Seanie Johnston Kildare Transfer?

MickySticks

Ballocavendish wrote: »

What is this oxegen incident you talk about??

http://bigredbench.blogspot.com/2009/07/cavan-players-take-in-some-oxegen.html

tayto lover

Tom Joad wrote: »

Haven't heard about Lyng returning. I don't understand this talk of Andrews taking a dislike to players and from what I heard there is no discontent in the panel!! I really wish we could move on from the Johnston stuff - he's gone end off. The crap that has been talked around the county since the game against Wexford is unbelievable - Johnston isn't a defender or a goalkeeper so how he would have prevented 4 goals is beyond me. You wont win games conceding 4 goals.

There is also an unbelievable arrogance that really annoys me about some Cavan supporters that still think we are better than teams like Wexford - fact is we are not and are in the bottom 7/8 county teams in the country - with or without Johnston.

We have had this for way too long in Cavan, build up team to a ridiculous level based on very little, act with shock when we have a poor league or get knocked out of the championship, turn our arses at the qualifiers because they are beneath us, then round on the manager!!! Look where this has got us in the last twenty years - it has to stop.

I would say that the current situation shows that Andrews has the guts to take on the so called superstar on the panel that doesn't appear to be committed to the cause. Remember the debacle in Cork two years ago or the Oxegen incident!!! I for one will back Andrews in any decision he makes that leads to a united/ disciplined team that goes on the pitch and fights for the jersey. Its a young team that has to make its mistakes and losing to Wexford in Wexford in February is no disgrace - lets move on and back the team and the manager and hopefully we might get a bit of pride back in the jersey. We've tried the other way and it doesn't work.

Sorry Mickysticks this is not a rant against you - just quoted your post because of the reference to Lyng.

Your post is very good but it still does not answer my question -- Were all other options tried before these players were dropped off the Cavan panel ? Did the manager sit down with them and tell them what he expected and what his standards were ? My questions are not about Andrews as a manager but more about his man management. If he tried all options to keep his senior players on board and they broke the rules then he is right to have dropped them but if he didn't then his man management skills are again lacking just like when he was over Louth. I would really like to know. If someone was dropped on a 10 second phonecall then it seems unfair to me as I believe they should have been sat down and informed properly.

jonniebgood1

tayto lover wrote: »

Your post is very good but it still does not answer my question -- Were all other options tried before these players were dropped off the Cavan panel ? Did the manager sit down with them and tell them what he expected and what his standards were ? My questions are not about Andrews as a manager but more about his man management. If he tried all options to keep his senior players on board and they broke the rules then he is right to have dropped them but if he didn't then his man management skills are again lacking just like when he was over Louth. I would really like to know. If someone was dropped on a 10 second phonecall then it seems unfair to me as I believe they should have been sat down and informed properly.

There has for many years been a problem with 'player power' in Cavan. This has been evidenced publicly on many occasions. I would put alot the current unrest down to the same thing. Most of their recent championships have been disrupted by the big time charlie attitudes and this has been put in the public domain by more than 1 ex manager. I remember reading a long article by their former manager Keogan who was in disbelief at the attitude of players in comparison to the under 21's who he had previously managed.

Tom Joad

tayto lover wrote: »

Your post is very good but it still does not answer my question -- Were all other options tried before these players were dropped off the Cavan panel ? Did the manager sit down with them and tell them what he expected and what his standards were ? My questions are not about Andrews as a manager but more about his man management. If he tried all options to keep his senior players on board and they broke the rules then he is right to have dropped them but if he didn't then his man management skills are again lacking just like when he was over Louth. I would really like to know. If someone was dropped on a 10 second phonecall then it seems unfair to me as I believe they should have been sat down and informed properly.

I guess we will never know what really happened but a lot of people in Cavan were not surprised that it came to this. You seem to be puzzled as to why Cavan fans are not jumping up and down above losing our star player to another county - simple truth is this poor attitude has been going on for years in Cavan football and if some of the stories about the behaviour of some of the squad over the years are true then I say fair play Andrews - about time someone took a stand.

Not trying to be funny with you but your difficulty in understanding our backing th manager is that you are judging this situation by "normal" standards - vast majority of Cavan fans are sick and tired of poor discipline and attitude of players over the years.

tayto lover

Tom Joad wrote: »

I guess we will never know what really happened but a lot of people in Cavan were not surprised that it came to this. You seem to be puzzled as to why Cavan fans are not jumping up and down above losing our star player to another county - simple truth is this poor attitude has been going on for years in Cavan football and if some of the stories about the behaviour of some of the squad over the years are true then I say fair play Andrews - about time someone took a stand.

Not trying to be funny with you but your difficulty in understanding our backing th manager is that you are judging this situation by "normal" standards - vast majority of Cavan fans are sick and tired of poor discipline and attitude of players over the years.

O.K. then we will never know and thanks for answering without attacking me like another poster from your county.

cruiserweight

tayto lover wrote: »

O.K. then we will never know and thanks for answering without attacking me like another poster from your county.

