"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

Victor

So it will depend on whether the persons states the amount of destination.

Jehuty42

Victor wrote: »

So it will depend on whether the persons states the amount of destination.

..and on whether the driver has the ticket machine properly configured and uses it properly, and doesn't have it a few stages behind like with holidaysong. That's the entire point, there's a movement of control from the passenger to the driver.

wolfpawnat

I was charged €3.75 from Loughlinstown Flyover to UCD today I am starting to think I was better off with just making sure I had change everyday The most it could have been cash was €2.65.

Victor

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I was charged €3.75 from Loughlinstown Flyover to UCD today I am starting to think I was better off with just making sure I had change everyday The most it could have been cash was €2.65.

Presumably you used an Expresso bus. http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Fare-Information/Fares/ You should have gone to the driver and you would have been charged €2.70.

AlekSmart

holidaysong wrote: »

Was charged €1.70 on the bus home this evening for a three stage journey that should have been €1.25. It was only 45c, but still it doesn't fill you with confidence.

Holidaysong,Just ensure that the journey IS actually 3 stages.

As I have been continually banging-on about,Stage Identification (or lack thereof) is nonexistent,and will account for a growing amount of confrontation unless addresed in the simplest,cheapest manner with Letraset or Stencil.

Aard

Victor wrote: »

Presumably you used an Expresso bus. http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Fare-Information/Fares/ You should have gone to the driver and you would have been charged €2.70.

The autmatic validator fare on Xpresso should be €2.70. Just like on regular busses if you're paying the highest fare you go to the automatic validator to get a discount.

Or the OP could have bought a Travel 90...

mynameissarah

Hi there,

I'm just wondering about the situation with online top up?
A friend of mine said his top up took six days to come through?

Has anyone else experienced something similar?

Tow

AlekSmart wrote: »

As I have been continually banging-on about,Stage Identification (or lack thereof) is nonexistent,and will account for a growing amount of confrontation unless addresed in the simplest,cheapest manner with Letraset or Stencil.

A year or two ago I asked Dublin Bus what a Stage is and how do I know how many Stages I have travelled.

The answer I got back was there is a number on each bus stop and your add or subtract the number of the stop you get on/off at to know how many stages you travelled!

I would help if they would train their own staff first..

cloud493

How does this system work like?

LXFlyer

cloud493 wrote: »

How does this system work like?

I think KD345 explained it simply as follows in another thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76322574&postcount=107

KD345 wrote: »

A "stage" is a point on a route where a fare marker is placed. On average, there is a fare stage every 4/5 bus stops. You then use these stage points to calculate your fare.

Then from the Dublin Bus website:

Stages

• The number of stages travelled is calculated by deducting the boarding stage number from the alighting stage number
• Passengers boarding between stage points pay the appropriate fare from the preceding stage point. Passengers alighting between stage points pay the appropriate fare to the next stage point.
• All route stages are listed under the timetables.

This can lead to anomalies as I pointed out in another thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76110612&postcount=16

As explained previously the staged fare system goes back virtually to the days of the trams.

The system is constructed in such a way to try to achieve that bus routes on parallel corridors have fare stages at similar distances. It gets skewed where routes which take different corridors then subsequently join together - you can get very long gaps between stages so that when the routes meet they are on the same stages going forward.

I'll try to explain this simply.

Routes 14 and 16a take different routes from the city centre to Beaumont, one via Malahide Road and one via Beaumont Road.

They leave City Centre at stage 75 going north, and take their different routes. They both reach the junction with Collins Avenue (with Malahide Road on the 14 and with Swords Road on the 16) at stage 81, but in order to keep in line with each other and other routes, the next stage on the 14 is Beaumont Convalescent Home which is on Skelly's Lane near the entrance to Beaumont Hospital and on the 16a it is on Swords Road at the junction with Lorcan Road (in order to keep it in line with the 33 and 41). Otherwise you would have two different sets of stages all along the same route north of that point. It means that the distance between stage 81 and 82 on route 14 has to be the longest in Dublin!

You can find many other examples if you check out the stages of bus routes that deviate and rejoin at a later point.

The system needs a complete overhaul and to my mind the only acceptable solution is a simple zonal system.

I'm sure that is now as clear as mud!

Dravokivich

Tow wrote: »

A year or two ago I asked Dublin Bus what a Stage is and how do I know how many Stages I have travelled.

The answer I got back was there is a number on each bus stop and your add or subtract the number of the stop you get on/off at to know how many stages you travelled!

