"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

Exactly and I'm sure it would sell even more if it bothered to advertise it.

Also you would think it would make sense for them to have LEAP Ticket Vending Machiens for purshasing and topping up leap cards there?

I rather zuspect that for LeapCard purposes,59 O Connell St would be simply another LeapCard "Agent".

It would,however,therefore be in competition with it's own T90,Rambler and other Pre-Paid products so there could well be a bit of a commercial dilemma here....

However,to me,it all points in the direction of a very rushed Introduction of the Leap product without really having attended to the myriad of background "stuff" in advance.

robd

SerialComplaint wrote: »

The Luas guys tell me that "A credit card cannot be used twice within a 7 day period" for fraud protection reasons. This is a real barrier for legitimate customers.

I brought the family into town last Saturday, and used my credit card to buy tickets for the family, while using my own Leap card. On Monday, my Leap balance was low, so I needed to top up - but my credit card was declined, with no explanation why. I had to get onto the customer services folk to find out why it was declined.

This seems like a very restrictive limitation to me, and is creating a barrier for legitimate customers.

Pretty standard fraud protection policy. Most people have at least 2 cards (credit card, debit card) and also cash. Most people won't need to topup more than once in a week. Thus it is only a minor inconvenience.

Your problem is what's known as an edge case.

Vendors don't advertise fraud protection rules for obvious reasons.

el flaco

If you were to tag on to the Luas but not tag off and then go for a DART a few mins later, would the tag on at the train station cause any confusion to the card/system? i.e. be read as a tag off. I'm assuming the answer would be 'no' but still wouldn't be surprised if the card exploded or something.

If the tag on for the Luas is deducting, say, €2 from your balance and returning €0.00 for a tag off, I'm thinking there's probably no necessity to even bother in that situation..? Or would the initial €2 charge be bumped up to €2.50 because the system thinks you're probably riding around Dublin for a couple of quid?

Victor

el flaco wrote: »

If you were to tag on to the Luas but not tag off and then go for a DART a few mins later, would the tag on at the train station cause any confusion to the card/system? i.e. be read as a tag off. I'm assuming the answer would be 'no' but still wouldn't be surprised if the card exploded or something.

I suspect the opposite.

If you tag-on at say Four Courts, go to Connolly, get DART to Clontarf Road, you can't legitimately then make a continuation of the previous Luas journey.

bk

When you tag-on the LUAS, the maximum fare is deducted.

You then get money back when you tag-off, if the journey is less then the maximum fare. If you forget to tag-off, then tagging-on at DART or bus is considered a new separate fare.

Unfortunately if you change your mind after tagging-on at the LUAS and tag-off at the same station, you won't get your full fare back, instead you will just be tagged off and be charged the one zone fare.

DART on the other hand, if you tag on and then tag off at the same station soon after (change your mind, DART, delayed, etc.) then you get the full fare back. I think the LUAS should work the same way. Tag-on and tag-off at the same station in say 10 minutes.

Niles

Can anyone explain this? On tagging off the Luas my card was credited 70c, yet according to the balance reading I was only credited 69c (went from €7.75 to €8.44). Not begrudging the 1c but just curious...

Sequence Source Transaction Type Date Time Amount Balance

7 Luas Travel Credit Deduction 21/01/2012 4:32 PM €-2.15 €7.75
8 Luas Travel Credit Returned 21/01/2012 4:50 PM €0.70 €8.44

blubloblu

Niles wrote: »

Can anyone explain this? On tagging off the Luas my card was credited 70c, yet according to the balance reading I was only credited 69c (went from €7.75 to €8.44). Not begrudging the 1c but just curious...

They failed programming 101. It should balance itself out though.

el flaco

bk wrote: »

When you tag-on the LUAS, the maximum fare is deducted.

You then get money back when you tag-off, if the journey is less then the maximum fare. If you forget to tag-off, then tagging-on at DART or bus is considered a new separate fare.

Unfortunately if you change your mind after tagging-on at the LUAS and tag-off at the same station, you won't get your full fare back, instead you will just be tagged off and be charged the one zone fare.

DART on the other hand, if you tag on and then tag off at the same station soon after (change your mind, DART, delayed, etc.) then you get the full fare back. I think the LUAS should work the same way. Tag-on and tag-off at the same station in say 10 minutes.

Cool, thanks.

