"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

Aard

I've been a vocal supporter of a flat fare, but it's only since the introduction of the Leap card that I actually hear regular Joes talking about it. A few recent posts on here calling for the flat fare reminded me of it. I think now that the Leap card has doubled the number of fares available people are more confused than ever, and the balance seems to be turning in favour of extreme simplification. I've heard figures anywhere between €1 and €3 (with discounts for weekly/monthly for the more expensive).

The wheels are turning on this one.

Mr Simpson

Aard wrote: »

I've been a vocal supporter of a flat fare, but it's only since the introduction of the Leap card that I actually hear regular Joes talking about it. A few recent posts on here calling for the flat fare reminded me of it. I think now that the Leap card has doubled the number of fares available people are more confused than ever, and the balance seems to be turning in favour of extreme simplification. I've heard figures anywhere between €1 and €3 (with discounts for weekly/monthly for the more expensive).

The wheels are turning on this one.

I think the best solution, imho, would be;

• Standard Cash Flat Fare: €2.70 (or maybe €2.50)
• Leap Fare: €1.95 with transfers for 90 mins (thus removing the need for travel 90 cards)
• Xpresso, Outer Suburban, City Centre Fare,90,91,221 & 236 stay the same for Cash
• Xpresso, Outer Suburban Leap: €1.95 with transfers for 90 mins
• 90/91/221/236/CC Leap Fare: Same, can transfer but difference is charged, so 90 bus customers pay €1.50, if they board another bus within 90 mins, they are charged the additional 45c

Not sure if all the above is feasible, but it's the best solution I can come up with.

AlekSmart

Stevek101 wrote: »

If the driver is told once, how hard is that to remember? This information can easily be passed on to a passenger.

What if the Driver is given wrong information ?

This is then passed,in good faith,to the passenger,and thus the thing takes legs.....

The issue is'nt the Stage Locations per se...It is why were ALL stage markings removed and never replaced.

Since we are supposed and expected to be accurate in charging thje fares it surely behoves the company to have the maximum amount of Information available to passengers to ensure NO ambiguity.

markpb

mystic86 wrote: »

if travelling from leixlip to donabate you need to change at connolly, do i just swipe on at leixlip and swipe off at donabate and do nothing with the card at connolly? or what do I do?

Do nothing at Connolly.

LXFlyer

KD345 wrote: »

The example you give is a perfect case where the stages are confusing. That image, which appears on the drivers screen for Route 123, suggests stage 71 is St. James' Hospital. Unfortunatly it doesn't say which stop it is. There are two stops in the hospital, so which is it? Just to highlight this even further, if you were to examine stage 71 in this area, you will notice that for routes 13 and 40, this stop is in fact on St. James' Street itself, outside the hospital grounds. It's this type of ambiguity which needs to be addressed before we can accept that the stage system is workable.

Stevek101 wrote: »

In fairness that is not really an excuse. 13,40 and 123 are all different routes. A bit of individual route training would remove any of these issues. Either way this confusion will be removed completely when it is all done by GPS.

KD345 wrote: »

Even isolating Route 123, which stop in St. James' Hospital is stage 71? And how is a driver and passenger supposed to know?

Stevek101 wrote: »

If the driver is told once, how hard is that to remember? This information can easily be passed on to a passenger.

KD345 wrote: »

Which stop is stage 71 though? You say they currently appear clearly on the drivers screen. I disagree.

Why isn't this information available right now for passengers? Every stop is numbered, so why are the stages not clearer to passengers?

This information should be transparently available to passengers and drivers alike. Saying that the driver should tell passengers is copping out. There are numerous examples of stages that are not clearly identifiable and all ambiguity should be removed.

Stage 29 on the 13 and 40 is stop 1942, directly after the main entrance to the hospital. Therefore, stage 29 on the 123 would be the first outbound stop in the hospital (stages try to be the same distance on parallel routes) as it is the nearest stop.

Stage 71 on the 13 and 40 is stop 1995 which would (I imagine) also be the stage 71 on the 123 in order to maintain the same fare structure. But of course that is not clear!

mmcn90 wrote: »

If they are going to continue with this stage nonsense, why not change the stage description to stop number, thus removing any confusion or argument.

Just to give an example, on the 130, stage 21, heading towards the city centre, is St. Joseph's School (in this case, not that confusing), why not change this to Stage 21 - Stop Number 614, this removes any confusion from where each stage begins.

Or, just bring in a flat fare!!!!!:rolleyes:

I think putting the stop number in the stage lists is a perfect solution, however there should also be some form of marker on a stop that is a stage.

Carawaystick

goingnowhere wrote: »

Irish Rail doesn't allow epurse smartcards at Kilcoole, annuals only

not according to https://smartcard.irishrail.ie/smartcard2/pages/welcomeAnonymousIV.jsf

Irish Rail wrote:

What is Smart Card?

The Smart Card is used to store travel credit that is deducted as you travel by rail within the Short Hop Zone as far as Balbriggan, Maynooth, Kilcoole and Hazelhatch.

Why should I switch to Smart Card?

· Faster – no more queuing for tickets as you can pay in advance

· Easier –they are reusable – it can be topped up when you need to

· Cheaper – fares are cheaper than regular single cash fares

· Safer – the balance can be protected once Smart Card is registered

Products available

·Adult E-Purse -E-Purse works in a similar way to mobile phone credit. Everytime you tag on and tag off the cost of the journey is deducted from your card.

· Schoolchild & Scholar –The Schoolchild (Under 16) and Scholar (16-18) cards ffer children travelling by rail to school discounted fares.

· These products can be topped by via a ticket vending machine in your station or online.

Victor

crushproof wrote: »

I've been overcharged twice, charged full fare on the DART because the tag off machines at my local station weren't working. Got in touch with customer service and with in a few days I had received a refund, seems they have to go through Irish Rail before approving a refund which is why it takes a few days.
Also, another good thing.... some kind randomer must be topping up my card, I've received €15 in the past few days....makes no sense at all!

Have you registered your card? Or is Leap being generous to you?

mmcn90 wrote: »

If they are going to continue with this stage nonsense, why not change the stage description to stop number, thus removing any confusion or argument.

Just to give an example, on the 130, stage 21, heading towards the city centre, is St. Joseph's School (in this case, not that confusing), why not change this to Stage 21 - Stop Number 614, this removes any confusion from where each stage begins.

Or, just bring in a flat fare!!!!!:rolleyes:

Well, more like "Stage 21 - Stop 0614 - Fairview, Pedestrian Footbridge"

mystic86 wrote: »

if travelling from leixlip to donabate you need to change at connolly, do i just swipe on at leixlip and swipe off at donabate and do nothing with the card at connolly? or what do I do?

You only have to swipe at Leixlip and Donabate.

For people who already have a point-to-point ticket, there is an additional validator on platform 5 at Connolly.

Victor

Carawaystick wrote: »

not according to https://smartcard.irishrail.ie/smartcard2/pages/welcomeAnonymousIV.jsf

That's an error. While it is true that Kilcoole is in the Short Hop Zone, it isn't connected to the smart card system - you can't tag-on or off.

Mr Simpson

Victor wrote: »

Well, more like "Stage 21 - Stop 0614 - Fairview, Pedestrian Footbridge

Yep, including the stop name as well as the stop number would be absolutely essential, completely forgot to put it in.

SerialComplaint

SerialComplaint wrote: »

The Luas guys tell me that "A credit card cannot be used twice within a 7 day period" for fraud protection reasons. This is a real barrier for legitimate customers.

I brought the family into town last Saturday, and used my credit card to buy tickets for the family, while using my own Leap card. On Monday, my Leap balance was low, so I needed to top up - but my credit card was declined, with no explanation why. I had to get onto the customer services folk to find out why it was declined.

This seems like a very restrictive limitation to me, and is creating a barrier for legitimate customers.

robd wrote: »

Pretty standard fraud protection policy. Most people have at least 2 cards (credit card, debit card) and also cash. Most people won't need to topup more than once in a week. Thus it is only a minor inconvenience.

Your problem is what's known as an edge case.

Vendors don't advertise fraud protection rules for obvious reasons.

I'm hugely impressed with Luas. They got back to me by email today to say that "this modification has been lifted and it is now possible to use your card for multiple transactions up to €150 over a 7 day period". I'm delighted to see that they have listened to sensible customer feedback, and I'm really impressed that they've implemented a software change like this so quickly. Top class customer service there.

Jesus Wept

Really wish they didn't require you to have a capital letter in your password, just not necessary and has already resulted in my account being locked and having to call them. I can see it happening again.

Mr Simpson

The-Rigger wrote: »

Really wish they didn't require you to have a capital letter in your password, just not necessary and has already resulted in my account being locked and having to call them. I can see it happening again.

Ahhh, that's why my accounts locked, drunkenly forgetting about the capital letter, makes sense now. On a serious note, there's a few companies, including Apple doing it, although it does increase the amount of combinations of passwords, it is a tad unnecessary.

Jesus Wept

mmcn90 wrote: »

Ahhh, that's why my accounts locked, drunkenly forgetting about the capital letter, makes sense now. On a serious note, there's a few companies, including Apple doing it, although it does increase the amount of combinations of passwords, it is a tad unnecessary.

It's a leapcard, not fort knox. It's the only reason my account was locked, having to call to get it reset is a pain in the hole too.

Mr Simpson

The-Rigger wrote: »

It's a leapcard, not fort knox. It's the only reason my account was locked, having to call to get it reset is a pain in the hole too.

Surely they should be able to reset the account via email, like every other company on the internet that ever existed, ever!!!

Aard

Was in town over the past few days, and there's all sorts of flags down the quays advertising the card. So far though, I've only seen one person actually using it. And it was sloooow.

Tarabuses

How long does it usually take to update Leap History for a DART journey?

Dravokivich

Tarabuses wrote: »

How long does it usually take to update Leap History for a DART journey?

Your card is up to date, so Luas TVM / Payzone / Dublin Bus can give print outs on the spot. Won't generally be able to see them on website account until the following morning.

Tarabuses

Dravokivich wrote: »

Your card is up to date, so Luas TVM / Payzone / Dublin Bus can give print outs on the spot. Won't generally be able to see them on website account until the following morning.

Yes, on the website now but not when I posted at 8.30 this morning.

almalahide

Why did I buy one?

I only use Dublin bus once a day used to use 19euro travel ten but I presumed the leap card prices would be the same LOL only thinking about it now i have been paying 50 cent more the last few weeks! So there goes the card till the prices go up BIZZARE!

KD345

almalahide wrote: »

Why did I buy one?

I only use Dublin bus once a day used to use 19euro travel ten but I presumed the leap card prices would be the same LOL only thinking about it now i have been paying 50 cent more the last few weeks! So there goes the card till the prices go up BIZZARE!

The travel 90 ticket offers excellent value for money, so you're wise to continue using it. Hopefully a similar ticket will be incorporated into the Leap card sometime soon.

bk

KD345 wrote: »

The travel 90 ticket offers excellent value for money, so you're wise to continue using it. Hopefully a similar ticket will be incorporated into the Leap card sometime soon.

Well it is only excellent value for money if it saves you money. It only saves you money if you transfer between buses or on the long zone fare or higher.

Someone (like myself) on the medium zone, is better of using Leap for €1.70

Doodah7

KD345 wrote: »

The travel 90 ticket offers excellent value for money, so you're wise to continue using it. Hopefully a similar ticket will be incorporated into the Leap card sometime soon.

Do travel 90 tickets have an expiry date? I don't mean the 90 minute bit;) but rather that once you start using them, do they all have to be used by a certain date?

Victor

tallpaul wrote: »

Do travel 90 tickets have an expiry date? I don't mean the 90 minute bit;) but rather that once you start using them, do they all have to be used by a certain date?

They have a date marked on them, typically 18-24 months into the future.

bridgepeople

I am an occasional Dublin bus user. I use the bus once or twice a week typically. I got a leap card at the end of December so that I could avail of the lower fares (relative to cash) and also so I don't have to worry about exact change.

I've noticed the last few times I've got the bus that very few people have switched over to the leap card. Many/most people on my route who paid in cash in 2011 paid €1.85, including myself. I am now paying €1.95 using my leap card and thought I was being clever saving myself 20c. However, I have since noticed that most cash payers are now paying €1.90 instead of €2.15 which they probably should.