I would help if they would train their own staff first..

Some stages can have multiple stops in them though.

If you read their time tables, it should say where each stage starts. I just count up the amount of starts I'd be going across whenever I'm on a route I'm not use to and then go by that.

As per Lxflyer's post above, I also count the stop I'm getting on the bus from as a stage too.

Tarabuses

AlekSmart wrote: »

Holidaysong,Just ensure that the journey IS actually 3 stages.

As I have been continually banging-on about,Stage Identification (or lack thereof) is nonexistent,and will account for a growing amount of confrontation unless addresed in the simplest,cheapest manner with Letraset or Stencil.

The faretable shows Fairview as stage 21, Annesley Bridge Road as 22 and D'Olier Street as 25. So if holidaysong boarded at Annesley Bridge Road stop then he was travelling 3 stages. The fact that he saw a ticket issued with Malahide Road as the boarding stage was obviously going to result in an overcharge.

What method does a passenger have to prove that the stage boarded at was different to that charged from?

Tarabuses

Tarabuses wrote: »

The same thing happened to my daughter when she tagged off at Sutton having travelled from Connolly. She was also charged €4.30.

Victor wrote: »

Have you been able to get this resolved? Is she sure she tagged off?.

She uses the Luas four times daily and is very familiar with tagging on and off. I contacted Leap and they have now informed her that a refund has been made as a Top Up on her card, which will expire in 7 days.

AlekSmart

Tow wrote: »

A year or two ago I asked Dublin Bus what a Stage is and how do I know how many Stages I have travelled.

The answer I got back was there is a number on each bus stop and your add or subtract the number of the stop you get on/off at to know how many stages you travelled!

I would help if they would train their own staff first..

Tow,your response could be ...GOTCHA !!!!

The Customer Service person who handled your enquiry simply read from the Stock-Answer on their screen,which in turn came from a timetable recommendation which dates back to the days when Fare Stages were identified.

However today,there are NO Fare Stages identified as in NO numbers to add,subtract,divide or immerse in water...the Stage Numbers DO NOT EXIST,so therefore you have been given innaccurate,misleading and downright silly information.

It is beyond simple comprehension why the company refuse so steadfastly to identify the basic element of the Entire Fare System.

THE SIMPLE EXPEDIENT OF CLEARLY IDENTIFYING FARE-STAGES TO PASSENGERS AND STAFF ALIKE WILL IMMEDIATELY REMOVE ALL AMBIGUITY AND COINCIDENTALLY SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF UNNECESSARY INTERACTION BETWEEN DRIVER AND PASENGER,THUS REDUCING DWELL TIME AND THEREFORE IMPROVING THE GENERAL LEVEL OF SERVICE.

DO IT NOW !!

n97 mini

Or just flat rate the whole lot.

Carawaystick

Why does Irish rail allow their smartcard work to Kilcoole but the nta only allow theirs work to Greystones?
Also what is a "ticket machine" according to the nta?

Stevek101

AlekSmart wrote: »

Stage Numbers DO NOT EXIST,so therefore you have been given innaccurate,misleading and downright silly information.

I've been confused alot by this whole stage numbers do not exists. They appear quite clearly on the Wayfarer for the driver to see. Here is what is displayed when a Leap Card is held on top of the ticket machine:



All the driver has to do is to ensure that they've set the right stage on their ticket machine. They know their current location from the AVL screen in the drivers cabin. All stage info should be printed to their timetable. A bit of knowledge of the route would suffice.

goingnowhere

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why does Irish rail allow their smartcard work to Kilcoole but the nta only allow theirs work to Greystones?
Also what is a "ticket machine" according to the nta?

Irish Rail doesn't allow epurse smartcards at Kilcoole, annuals only

noelfirl

Stevek101 wrote: »

I've been confused alot by this whole stage numbers do not exists. They appear quite clearly on the Wayfarer for the driver to see. Here is what is displayed when a Leap Card is held on top of the ticket machine:



All the driver has to do is to ensure that they've set the right stage on their ticket machine. They know their current location from the AVL screen in the drivers cabin. All stage info should be printed to their timetable. A bit of knowledge of the route would suffice.

I'm glad somebody else has stated this. From glancing in at the Wayfarer in the past, that has always been my impression of the display. I also thought that there was (or at least used to be) a line at the top of the display with the stage or even specific stop, and in the past the driver would update the stage/stop using arrow keys on approach to the next stop. So a driver, who should have at least a basic knowledge of his/her route would just have to know that the stated destination is in between stage X and stage X, and therefore which button to press. Considering the mantra has always been "state your destination", I'm not really convinced the hysterics over stage information is all that warranted.