That has been dealt with so please drop it now. If you don't like other peoples posts then put them on ignore, but goading them is not the answer. This is the second and last time that I will warn you on this thread.

tayto lover

cruiserweight wrote: »

That has been dealt with so please drop it now. If you don't like other peoples posts then put them on ignore, but goading them is not the answer. This is the second and last time that I will warn you on this thread.

Good man yourself. You're a breath of hot air.

cruiserweight

tayto lover wrote: »

Good man yourself. You're a breath of hot air.

Fair enough, enjoy your ban

Lemlin

tayto lover wrote: »

O.K. then we will never know and thanks for answering without attacking me like another poster from your county.

I 'attacked' you because there's no doubting you have an agenda. No matter what response was given you came back with the same question but worded differently.

The people of Cavan are weighing in behind Andrews. He mightn't be a great manager, or tactician, but he is doing what has been required for a long time and the fact that he has the bravery to do it is enough for most.

As Tom Joad put it so brilliantly, Cavan are a long way from going down South and beating a team who made the Leinster final last year.

Lemlin

MickySticks wrote: »

Has Michael Lyng returned to the Cavan panel? I hear Andrews has taken a dislike to him as well, Lyng and Johnston are probably the best two footballers in Cavan. It's a sad indictment on Val Andrews.

And where did you get that opinion from? Lyng was a great talent a few years back but injuries meant he lost alot of his speed and he's nowhere near the footballer he should have been.

He's in no way one of the best footballers in Cavan. I was surprised to see him back in the panel last year and I didn't have him in my proposed starting 15 for the championship last year either.

Lemlin

tayto lover wrote: »

Your post is very good but it still does not answer my question -- Were all other options tried before these players were dropped off the Cavan panel ? Did the manager sit down with them and tell them what he expected and what his standards were ? My questions are not about Andrews as a manager but more about his man management. If he tried all options to keep his senior players on board and they broke the rules then he is right to have dropped them but if he didn't then his man management skills are again lacking just like when he was over Louth. I would really like to know. If someone was dropped on a 10 second phonecall then it seems unfair to me as I believe they should have been sat down and informed properly.

I don't see how you can make an assertion that all other options were not explored - these lads were a full year working with the panel so Val knows them and their attitude towards Cavan GAA now. It's not like he walked in, said I don't like the look of these lads, and dropped them.

I'd imagine over the entire course of the year last year he talked the entire panel, including these players, through what was expected. So they should be well aware of what's expected.

Val went out of his way to make the calls out of courtesy. The panel was entirely disbanded last year by letter. He didn't need to ring these lads but chose to out of courtesy.

The ten second phone call - who is to say who hung up on who? Johnston was obviously already annoyed because he knew the call was coming but I can't see why Lyng would be given a reason and Johnston wouldn't, unless he ended the call himself.

tayto lover

Lemlin wrote: »

I 'attacked' you because there's no doubting you have an agenda. No matter what response was given you came back with the same question but worded differently.

The people of Cavan are weighing in behind Andrews. He mightn't be a great manager, or tactician, but he is doing what has been required for a long time and the fact that he has the bravery to do it is enough for most.

As Tom Joad put it so brilliantly, Cavan are a long way from going down South and beating a team who made the Leinster final last year.

And what did any of you say about Longford who are just up from Division 4 and again beat Cavan in their own backyard and only allowed them to score 7 points ? You could have been doing with Sean |Johnston for sure. Yes Andrews is your saviour alright. I have no agenda except to say that he will ruin Cavan just like he ruined Louth for a long time. He gets rid of anyone who questions his decisions. The man hasn't a clue but again don't pass any remarks of what I say and continue to follow blindly. When he has you in Division 4 you might realise just how good he is. Div 4 and your best players gone or disillusioned is the way forward for you under him it seems as you like him and trust him so much.

Hammer Archer

The CCCC will decide on this tomorrow supposedly. If he's living in Kildare then there should be no problem in him providing bills/rental agreement to prove that and he'll probably get the transfer.
Assuming he is, surely Andrews dropping him from the Cavan panel was the best thing for him as it would have been impossible for him to travel to Cavan regularly for training.

Lemlin

tayto lover wrote: »

And what did any of you say about Longford who are just up from Division 4 and again beat Cavan in their own backyard and only allowed them to score 7 points ? You could have been doing with Sean |Johnston for sure. Yes Andrews is your saviour alright. I have no agenda except to say that he will ruin Cavan just like he ruined Louth for a long time. He gets rid of anyone who questions his decisions. The man hasn't a clue but again don't pass any remarks of what I say and continue to follow blindly. When he has you in Division 4 you might realise just how good he is. Div 4 and your best players gone or disillusioned is the way forward for you under him it seems as you like him and trust him so much.

And why exactly could we have been doing with Seanie Johnston for sure? Cavan lost 2-16 to 0-11 to Longford last year with Johnston playing. He scored 3 points, 2 from frees. So Cavan lost by 3 points on Saturday and by 12 when Johnston played last year. So, again, I fail to see your point?

And, I'll ask again, what's your agenda here? Other than to endlessly come onto the thread and complain about Val Andrews. Cavan were in Division 3 when Val arrived and hopefully we'll stay in Division 3. To be honest, Division 3 is our level.

tayto lover

Lemlin wrote: »

And why exactly could we have been doing with Seanie Johnston for sure? Cavan lost 2-16 to 0-11 to Longford last year with Johnston playing. He scored 3 points, 2 from frees. So Cavan lost by 3 points on Saturday and by 12 when Johnston played last year. So, again, I fail to see your point?

And, I'll ask again, what's your agenda here? Other than to endlessly come onto the thread and complain about Val Andrews. Cavan were in Division 3 when Val arrived and hopefully we'll stay in Division 3. To be honest, Division 3 is our level.

How many times will you ignore my point that Andrews is a bad man manager and a dictator ?
You choose to ignore that fact by stating that some of your players were a bad influence in the dressingroom. Yet when those players were let go by Andrews things don't improve. You also say that Cavan supporters are behind Andrews but from reading the Cavan Hogan Stand boards that is not the case either.
I see another Cavan player walked away from Andrews now too, Mc Cutheon, and there will be more, just like what happened in Louth.
But don't mind me continue to follow like lemmings or should it be Lemlins.
Cavan need all the good players they can get. Fact. Division 4 beckons and then you will be happy. I know a lot of Cavan supporters and they are not happy at all with the situation and I actually spoke to two who were at the game on Sat and they are disgusted with the lack of know-how from the sideline during the game. But again continue to be happy while watching your new crop of good players being ruined by an inept manager with zero qualities.

Lemlin

tayto lover wrote: »

How many times will you ignore my point that Andrews is a bad man manager and a dictator ?
You choose to ignore that fact by stating that some of your players were a bad influence in the dressingroom. Yet when those players were let go by Andrews things don't improve. You also say that Cavan supporters are behind Andrews but from reading the Cavan Hogan Stand boards that is not the case either.
I see another Cavan player walked away from Andrews now too, Mc Cutheon, and there will be more, just like what happened in Louth.
But don't mind me continue to follow like lemmings or should it be Lemlins.
Cavan need all the good players they can get. Fact. Division 4 beckons and then you will be happy. I know a lot of Cavan supporters and they are not happy at all with the situation and I actually spoke to two who were at the game on Sat and they are disgusted with the lack of know-how from the sideline during the game. But again continue to be happy while watching your new crop of good players being ruined by an inept manager with zero qualities.

How did things not improve? Cavan lost by 12 points last year to Longford. They lost by 3 this year. Is that not an improvement or am I missing something?

MickySticks

Lemlin wrote: »

How did things not improve? Cavan lost by 12 points last year to Longford. They lost by 3 this year. Is that not an improvement or am I missing something?

So you think they have improved since Andrews decided to drop Johnston, by far the best player Cavan had in recent years? Give me a break FFS.

Gophur

MickySticks wrote: »

So you think they have improved since Andrews decided to drop Johnston, by far the best player Cavan had in recent years? Give me a break FFS.

Johnston had to be dropped because of his steadfast refusal to buy into the team-ethic and his self-appointed star status. He was un-coachable, he refused to do what was asked, demanded, ordered off him.

How could you have a team manager demanding 100% from all but one of his panel?

How could you have Johnston demanding special rights and privileges?

MickySticks

Gophur wrote: »

Johnston had to be dropped because of his steadfast refusal to buy into the team-ethic and his self-appointed star status. He was un-coachable, he refused to do what was asked, demanded, ordered off him.

How could you have a team manager demanding 100% from all but one of his panel?

How could you have Johnston demanding special rights and privileges?

Eh who said he was a "self appointed star", "un-coachable", "demanding" and "un co-operative"? Did members of the Cavan panel tell you this personally or are you just taking wild guesses?

premierstone

Gophur wrote: »

Johnston had to be dropped because of his steadfast refusal to buy into the team-ethic and his self-appointed star status. He was un-coachable, he refused to do what was asked, demanded, ordered off him.

How could you have Johnston demanding special rights and privileges?

Wow thats a pretty serious allegation you are making against Johnson, have you anything to back it up?? Not asaying you are incorrect btw, just would like to know what you are basing this on.

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

Wow thats a pretty serious allegation you are making against Johnson, have you anything to back it up?? Not asaying you are incorrect btw, just would like to know what you are basing this on.

I would imagine he's basing it on the numerous rumours around the county. I've heard plenty of these myself and none have given a very positive view of Seanie.

They are rumours though and that's why I have chosen not to comment on them on here myself.

I've asked a few members of the panel that I know myself and received their views but I won't be posting what I was told here either because, to be honest, I've nothing to back it up here and also, anyone I did ask, didn't want to comment too much.

Lemlin

MickySticks wrote: »

So you think they have improved since Andrews decided to drop Johnston, by far the best player Cavan had in recent years? Give me a break FFS.