The validator wasn't accepting my card, it seemed like it didn't even know there was a card there. Then it started making that farting noise. I gave up after a few attempts and just tagged off at the destination to see if it had actually worked. It didn't so it just tagged me on but amounted to my usual fare anyway so all was right with the universe again. That had me thinking there's probably no need to tag off if making the reverse journey as when I get there I will just be credited €0.00, and I'd probably have to fight through a see of people to get to the machine.

markpb

el flaco wrote: »

The validator wasn't accepting my card, it seemed like it didn't even know there was a card there.

Was your card in your wallet, were there other smartcards in your wallet, was the card close to the centre of the validator and held there for a second?

SerialComplaint

robd wrote: »

Pretty standard fraud protection policy. Most people have at least 2 cards (credit card, debit card) and also cash. Most people won't need to topup more than once in a week. Thus it is only a minor inconvenience.

Your problem is what's known as an edge case.

Vendors don't advertise fraud protection rules for obvious reasons.

Standard policy? What other retail outlets have similar policies? I haven't experienced these credit card declines from anyone else - only from Luas.

The days of having two or three credit cars have gone for most people. Most people are on a financial edge now. For me, it meant having to leave the station, find an ATM, withdraw cash and then top up using the cash - no way to treat a good customer.

Given that they have chip-and-pin, it is crazy for them to reject small transactions in this way.

el flaco

markpb wrote: »

Was your card in your wallet, were there other smartcards in your wallet, was the card close to the centre of the validator and held there for a second?

No I was holding the card in my hand. I didn't do anything different to what I usually do. I took the card away when nothing seemed to be happening and then put it back to the validator. Eventually it made that horrible noise but nothing came up on the screen. I was trying the next validator when the doors started closing so I just jumped on. It tagged at my destination no problem and then I tried the first validator on the way back and it worked no problem.
I've had a couple of fails when trying to tag at those purple validators. Another one kept telling me to try again. I'm not sure whether I should have then retreated several feet before retrying but subsequent attempts were equally fruitless.
I've never had any problems with the IR validators....except for that one time I turned the card sideways to see if it would work :pac: FYI, turning your card sideways will validate it but the gates won't open.

Victor

el flaco wrote: »

I've never had any problems with the IR validators....except for that one time I turned the card sideways to see if it would work :pac: FYI, turning your card sideways will validate it but the gates won't open.

You need to walk forward before the gate will open.

el flaco

Victor wrote: »

You need to walk forward before the gate will open.

Nah the gates definitely weren't opening. The card balance never flashed up on the screen either. A retry said the card was validated though.

Give it a go

Africa

Joke of a system.

Got on a bus there, has less than 13 stages. Was told just to put up against the machine and was charged whatever it was, 2.40 I think, when it should have been 1.90. Driver acknowledged it was his fault for saying, and said I gotta ring Leap Card and theyll sort it. So I ring them and guess what. They want me to go to Dublin Bus in O Connell Street to get it back! Joke!

Second joke - topped up last TUESDAY online by 15 euro with activation at Irish Rail. So go to Pearse next day, nothing. No money on the card. Ok, i remember it said up to 24 hours to do it. Same coming back from Blackrock. Same the next day as well, both ways. So now its Friday morning and still nothing, so I call them. Apparently 'Irish rail isnt working properly as they didnt upgrade their machines properly' and so cant top up there. I ask for it to be transfered to any retial and he says he cant! Once its done, it cannot be altered! So he says the 15 euro is gone for 7 days then it will be refunded! Right... I said ok, I want it back on my account and I'll top it up myself. So I top it up manuallyon Friday, go over the weekend, and then Monday morning (6 days later) it tops it up with the 15, on top of the 20 Ive got on there! Joke!!! What can I do about this one? Probably nothing!!

Aard

@Africa

What can you do? You're doing the best thing you can do in this situation: exposing your difficulties with the Leap card in public. Everybody can see this. I don't know how many people read Boards, but it's a lot. Journalists read it, political advisors read it, even the NTA read it. If problems with the Leap card weren't aired, then nothing would improve fast.

On a more practical note, keep badgering Dublin Bus to give you your money back. They overcharged you. If a supermarket overcharged you, they'd give you the item for free or a voucher for the store. Demand similar from Dublin Bus, and refuse to go to O'Connell St to pick it up.

Juanles

Advised this morning by customer service Dublin bus that fare to O'Connell St to query overcharge will be refunded-- going to try it out tomorrow and see if she was correct!!

n97 mini

Will they pay you for your time aswell?

foggy_lad

Africa wrote: »

Joke of a system.

Got on a bus there, has less than 13 stages. Was told just to put up against the machine and was charged whatever it was, 2.40 I think, when it should have been 1.90. Driver acknowledged it was his fault for saying, and said I gotta ring Leap Card and theyll sort it. So I ring them and guess what. They want me to go to Dublin Bus in O Connell Street to get it back! Joke!

Second joke - topped up last TUESDAY online by 15 euro with activation at Irish Rail. So go to Pearse next day, nothing. No money on the card. Ok, i remember it said up to 24 hours to do it. Same coming back from Blackrock. Same the next day as well, both ways. So now its Friday morning and still nothing, so I call them. Apparently 'Irish rail isnt working properly as they didnt upgrade their machines properly' and so cant top up there. I ask for it to be transfered to any retial and he says he cant! Once its done, it cannot be altered! So he says the 15 euro is gone for 7 days then it will be refunded! Right... I said ok, I want it back on my account and I'll top it up myself. So I top it up manuallyon Friday, go over the weekend, and then Monday morning (6 days later) it tops it up with the 15, on top of the 20 Ive got on there! Joke!!! What can I do about this one? Probably nothing!!

Why did they not tell people this? are they hoping to ,ake money from it or maybe they think that customers wont notice that their cards are missing money? Clowns!

Aard wrote: »

@Africa

What can you do? You're doing the best thing you can do in this situation: exposing your difficulties with the Leap card in public. Everybody can see this. I don't know how many people read Boards, but it's a lot. Journalists read it, political advisors read it, even the NTA read it. If problems with the Leap card weren't aired, then nothing would improve fast.

On a more practical note, keep badgering Dublin Bus to give you your money back. They overcharged you. If a supermarket overcharged you, they'd give you the item for free or a voucher for the store. Demand similar from Dublin Bus, and refuse to go to O'Connell St to pick it up.

Stick with cash and prepaid tickets that actually work well straight out of the many shops that sell them! As for getting anything from Dublin Bus don't hold your breath, they are tha cause of much of the hassles Leap customers are facing with their inability to provide a proper fare system!

AlekSmart

Africa wrote: »

Joke of a system.



Second joke - topped up last TUESDAY online by 15 euro with activation at Irish Rail. So go to Pearse next day, nothing. No money on the card. Ok, i remember it said up to 24 hours to do it. Same coming back from Blackrock. Same the next day as well, both ways. So now its Friday morning and still nothing, so I call them. Apparently 'Irish rail isnt working properly as they didnt upgrade their machines properly' and so cant top up there. I ask for it to be transfered to any retial and he says he cant! Once its done, it cannot be altered! So he says the 15 euro is gone for 7 days then it will be refunded! Right... I said ok, I want it back on my account and I'll top it up myself. So I top it up manuallyon Friday, go over the weekend, and then Monday morning (6 days later) it tops it up with the 15, on top of the 20 Ive got on there! Joke!!! What can I do about this one? Probably nothing!!

Bad news for Africa.....

https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=CG%2fCj953WkPB%2b7fwjkLFshsyP7wecX6fiV0VBn3Q632F20yhboVXGTVmv%2b2bImvcFvyDWv8wk%2bd4E5kAGPCvjpJvBUgOhvVEg%2fB6ZgVyLiI6nLqx13jMpsQIKgDUASmGM793kdSI9FJOtf2oYKBBrP3uRbgVAG0ZGo31awr2Vmg%3d

The Authority will endeavour to ensure that products purchased remotely will be available for configuration on to the Leap Card as soon as possible; however, it cannot guarantee that products will be available sooner than 48 hours after purchase. The products will be available at the nominated location for 7 days. Uncollected products will be automatically refunded to the Leap Card customer.

Oh well,when God made time,he/she made plenty of it .....

Jehuty42

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why did they not tell people this? are they hoping to ,ake money from it or maybe they think that customers wont notice that their cards are missing money? Clowns!

They kind of say it on their site, but yeah, they aren't going out of their way to mention it anywhere else, especially on pages specifically about using Leap on Irish Rail.

foggy_lad

Jehuty42 wrote: »

They kind of say it on their site, but yeah, they aren't going out of their way to mention it anywhere else, especially on pages specifically about using Leap on Irish Rail.