Not to say that the implementation of the stage fare system to Leap isn't a putz, it still is because it doesn't do enough to reduce driver interaction.

KD345

Stevek101 wrote: »

I've been confused alot by this whole stage numbers do not exists. They appear quite clearly on the Wayfarer for the driver to see. Here is what is displayed when a Leap Card is held on top of the ticket machine:



All the driver has to do is to ensure that they've set the right stage on their ticket machine. They know their current location from the AVL screen in the drivers cabin. All stage info should be printed to their timetable. A bit of knowledge of the route would suffice.

The example you give is a perfect case where the stages are confusing. That image, which appears on the drivers screen for Route 123, suggests stage 71 is St. James' Hospital. Unfortunatly it doesn't say which stop it is. There are two stops in the hospital, so which is it? Just to highlight this even further, if you were to examine stage 71 in this area, you will notice that for routes 13 and 40, this stop is in fact on St. James' Street itself, outside the hospital grounds. It's this type of ambiguity which needs to be addressed before we can accept that the stage system is workable.

Stevek101

noelfirl wrote: »

II also thought that there was (or at least used to be) a line at the top of the display with the stage or even specific stop, and in the past the driver would update the stage/stop using arrow keys on approach to the next stop.

Not to say that the implementation of the stage fare system to Leap isn't a putz, it still is because it doesn't do enough to reduce driver interaction.

You are correct. Before a Leap card is preseted the current stage is displayed where the line with "SV: €64.20" is located in the picture.

foggy_lad got this response from DB regarding fare stages recently:

foggy_lad wrote: »

A refinement to the ticket machine software later in 2012 will automate stage information.

which will definitely be an improvement, athlough I do agree a flat fare would be the best approach.

Stevek101

KD345 wrote: »

The example you give is a perfect case where the stages are confusing. That image, which appears on the drivers screen for Route 123, suggests stage 71 is St. James' Hospital. Unfortunatly it doesn't say which stop it is. There are two stops in the hospital, so which is it? Just to highlight this even further, if you were to examine stage 71 in this area, you will notice that for routes 13 and 40, this stop is in fact on St. James' Street itself, outside the hospital grounds. It's this type of ambiguity which needs to be addressed before we can accept that the stage system is workable.

In fairness that is not really an excuse. 13,40 and 123 are all different routes. A bit of individual route training would remove any of these issues. Either way this confusion will be removed completely when it is all done by GPS.

KD345

Even isolating Route 123, which stop in St. James' Hospital is stage 71? And how is a driver and passenger supposed to know?

Stevek101

KD345 wrote: »

Even isolating Route 123, which stop in St. James' Hospital is stage 71? And how is a driver and passenger supposed to know?

If the driver is told once, how hard is that to remember? This information can easily be passed on to a passenger.

crushproof

I've been overcharged twice, charged full fare on the DART because the tag off machines at my local station weren't working. Got in touch with customer service and with in a few days I had received a refund, seems they have to go through Irish Rail before approving a refund which is why it takes a few days.
Also, another good thing.... some kind randomer must be topping up my card, I've received €15 in the past few days....makes no sense at all!

KD345

Which stop is stage 71 though? You say they currently appear clearly on the drivers screen. I disagree.

Why isn't this information available right now for passengers? Every stop is numbered, so why are the stages not clearer to passengers?

Mr Simpson

If they are going to continue with this stage nonsense, why not change the stage description to stop number, thus removing any confusion or argument.

Just to give an example, on the 130, stage 21, heading towards the city centre, is St. Joseph's School (in this case, not that confusing), why not change this to Stage 21 - Stop Number 614, this removes any confusion from where each stage begins.

Or, just bring in a flat fare!!!!!:rolleyes:

mystic86

if travelling from leixlip to donabate you need to change at connolly, do i just swipe on at leixlip and swipe off at donabate and do nothing with the card at connolly? or what do I do?

bk

And if thy are going to stick with the stage system (they shouldn't), then why doesn't the journey planner on their website and app show the number of stages and ticket price for the planned journey.

Mr Simpson

bk wrote: »

And if thy are going to stick with the stage system (they shouldn't), then why doesn't the journey planner on their website and app show the number of stages and ticket price for the planned journey.

Incompetence being the main reason :mad: