How do Dublin bus justify a 30 cent increase on a fare

Fuinseog wrote: »

is there a major savings to be made on an annual or monthly ticket?

YES!

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Tickets/

Conor J wrote: »

For anyone that works with Dublin bus, Is there a lot of overtime on offer to employees?

If the answer is yes, i would imagine this is quite an expense for Dublin bus.
Again, if the answer is yes. This is a critical area for DB to improve their expenses without needing to hit customers so hard.

Not since the EU working time directive came in. This has had a major impact in reducing overtime. (And I don't work for Dublin Bus!).

No - they are drivers who are not "marked in" on a particular route.

They can work any duty whatsoever.

Conor J wrote: »

I wish Dublin bus would sort out a few things before they considered increasing the fares. They are a shambolic service, and now we source of our frustration has just got more expensive!

Conor J wrote: »

2. Do almost all buses have to go in the direction of the city?

There are already the 17, 18 and 75 orbital services on the southside operating at peak frequencies of every 15-20 minutes, and roughly every 30 minutes off-peak.

The 76/a/b and 210 operate along the western half of the city and the 17a, 220 and 104 across the northside.

There are plans for an additional route from Dun Laoghaire to Tallaght, the 175.

Orbital routes are notoriously difficult to plan, as they need to serve major centres en route to maximise user numbers. They also suffer from the problem that most people making orbital commuter journeys are not starting/finishing at the same place - i.e. most of them are making journeys unique to them.

Conor J wrote: »

3. Can't we have a 3 day bus ticket? Some of us work shift and purchasing for 5 or 7 days just isn't suitable.

There is a 3 day (non-consecutive) rambler ticket available.

Conor J wrote: »

4. Why oh why are we constantly kicked off a bus and told to get on another?

Constantly? How regularly? And where? It can happen where one bus is running late and in order to either get it back on schedule or back to the depot on time that the bus can either switch to set-down only (displaying out of service), or be curtailed and passengers asked to switch buses.

There may also be peak time extras that return to the depot in service.

Conor J wrote: »

1. I get the 145 quite often, rarely would a single bus arrive. Instead we are greeted by 2x145's or even 3, plus a 45 or an 84. So split the buses up so that only one arrives at a bus stop at a given time. Have 5mins or so between each bus, so we don't miss 3 in a row then wait a half hour for the next!
5. Punctuality could definitely be improved.
6. Today the bus driver parked at a bus stop for 15mins 3/4 way through the journey as he had to wait for the next driver to arrive. His excuse: "with no school kids, we got here too early!" (could this not be anticipated in advance? Is this the first day the kids were not at school?...no)

I think the first point to make is one explaining the manner in which Dublin Bus services are operated. Every route has a full schedule which has timed departure points from the terminus. The only other timed points are where a driver changeover takes place en route.

Some routes are integrated together for timetabling purposes from the terminus, for example the 25a and 25b, the 26, 66/a/b and 67, 49 and 54a, 15a and 15b to try to eliminate bunching or long gaps in service. However, in the circumstances you outline there are three totally different routes, operating from different termini, with different end-to-end running times and managing to integrate them under the current scheduling method would be next to near impossible. Bunching can happen if one bus gets held up for whatever reason along the way and other buses don't.

To my mind there are two ways to operate the bus service going forward. Either:
1) Operate the current basis with departure times only, albeit with greater regulation by controllers.
2) Operate a fully timetabled service all along the route whereby there would be specific timetabled points along the route where if buses arrive early they would wait until the scheduled time.

The second method would mean you could be reasonably sure about your arrival time at your destination, but in weeks such as this where there are no schools traffic, you would have buses waiting all along the route. It would however eliminate bunching.

There is a need for more proactive and common sense regulation of the service, and there have been reports of buses here being regulated by the controllers to try to maintain the gaps between buses. However equally there have been reports here by passengers who have been complaining about being held up on the bus being regulated! You can't win!

Last week was an extreme example where the full Monday to Friday service operated from the 27th to 30th. This was complete overkill. Buses were arriving between 15 and 20 minutes earlier than during normal school term conditions. Even if drivers had driven slower they would strill have been early. This became clear to passengers where a driver change was built into the schedule en route, as they were having to wait for the new driver to take up at his scheduled time.

My own solution to this is that Saturday schedules should have been operating, with additional early morning services on routes where the Saturday service starts later than weekdays. However, that presumably would have to be negotiated, and I imagine that will be something to examine once the current Network Direct project is finally completed.

In the specific case you highlighted the bus arrived early (presumably at Donnybrook). I don't know if the driver had rushed to that point or not, but it is fair to say that traffic is lighter this week with no schools, and even without trying would be earlier than normal. The full service is needed this week, and unfortunately (particularly in the morning) the running times may then be overly generous. However next week you will need every bit of running time available! Drivers' working hours are now subject to the EU Working Time Directive which greatly restricts the number of hours that they can work.

Over time the recently installed AVLC system reports will no doubt be analysed and where issues exist, the running times adjusted, but again this takes time to analyse.

Drawing up schedules is an immensely complex task as the scheduler is trying to:
1) Develop a consistent schedule for the passenger
2) Manage bus and driver rosters
3) Ensure driver hours are within the legal limits

This is far more difficult than I suspect you appreciate.

Conor J wrote: »

7. Buses tear out of the traps, Every day i see old people thrown into their seats by reckless drivers. The city isn't a go kart track!

Well if this happens, report the driver.

Conor J wrote: »

8. Is Dublin Bus prudent enough to purchase huge quantities of fuel cheaply in advance like Ryanair? or do they pay as they go? Do Dublin Bus buy the fuel? or CIE? CIE should bear this responsibility, as they could command lower prices.

The fuel is purchased with currency hedges but the benefit of those is now expiring and the effects of fuel price increases are now hitting home.

Conor J wrote: »

9. Even though the buses rarely run on time, a huge number of timetables are out of date, often by a few years

As someone who uses up to 4 buses regularly every day I'd have to say it is not my experience that in general buses operate rarely on time. There are serious runing time problems on certain routes (particularly the 13, 27 and 40) which one would hope will be resolved with the post implementation review as with the 46a last year. Every morning on my commute my buses (2 of them) show up on time with only a handful of exceptions, so I'm a bit puzzled by your statement.

A "huge" number of out of date timetables on stops surprises me. T Why don't you let them know via facebook, twitter or email using the bus stop number. There has been a marked improvement in getting the on-street information updated this year.

Conor J wrote: »

10. How much money do they spend on replacing glass on bus shelters? I know its not their fault they are broken, that's the fault of stupid idiots. However, would it not be prudent to use a tough plastic partition instead?


So sort out the above, and i'd be satisfied to pay whats needed to keep the bus service operational. But right now, it's in many ways a farce!


#Rant over

Adshel pay for the bus shelters not Dublin Bus.

This may be a stupid question but whats a 'stage'?

Conor108 wrote: »

This may be a stupid question but whats a 'stage'?

No one knows.

Not even DB themselves.

Conor108 wrote: »

This may be a stupid question but whats a 'stage'?

A "stage" is a point on a route where a fare marker is placed. On average, there is a fare stage every 4/5 bus stops. You then use these stage points to calculate your fare.

foggy_lad wrote: »

This used to be the case years ago but now the stages are no longer marked on any stop pole or shelter so passengers can not know at what stage their journey starts or ends so can not know how much the journey should cost or if they are being charged correctly.

The stages are the same. They may no longer be marked on stops but they remain as listed on each timetable for each route.

KD345 wrote: »

The stages are the same. They may no longer be marked on stops but they remain as listed on each timetable for each route.

Like the "Earlsfort Terrace / Clonmel St" stage on the 15 - Clonmel St being off Harcourt St and nowhere near the 15 route

Or Stage 84 on the 27b - Ardlea Rd. Where on Ardlea road is that?

Or Stage 12 on the 16a - Corner Collinstown Rd. - What corner?

kceire wrote: »

Can anybody point me on how to count the stages on any given route?

Look at the bottom of any timetable on the Dublin Bus website.

KD345 wrote: »

Last week was interesting, while for some routes there was plenty of running time, for others, it was a struggle to meet the timetable. Traffic issues around the city centre and some shopping centers caused severe delays for buses. I take your point about buses arriving ahead of schedule, but driver changeovers shouldn't be for passengers to worry about, regardless of what day/time of year it is. Driver handovers mid route now seems to be the biggest gripe passengers have, and rightly so. At a time when Dublin Bus are reducing service yet increasing fares, they should be making sure the passengers they still have are not put out. Sitting at Hawkins Street/College Green/Eden Quay/Donnybrook for 15 minutes is simply not acceptable.

I accept drawing up drivers rosters is a complicated task, but I'm assuming the people doing this job are qualified and well paid. They have a duty to ensure that while the roster suits the driver, it also suits the passenger. If there are known problems, which there are, then you must change that roster as soon as possible. Having hundreds of passengers/customers disrupted every day is not a way to encourage bus travel.

Unless you have timetables redesigned to meet the lack of any traffic then inevitably buses are going to arrive early - that is the only solution to last week's issues. The conditions prevailing last week were completely unique compared to any other week of the year, and only for that week. That's why (I am blue in the face saying it) it should have been a Saturday timetable, with fewer early morning services, and running times that would compare reasonably with the traffic conditions.

However, that would presumably have to be negotiated with staff as there would be issues of who would be working and who wouldn't etc.

markpb wrote: »

Like the "Earlsfort Terrace / Clonmel St" stage on the 15 - Clonmel St being off Harcourt St and nowhere near the 15 route

Or Stage 84 on the 27b - Ardlea Rd. Where on Ardlea road is that?

Or Stage 12 on the 16a - Corner Collinstown Rd. - What corner?

In no way am I suggesting the stage system works. It doesn't. I'm just trying to explain how Dublin Bus expects it to work.

foggy_lad wrote: »

timetables only list stages up to a certain distance from the city centre and after than the customer must guess!

That is incorrect. Timetables list all stages except for outer suburban routes which come as separate stage sheets/web pages.

lxflyer wrote: »

Unless you have timetables redesigned to meet the lack of any traffic then inevitably buses are going to arrive early - that is the only solution to last week's issues. The conditions prevailing last week were completely unique compared to any other week of the year, and only for that week. That's why (I am blue in the face saying it) it should have been a Saturday timetable, with fewer early morning services, and running times that would compare reasonably with the traffic conditions.

However, that would presumably have to be negotiated with staff as there would be issues of who would be working and who wouldn't etc.

Putting the 3 days last week aside, there are ongoing serious problems with driver handovers on certain routes. These issues need to be addressed. There is no excuse for passengers to be left sitting on buses waiting for a driver to arrive. It reflects badly on the route which ultimately becomes unreliable.