I was answering a poster who said "You choose to ignore that fact by stating that some of your players were a bad influence in the dressingroom. Yet when those players were let go by Andrews things don't improve".

To me losing to a team by 3 points as opposed to 12 is a marked improvement.

Would you not agree?

tayto lover

Lemlin wrote: »

How did things not improve? Cavan lost by 12 points last year to Longford. They lost by 3 this year. Is that not an improvement or am I missing something?

You cannot compare like with like in those two games. A bit naive of you there. Cavan had been hammered the previous week by Donegal in the first round of the c/ship and their heads were obviously down. This is a league campaign in which Andrews was promising to gain promotion. But he is a man of excuses and he had already two losses under his belt so he will continue to chop and change and hope/pray for something good to happen. Then players will get more disillusioned and more will walk and Andrews tenure will cease. Same ol, same ol,. My two Cavan friends could not believe the inability of the men on the sideline to fix obvious gaping holes in the team last Saturday and from reading your county Hogan Stand boards neither could many of the posters there.

Gophur

MickySticks wrote: »

Eh who said he was a "self appointed star", "un-coachable", "demanding" and "un co-operative"? Did members of the Cavan panel tell you this personally or are you just taking wild guesses?

Do you expect me to name names?

premierstone wrote: »

Wow thats a pretty serious allegation you are making against Johnson, have you anything to back it up?? Not asaying you are incorrect btw, just would like to know what you are basing this on.

c.f. above

tayto lover

Here is just what one of the many Cavan supporters had to say on the Cavan forum after the Longford game -

G.A.Cavan vs Longford NFL Div 3
sorry to disappoint you, but I am far from happy...
in fact I am angry...
Angry at how directionless the good ship Cavan has become.
great ingredients, ruined by a poor chef
discord in the ranks if the reports that McCutchen has left are correct.
all talk of promotion, and two games in we are tied bottom of division 3 (on points differiential) with ZERO points
I am not Happy, I like many are angry
cav01

That's only a sample now.

Hammer Archer

tayto lover wrote: »

This is a league campaign in which Andrews was promising to gain promotion.

Where did he promise that?

Lemlin

tayto lover wrote: »

You cannot compare like with like in those two games. A bit naive of you there. Cavan had been hammered the previous week by Donegal in the first round of the c/ship and their heads were obviously down. This is a league campaign in which Andrews was promising to gain promotion. But he is a man of excuses and he had already two losses under his belt so he will continue to chop and change and hope/pray for something good to happen. Then players will get more disillusioned and more will walk and Andrews tenure will cease. Same ol, same ol,. My two Cavan friends could not believe the inability of the men on the sideline to fix obvious gaping holes in the team last Saturday and from reading your county Hogan Stand boards neither could many of the posters there.

How is it naive? A game against the same opposition in the same location. I don't think you could get a better example as a marker.

Cavan played Donegal on the 12th June 2011. They played Longford on the 25th June 2011. That's two weeks to prepare, as much as any team can expect when in the qualifiers. Do you ever get tired of being wrong and having it proven time and time again?

If I wanted to post on the Hogan Stand, I'd go and post there. I am addressing this board, one which I come to because there's mainly reasoned and educated commentary, unlike HS. If you want to go and talk to the lads in the Hogan Stand, off you go.

If your two Cavan friends want to come here and post, I'd suggest you give them the url. It's funny how they back up all your views exactly.

tayto lover

Lemlin wrote: »

How is it naive? A game against the same opposition in the same location. I don't think you could get a better example as a marker.

Cavan played Donegal on the 12th June 2011. They played Longford on the 25th June 2011. That's two weeks to prepare, as much as any team can expect when in the qualifiers. Do you ever get tired of being wrong and having it proven time and time again?

If I wanted to post on the Hogan Stand, I'd go and post there. I am addressing this board, one which I come to because there's mainly reasoned and educated commentary, unlike HS. If you want to go and talk to the lads in the Hogan Stand, off you go.

If your two Cavan friends want to come here and post, I'd suggest you give them the url. It's funny how they back up all your views exactly.

Ha ha you don't like your views questioned at all, do you ?
You were the first to mention Hogan Stand too back a few pages but it now doesn't suit you. Reasoned and educated ??? Don't make me laugh please. As soon as someone disagrees with you then its on to the insults. Reasoned and educated indeed. This is my last post on the matter and you can have your mate Andrews, he will suit you entirely as he is the same when someone doesn't agree with him. Hissy fits. Have a nice time in London next year. Seanie Johnston was too good for you anyway. I'd safely say most of the true Cavan supporters back up my view on Andrews as they players are doing now i.e. voting with their feet. Bye bye.

Hammer Archer

tayto lover wrote: »

Ha ha you don't like your views questioned at all, do you ?
You were the first to mention Hogan Stand too back a few pages but it now doesn't suit you. Reasoned and educated ??? Don't make me laugh please. As soon as someone disagrees with you then its on to the insults. Reasoned and educated indeed. This is my last post on the matter and you can have your mate Andrews, he will suit you entirely as he is the same when someone doesn't agree with him. Hissy fits. Have a nice time in London next year. Seanie Johnston was too good for you anyway. I'd safely say most of the true Cavan supporters back up my view on Andrews as they players are doing now i.e. voting with their feet. Bye bye.

Before you go can you show where Andrews promised to gain promotion? You seem to have skipped over my question, conveniently or not.

Lemlin

tayto lover wrote: »

Ha ha you don't like your views questioned at all, do you ?
You were the first to mention Hogan Stand too back a few pages but it now doesn't suit you. Reasoned and educated ??? Don't make me laugh please. As soon as someone disagrees with you then its on to the insults. Reasoned and educated indeed. This is my last post on the matter and you can have your mate Andrews, he will suit you entirely as he is the same when someone doesn't agree with him. Hissy fits. Have a nice time in London next year. Seanie Johnston was too good for you anyway. I'd safely say most of the true Cavan supporters back up my view on Andrews as they players are doing now i.e. voting with their feet. Bye bye.

Where did I have a problem with my views being questioned? You've made multiple comments which I have proven to be incorrect.

A few posts above you stated that:

"I see another Cavan player walked away from Andrews now too, Mc Cutheon, and there will be more, just like what happened in Louth".

Yet another incorrect opinion. None of the other players walked away. They weren't asked back or were told they weren't required. If McCutcheon has walked, then he is the first player to walk away from the panel of his own accord.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me if they can provide reasoned and educated debate behind their points. You cannot.
I admit myself I was wrong to let your incessant ramblings get to me previously but the bottom line is that I've proven you wrong time and time again by calling out your inaccuracies and asking you questions that you can't answer so now you walk away.

Lemlin

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Before you go can you show where Andrews promised to gain promotion? You seem to have skipped over my question, conveniently or not.

I wouldn't worry about it Hammar, if he was to go back over my posts and try to answer all the queries that he's ignored, we'll be here a while.

bruschi

I find it odd that someone from Louth is so vocal in the goings on in Cavan and is so interested in the whole saga.

Personally, I think Andrews is right to an extent, but I think his managerial abilities then let him down. In that he was right to start a clean slate and clear out the old guard in Cavan if it wasnt working, but I dont think he is good enough to work with what he has.

He is in a no win situation, regardless of his abilities. He keeps the old heads, and gets the same results Cavan have got for the last few years. He changes things around, and Cavan will suffer for a couple of years in transition, and he will be blamed. But realistically, can Cavan be any worse than where they were 2/3 years ago? By this time next year they will have blooded a pretty much whole new team that has the age on their side to last another 10 years.

If a change is needed to move things on, then you may as well do it right. I wouldnt agree with certain things he does, or in the manner he does, (because at the end of it all, no one, but him and Johnston know whether or not the situation was able to be resolved, and no one knows about this "ten second" phone call either) but he has to be given a chance taking over what in reality is a poisoned chalice.

Just as a comparison, Cavan beat Wexford last year in the AI U21 semi final. When Wexford played Cavan, they had no players from that side playing, either in the first 15 or coming on as subs. Whereas Cavan had, if I can count it correctly, 4 starting, and more the last day against Longford. They are a team in transition from a dark era, and need time.

Someone mentioned previously that there is a false expectation in Cavan and an unrealistic evaluation of where they are as a team, and I can fully see that. Living on past glorys and of eras gone by. I understand that completley as a Wexford hurling follower, but its a different story with our footballers, who are still trying to earn their right to be considered a decent side. Cavan are now facing up to reality that a full rebuilding process is needed, and that wont happen overnight, whether its Andrews at the wheel or whoever ends up there.

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

Wow thats a pretty serious allegation you are making against Johnson, have you anything to back it up?? Not asaying you are incorrect btw, just would like to know what you are basing this on.

One fact I have no problem mentioning:

Johnston started last season as Cavan Gaels captain. He ended the season stripped of the captaincy, and being used only as a sub in the first few Championship games, despite being injury free.

Read into that what you will.

tayto lover

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Before you go can you show where Andrews promised to gain promotion? You seem to have skipped over my question, conveniently or not.

In an interview on Northern Sound Radio about 4 weeks ago Andrews said he saw no reason why Cavan could not be in Division 2 N.F.L. next year.
Now not a promise as such but a big statement nevertheless and I wonder what he would say now. Still possible but hardly likely.

tayto lover

Lemlin wrote: »

Where did I have a problem with my views being questioned? You've made multiple comments which I have proven to be incorrect.

A few posts above you stated that:

"I see another Cavan player walked away from Andrews now too, Mc Cutheon, and there will be more, just like what happened in Louth".

Yet another incorrect opinion. None of the other players walked away. They weren't asked back or were told they weren't required. If McCutcheon has walked, then he is the first player to walk away from the panel of his own accord.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me if they can provide reasoned and educated debate behind their points. You cannot.
I admit myself I was wrong to let your incessant ramblings get to me previously but the bottom line is that I've proven you wrong time and time again by calling out your inaccuracies and asking you questions that you can't answer so now you walk away.

My Cavan friend has told me on the phone just now that John McCutchon from Cootehill has left the panel and that several weeks ago Alan Clarke from Kingscourt did likewise.
Thought you would have known that.
If you want any other news just ask as my Cavan friends seem to be more up to date than you are. Bye bye.

tayto lover

Lemlin wrote: »

Where did I have a problem with my views being questioned? You've made multiple comments which I have proven to be incorrect.

A few posts above you stated that:

"I see another Cavan player walked away from Andrews now too, Mc Cutheon, and there will be more, just like what happened in Louth".

Yet another incorrect opinion. None of the other players walked away. They weren't asked back or were told they weren't required. If McCutcheon has walked, then he is the first player to walk away from the panel of his own accord.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me if they can provide reasoned and educated debate behind their points. You cannot.
I admit myself I was wrong to let your incessant ramblings get to me previously but the bottom line is that I've proven you wrong time and time again by calling out your inaccuracies and asking you questions that you can't answer so now you walk away.

My Cavan friend has told me on the phone just now that John McCutchon from Cootehill has left the panel and that previously Alan Clarke from Kingscourt did likewise.
Thought you would have known that.
If you want any other news just ask as my Cavan friends seem to be more up to date than you are. Bye bye.

Tom Joad

Tatyo lover - your mates from Cavan sound like exactly what I have been talking about that is wrong with Cavan football - you also seem to have serious issues with Andrews from whatever happened in Louth. Andrews was involved in the Cavan set-up previously and was asked back so seems at odds with him being a tyrant.

If I wanted to read the histrionics of keyboard warriors who "could have won Cavan at least one all-ireland if somebody in Breffni Park had noticed their ability at under-12" I'd go to the HoganStand. I'd prefer an intelligent discussion so that's why I post here.

We have lost two league games with young inexperienced guys - don't think it's time to sack the manager just yet :rolleyes:. I was at the game on Saturday night and took some positives away from it. Its a long road back from where Cavan have been in the past but I do believe that we are making progress - it will be slow and there will be more tough days but for God's say can we stop calling for the managers head in February!!!

Good post bruschi - one of the most encouraging posts for Cavan supporters I have seen in a while - your not the first Wexford hurling supporter that has equated the dark days of Cavan with the pre-Glory days of Wexford - We can live and hope.

tayto lover

Tom Joad wrote: »

Tatyo lover - your mates from Cavan sound like exactly what I have been talking about that is wrong with Cavan football - you also seem to have serious issues with Andrews from whatever happened in Louth. Andrews was involved in the Cavan set-up previously and was asked back so seems at odds with him being a tyrant.

If I wanted to read the histrionics of keyboard warriors who "could have won Cavan at least one all-ireland if somebody in Breffni Park had noticed their ability at under-12" I'd go to the HoganStand. I'd prefer an intelligent discussion so that's why I post here.

We have lost two league games with young inexperienced guys - don't think it's time to sack the manager just yet :rolleyes:. I was at the game on Saturday night and took some positives away from it. Its a long road back from where Cavan have been in the past but I do believe that we are making progress - it will be slow and there will be more tough days but for God's say can we stop calling for the managers head in February!!!

Good post bruschi - one of the most encouraging posts for Cavan supporters I have seen in a while - your not the first Wexford hurling supporter that has equated the dark days of Cavan with the pre-Glory days of Wexford - We can live and hope.

Well what about the performance of the mentors as some Cavan people have been pointing out. By the way i'm not calling for anyones head as i have little interest except from listening to my Cavan friends but Andrews had the same kind of mentality when he took over here and it all went south in no time. I think Cavan could have got a better manager than him, that's my point really.

Tom Joad

tayto lover wrote: »

Well what about the performance of the mentors as some Cavan people have been pointing out. By the way i'm not calling for anyones head as i have little interest except from listening to my Cavan friends but Andrews had the same kind of mentality when he took over here and it all went south in no time. I think Cavan could have got a better manager than him, that's my point really.

Not sure what was going on there to be honest - from where I was in the ground looked like one of the selectors had lost count of the amount of subs used - gave me a bit of a laugh but for people to be using that as an example of the system, management structure being a shambles - come on - a bit of perspective!!!

Am sure there are plenty of good managers out there that we would love to see - but to be honest Cavan aren't exactly a good prospect for some of the big names.

Andrews wouldn't have been my first choice to be honest but if he is a disciplinarian that is exactly what we need - I'll back him as the manager until I see with my own eyes that he's not the right man and then I will have no problem calling for a new manager but we need to give him time and stop loading ridiculous pressure on him and the panel..

By the way, AFAIK Toasty can't commit the time to the panel for personal/ work reasons so i'm not sure what the story being created is here!! - I would love to see him on the panel as he is a good player and a good leader on the field however I understand that he has other commitments and can't commit and I respect that.

Lemlin

tayto lover wrote: »

In an interview on Northern Sound Radio about 4 weeks ago Andrews said he saw no reason why Cavan could not be in Division 2 N.F.L. next year.
Now not a promise as such but a big statement nevertheless and I wonder what he would say now. Still possible but hardly likely.

Now I'll emphasis the important part of your post: "Now not a promise as such" and then I'll compare it to your earlier post "This is a league campaign in which Andrews was promising to gain promotion".
Do I need to say anymore?

tayto lover wrote: »

My Cavan friend has told me on the phone just now that John McCutchon from Cootehill has left the panel and that several weeks ago Alan Clarke from Kingscourt did likewise.
Thought you would have known that.
If you want any other news just ask as my Cavan friends seem to be more up to date than you are. Bye bye.

If your Cavan friends want to post then, as suggested previously, why don't you give them the url? As for Alan Clarke, he did not leave the panel. He asked not to be considered for a period due to work commitments. Tom Joad has also spelled this out above. A number of players did the same last year - Robert Maloney Dernham couldn't play for the U21s due to college exams, Oisin Minagh couldn't play for the seniors as he felt he had played enough football having played in the U21 championship. There's two examples. It happens all the time on panels all over the country.

tayto lover wrote: »

Ha ha you don't like your views questioned at all, do you ?
You were the first to mention Hogan Stand too back a few pages but it now doesn't suit you. Reasoned and educated ??? Don't make me laugh please. As soon as someone disagrees with you then its on to the insults. Reasoned and educated indeed. This is my last post on the matter and you can have your mate Andrews, he will suit you entirely as he is the same when someone doesn't agree with him. Hissy fits. Have a nice time in London next year. Seanie Johnston was too good for you anyway. I'd safely say most of the true Cavan supporters back up my view on Andrews as they players are doing now i.e. voting with their feet. Bye bye.

You've made a number of personal comments about Val at this stage so, again, I'll ask you what's your personal agenda here? For someone who has previously not posted on the GAA forum in 4,000+ posts in less than a year on Boards, you've very strong views on Val Andrews. Other posters have also commented on it. Are you the relation of a disgruntled Louth player? Alot of your comments are of a personal nature referring to his personality rather than his actual ability.

I'll be honest, for me, Andrews isn't enough of a dictator. Cavan football has needed a dictator who pulls no punches for a long time. That's why I'd prefer to see Terry Hyland in there on his own.

Lemlin

bruschi wrote: »

I find it odd that someone from Louth is so vocal in the goings on in Cavan and is so interested in the whole saga.

Personally, I think Andrews is right to an extent, but I think his managerial abilities then let him down. In that he was right to start a clean slate and clear out the old guard in Cavan if it wasnt working, but I dont think he is good enough to work with what he has.

He is in a no win situation, regardless of his abilities. He keeps the old heads, and gets the same results Cavan have got for the last few years. He changes things around, and Cavan will suffer for a couple of years in transition, and he will be blamed. But realistically, can Cavan be any worse than where they were 2/3 years ago? By this time next year they will have blooded a pretty much whole new team that has the age on their side to last another 10 years.

If a change is needed to move things on, then you may as well do it right. I wouldnt agree with certain things he does, or in the manner he does, (because at the end of it all, no one, but him and Johnston know whether or not the situation was able to be resolved, and no one knows about this "ten second" phone call either) but he has to be given a chance taking over what in reality is a poisoned chalice.

Just as a comparison, Cavan beat Wexford last year in the AI U21 semi final. When Wexford played Cavan, they had no players from that side playing, either in the first 15 or coming on as subs. Whereas Cavan had, if I can count it correctly, 4 starting, and more the last day against Longford. They are a team in transition from a dark era, and need time.

Someone mentioned previously that there is a false expectation in Cavan and an unrealistic evaluation of where they are as a team, and I can fully see that. Living on past glorys and of eras gone by. I understand that completley as a Wexford hurling follower, but its a different story with our footballers, who are still trying to earn their right to be considered a decent side. Cavan are now facing up to reality that a full rebuilding process is needed, and that wont happen overnight, whether its Andrews at the wheel or whoever ends up there.

Excellent post. To be honest, it still haunts me to this day that Cavan missed out on Peter Canavan when he was on our doorstep.

However, if all Andrews does is instill a bit of professionalism and pride in the camp, then he will have done a job that should have been done in Cavan years ago.

Cavan had 7 U21 players from last year starting against Longford. The rebuilding is starting and hopefully there'll be a much more motivated camp for the next manager to work with.

Turning Cavan football around is going to take more than a couple of years.

Gophur

Andrew Mk1 left because he was appointed for a three year spell yet one senior club insisted a vote of confidence be held after one year. Andrews felt this went against his deal and walked (rightly, IMO).

This time he's adopting a similar approach, a long term approach. The successful under-age teams of last year need to be nurtured and slowly integrated into the senior set-up. If it works then great. If it doesn't, then it's back to another drawing board.