That link is bringing up a blank Leap card site page.

holidaysong

Was charged €1.70 on the bus home this evening for a three stage journey that should have been €1.25. It was only 45c, but still it doesn't fill you with confidence.

Victor

holidaysong wrote: »

Was charged €1.70 on the bus home this evening for a three stage journey that should have been €1.25. It was only 45c, but still it doesn't fill you with confidence.

That is the driver pressing the wrong button. Nothing directly to do with Leap. You should have asked for a refund there and then.

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

That is the driver pressing the wrong button. Nothing directly to do with Leap. You should have asked for a refund there and then.

But it is directly to do with Leap, it's a staffing issue* due to it. It happens plenty often but at least with cash it wouldn't matter cos you only put in the right amount anyway.

* Maybe he pressed the wrong button, but more likely the stages weren't updated properly due to the complete lack of driver info to help them ID a stage point which would have clearly been an issue to be looked at during Leap intro

Dravokivich

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

But it is directly to do with Leap, it's a staffing issue* due to it. It happens plenty often but at least with cash it wouldn't matter cos you only put in the right amount anyway.

* Maybe he pressed the wrong button, but more likely the stages weren't updated properly due to the complete lack of driver info to help them ID a stage point which would have clearly been an issue to be looked at during Leap intro

The staff being employed by Dublin Bus.

The staging thing is no different then when paying by cash fares either. So if someone went on paying by cash and stated a destination as opposed to how much they wanted to pay, they in turn would also have been overcharged.

I don't see how it is a Leap problem in that instance. Is it purely because the card was used?

markpb

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

But it is directly to do with Leap, it's a staffing issue* due to it. It happens plenty often but at least with cash it wouldn't matter cos you only put in the right amount anyway.

It's nothing to do with Leap. He charged the passenger the wrong amount. He could easily have done the same for cash paying passengers - the only difference is that they wouldn't notice.

Aard

No the difference is that with cash, you'll never pay more than you put in the machine. With Leap it's a bit of a lottery hoping that the driver presses the right buttons. I'd bet that if he can't set his machine properly and deduct the correct fare, it's likely that he can't cancel the transaction either.

robd

Aard wrote: »

No the difference is that with cash, you'll never pay more than you put in the machine. With Leap it's a bit of a lottery hoping that the driver presses the right buttons. I'd bet that if he can't set his machine properly and deduct the correct fare, it's likely that he can't cancel the transaction either.

Unfortunately.

The wows are added to by the fact that the screen is largely unreadable unless you're very tall, there's ideal light conditions, you've very very good eyesight, and you don't blink at the wrong moment.

I got caught out with -€0.55 on my card last week as a result of not being able to read balance as part of last transaction. Given I tested the card and have been using it for some time I'd regard myself as a perfect user. God help the rest.

Carawaystick

AlekSmart wrote: »

Bad news for Africa.....

https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=CG%2fCj953WkPB%2b7fwjkLFshsyP7wecX6fiV0VBn3Q632F20yhboVXGTVmv%2b2bImvcFvyDWv8wk%2bd4E5kAGPCvjpJvBUgOhvVEg%2fB6ZgVyLiI6nLqx13jMpsQIKgDUASmGM793kdSI9FJOtf2oYKBBrP3uRbgVAG0ZGo31awr2Vmg%3d



Oh well,when God made time,he/she made plenty of it .....

So does that mean the value will be on your card for 7 days after it's transferred to the leap machines, i.e. up to 9 days after paying or a total of 7 days (168 hours)

holidaysong

Aard wrote: »

No the difference is that with cash, you'll never pay more than you put in the machine. With Leap it's a bit of a lottery hoping that the driver presses the right buttons. I'd bet that if he can't set his machine properly and deduct the correct fare, it's likely that he can't cancel the transaction either.

Exactly. With cash, if I knew I was going 3 stages when I get on then I'd put in €1.40 in the slot and say "€1.40" and that's what I'd be charged. With Leap, I've found if you say "€1.25", they then ask for a destination. This is where problems arise. I asked to go to D'Olier Street from Annesley Bridge. I got the bus with two people paying cash. Their tickets said they were getting on at Malahide Road. Therefore I end up being charged more, because the ticket machine on the bus still thinks we're at Malahide Road and not Annesley Bridge. I say; "That should only be €1.25" and I'm told; "No, I hit the button for D'Olier Street."