the area covered by the short hop zone - Maynooth-Bray/greystones-Balbriggan

LXFlyer

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is stated clearly that it is only available in the greater Dublin Area

If it is valid as you say on all routes listed in all zones then it can be used to get to Kilmoon/Duleek on the 103/105? or Athboy and Cavan on the 111? out to Edenderry/Tullamore on the 120/121? or Newbridge on the 123/126? or Longford on the 115? and Wicklow on the 133

Not for the first time, you are completely misreading the statement and being far too narrow in your interpretation.

BE/NTA are using the term "Greater Dublin Area" in the widest possible sense to mean all of the zones - zones 1-6. That much is clear from the list of routes that it can be used on.

It does not apply to just zone 1. It covers zones 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. I merely listed how far on each route zone 1 covers in post #1851 - you listed only 3 routes.

It covers EVERY route in post #1847 in their entirety.

I don't know how much clearer they could put it.

So yes, you can now use LEAP to get as far as Cavan, Tullamore, Longford etc. using Leap on the routes listed above.

foggy_lad

lxflyer wrote: »

Leap has now been extended to all Bus Eireann routes in the greater Dublin area.

http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=363

It is stated clearly that it is only available in the greater Dublin Area

lxflyer wrote: »

Did you even bother to read the post above?

It is valid on all the routes listed in all of the zones - the only exceptions are single tickets on the 100X and 101.

As usual, you are somewhat short of the mark. Zone 1 (Red zone) includes:
103 to Ashbourne
105 to Ratoath
111 to Batterstown
115/115A to Kilcock
120/123 to Celbridge
126 to Kill
133 to Kilmacanogue

If it is valid as you say on all routes listed in all zones then it can be used to get to Kilmoon/Duleek on the 103/105? or Athboy and Cavan on the 111? out to Edenderry/Tullamore on the 120/121? or Newbridge on the 123/126? or Longford on the 115? and Wicklow on the 133

LXFlyer

foggy_lad wrote: »

So it is only abailable on all buses in the red zone so far yet their advertising it as if it is available to all zones?

Also most of the routes listed have pick up only outbound and drop off only inbound restrictions within zones 1 & 2 making leap use in zone 1 almost impossible. It can be used to/from celbridge on tje 120 and also on the 103/105 but that is about it.

Did you even bother to read the post above?

It is valid on all the routes listed in all of the zones - the only exceptions are single tickets on the 100X and 101.

As usual, you are somewhat short of the mark. Zone 1 (Red zone) includes:
103 to Ashbourne
105 to Ratoath
111 to Batterstown
115/115A to Kilcock
120/123 to Celbridge and Straffan
126 to Kill
133 to Kilmacanogue