(As for Canavan? What credentials does he have? A successful player does not mean he'd be a successful manager or coach.)

cavan4sam

Gophur wrote: »

Andrew Mk1 left because he was appointed for a three year spell yet one senior club insisted a vote of confidence be held after one year. Andrews felt this went against his deal and walked (rightly, IMO).

This time he's adopting a similar approach, a long term approach. The successful under-age teams of last year need to be nurtured and slowly integrated into the senior set-up. If it works then great. If it doesn't, then it's back to another drawing board.

(As for Canavan? What credentials does he have? A successful player does not mean he'd be a successful manager or coach.)

correct me if i'm wrong but i think canavan has been sucessfull at colleges level where he teaches ,
i think belief when players get to senior level is a major problem and i know this from a personal level (i've worn the blue at all levels ) it seems that we can compete at underage being gallant losers with the exception of last year but at senior level we just dont have the belief to push teams to the limit when we are in championship action ,i'll probably get shot for this but i believe a year in division 4 will do us no harm as a team that get into the habit of winning games gain confidence and a winning mentality and may just be a little more mature and stronger able for a very competitive div 3 ,

Lemlin

Gophur wrote: »

Andrew Mk1 left because he was appointed for a three year spell yet one senior club insisted a vote of confidence be held after one year. Andrews felt this went against his deal and walked (rightly, IMO).

This time he's adopting a similar approach, a long term approach. The successful under-age teams of last year need to be nurtured and slowly integrated into the senior set-up. If it works then great. If it doesn't, then it's back to another drawing board.

(As for Canavan? What credentials does he have? A successful player does not mean he'd be a successful manager or coach.)

Would being coached by a man who has played in 3 All-Ireland finals, winning two, and a man named as one of 125 Most Influential People in GAA History by the Sunday Tribune not motivate you to push that bit further?

It's early days for Canavan with Fermanagh but he's making all the right noises so far.

Gophur

Lemlin wrote: »

Would being coached by a man who has played in 3 All-Ireland finals, winning two, and a man named as one of 125 Most Influential People in GAA History by the Sunday Tribune not motivate you to push that bit further?

..............

No.

It's such ridiculous deference that has given us so many bad coaches over the years.

premierstone

Gophur wrote: »

No.

It's such ridiculous deference that has given us so many bad coaches over the years.

Are you actually saying you are happy to have appointed Val Andrews over a proven winner like Peter Canavan?? :eek:

MickySticks

Gophur wrote: »

No.

It's such ridiculous deference that has given us so many bad coaches over the years.

Like who? How many 3 time AI winners and countless All-Star recipients have Cavan had as manger in recent years?

Lemlin

Gophur wrote: »

No.

It's such ridiculous deference that has given us so many bad coaches over the years.

Bad coaches like Kieran McGeeney? Kildare took a punt on him and he hasn't done too badly.

Canavan lives and breathes the GAA. He wasn't just another good player. He's Peter Canavan.

Fermanagh's performances under him have already improved hugely. I'll agree that not all top players are ready to be coaches but I'd certainly give Canavan the benefit of the doubt.

He's been around the top players and a top manager for years, and he knows what it takes to win matches.

One man I think Cavan should have gone for years ago is Justin McNulty, who managed Mullahoran to the county title in 2007 I think it was. He had knowledge of football in the county and should have been approached before Laois got him.

Gophur

premierstone wrote: »

Are you actually saying you are happy to have appointed Val Andrews over a proven winner like Peter Canavan?? :eek:

Val Andrews was not appointed over a proven winner like Peter Canavan.

Canavan, as a coach, has won nothing, by the way. He is unproven.

Gophur

MickySticks wrote: »

....... How many 3 time AI winners and countless All-Star recipients have Cavan had as manger in recent years?

What a stupid question!

Lemlin wrote: »

Bad coaches like Kieran McGeeney? ..........

Who said McGeeney is a bad coach? Not me. As yet he is unproven. (And many would say he should have done a lot better last year, especially v Donegal)

Lemlin wrote: »

.......

Canavan lives and breathes the GAA. He wasn't just another good player. He's Peter Canavan.
.......

That does not qualify him to do anything.

Lemlin wrote: »

...........
He's been around the top players and a top manager for years, and he knows what it takes to win matches.

............

How do you make that out? He was an excellent forward. It doesn't mean he has any skill in motivating people, spotting talent, devising tactics, analysing opposition, motivating players, managing players, etc, all the characteristics needed by team managers.


A good player does not necessarily a good manager make. McGeeney was legendary is his complete and utter devotion to the game, the science behind teh game and all aspects of the game, when he was a player. I don't recall Canavan, for example, having the same approach? Listening to Canavan and his TV analysis wouldn't inspire one to appoint him as a manager.


If you want to look at good players who failed as managers, you can look at several counties. How many of the Kerry greats were successful managers? How many of Dublin greats were successful? I thought Brian Mullins was very poor manager, for example. (And he is a professional "sports" man, outside football.)