My guess is that is a definite trend and that if Dublin Bus did an analysis of its fares at the end of January vs 2011, it would see that the percentage paying the stages 8-13 fare has gone down significantly from 2011 and the percentage paying the stages 4-7 fare has risen.

Because the drivers don't enforce correct fares (how can they to be fair?)and the fare structure is overly complicated and opaque, travellers are free to continue paying the wrong fare. So frankly not only would I be better using a travel 90 card rather than leap, I'd actually be better off paying cash and underdeclaring the length of my route!

robd

bridgepeople wrote: »

I am an occasional Dublin bus user. I use the bus once or twice a week typically. I got a leap card at the end of December so that I could avail of the lower fares (relative to cash) and also so I don't have to worry about exact change.

I've noticed the last few times I've got the bus that very few people have switched over to the leap card. Many/most people on my route who paid in cash in 2011 paid €1.85, including myself. I am now paying €1.95 using my leap card and thought I was being clever saving myself 20c. However, I have since noticed that most cash payers are now paying €1.90 instead of €2.15 which they probably should.

My guess is that is a definite trend and that if Dublin Bus did an analysis of its fares at the end of January vs 2011, it would see that the percentage paying the stages 8-13 fare has gone down significantly from 2011 and the percentage paying the stages 4-7 fare has risen.

Because the drivers don't enforce correct fares (how can they to be fair?)and the fare structure is overly complicated and opaque, travellers are free to continue paying the wrong fare. So frankly not only would I be better using a travel 90 card rather than leap, I'd actually be better off paying cash and underdeclaring the length of my route!

Oh so true. I was smiling at the queue of over 50 people at the city centre bus that I got on at on Thursday. All waiting to pay the driver. Not sure how many were Leap but it was low. Wasn't in the humour for queueing so went for the 2.40 option on the right hand side which had ZERO people queueing. How spend thrift of me.

Leap is a FAILURE on Dublin Bus IMO.

Make the right hand validator a 1.95 Travel 90 ticket and you'll get decent uptake and speed up boarding.

el flaco

bridgepeople wrote: »

So frankly not only would I be better using a travel 90 card rather than leap, I'd actually be better off paying cash and underdeclaring the length of my route!

Could you not just underdeclare the length of your route using the Leap card like those that are paying by cash? Get yourself ahead of the game again. Not that I condone that sort of behaviour of course


Also, I just saw a tweet to say that there are now 50,000 leap cards in circulation. Make of that what we will.

mambo

For City Centre, short (1 –3 stages), medium (4 –7 stages) and long (8–13 stages) journeys tell the driver your destination and hold your Leap Card to the target on the driver’s ticket machine and the correct fare will be deducted from your Travel Credit. For longer journeys (over 13 stages) use the Leap Card Validator on the right hand side as you enter the bus and the flat fare will be deducted from your Travel Credit.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/Fares--Tickets/Leapcard/

If you use the Leap Card Validator on the right hand side, does it always deduct the fare for over 13 stages (€2.40), or is it smart enough to only deduct the fare from where you are getting on to the final stop on the route (which could be as little as €1.25)?

Mark200

mambo wrote: »

For City Centre, short (1 –3 stages), medium (4 –7 stages) and long (8–13 stages) journeys tell the driver your destination and hold your Leap Card to the target on the driver’s ticket machine and the correct fare will be deducted from your Travel Credit. For longer journeys (over 13 stages) use the Leap Card Validator on the right hand side as you enter the bus and the flat fare will be deducted from your Travel Credit.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/Fares--Tickets/Leapcard/

If you use the Leap Card Validator on the right hand side, does it always deduct the fare for over 13 stages (€2.40), or is it smart enough to only deduct the fare from where you are getting on to the final stop on the route (which could be as little as €1.25)?

The first one. The machine doesn't know where you're getting on

vienne86

I used my Leap card on Friday to take the Dart to Booterstown. I thought I would top it up in Booterstown station, but the machine would not recognise the Leap card. So I went across the road to the Payzone and was told that they did not have full functionality, and one of the missing functions was topping up of Leap cards. They don't make it easy!

mambo

Mark200 wrote: »

The first one. The machine doesn't know where you're getting on

Thanks. What about if the bus route in question only goes 13 stages or less? In this case is the validator programmed to only charge for 8-13 stages (€1.95)?