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Seanie Johnston Kildare Transfer?
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tayto lover wrote: »A good place to start would be retaining your best footballers and not ditching them in favour of a manager who never won anything.
Yes, that's why I'm happy to see players like Eugene Keating and Niall McDermott still on board - retaining our best players.
I'm not ditching anyone but the Cavan football panel needs to move forward and I'm happy for it to do so.
Check my posts last year. I said that Cavan should play this year's league without Johnston because I was sick of watching Cavan team after Cavan team get the ball up the field only for the forwards to mess about with it, trying to get it to Seanie, before eventually losing it.
At least now they might go for their scores. There were plenty of wides kicked in the McKenna Cup but there were plenty of scores too. 1-14 against a Donegal team who operated a blanket defence system in the second half is fine for me.
No one player is bigger than a team. And to be honest some of the stuff being spouted on here - that Cavan is losing its best player since Stephen King for example - is hugely incorrect.0 -
a 273 post thread on Seanie Johnston......
Are we not reaching over kill here lads?
He's not that important......0 -
Seanie had a poor year last year in the Championship 2 matches but wasnt substituted in either game. Strange that if he was as poor as ppl say. Poor by his standards maybe.
There is actually a player who Andrews dropped this year glad he was dropped because he had no intention of listening to Andrews this year because of the crap that came out of Andrews last year. So in fact Andrews has done this player a favour by dropping him. It saves him walking away.
There is a good crop of young lads around without a doubt. But they need experience with them. Experience that Andrews dropped because these experienced players saw that Andrews was a bluffer from his results and weird tactics last year.
Finely the one think that made the Gaels successfull was their ability to blend nice experienced heads with young skillful talent. Andrews cant do that.
I know Val quite well and you obviously dont. Val is one of the most professional coachs and trainers in Ireland. What he wont take is bulls**t from lads who think they are something special. The lad who was dropped can easily say he was happy but give him a mirror and let him ask was he actually good enough or prepared to put in the work required. Probably not on both counts.I can't comment on why Seanie wasn't substituted. Only Andrews or the selectors can. I'd imagine though taking off the captain and star player was one of the last things they wanted to do. Did you not find his performances below par last season?
You seem to have a vendetta against Andrews. No-one is saying he was a huge success last year but you have to gauge what he had to work with. Successive managers have failed to find success with Cavan and have complained about the attitude of the players. In relation to players he dropped, I gave my opinion on the Cavan GAA thread where you posted originally and you have failed to reply:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056198368&page=14
I have given my opinion on those dropped above and also why I am not sad to see the loss of any player who has been asked to leave the panel or told that they aren't required. The attitude described above is the wrong attitude to have and its been going on for far too long in Cavan. Antrim were a poor Division 4 team in 2005 when Cavan drew with them in the first round of the Ulster Championship. Six players had to be disciplined for being in a nightclub in front of the entire town that night locked drunk. Then we had the debacle a couple of years ago of a player missing a match to go to Oxegen.
Things like this have to end
I've also seen players that previously there were problems with brought back into the panel so I don't think Val or the selectors are holding grudges against anyone. The attitude needs to change in Cavan
Andrews inherited a poisioned chalice and he has to try and work with it now. Last year was poor but time needs to be given to turn things around. Changing managers every 2 to 3 years will not work.
Good post Lemlin.
I have spoken to a few people close to Cavan football and your post hits the nail on the head. I remember Donal and his shock at what was going on with some lads.
The whole culture has to change and it wont change overnight. This could take 4, 5 or 6 years but believe me Val Andrews is one man who can put in a solid foundation but everyone needs to read from the same hymn sheet.
I used to meet a succesful inter county player fairly regularly a few years back but once Christmas came that was him gone, would not be even seen in a pub. That is whats required to compete at the top level and Cavan had only a few lads doing this.
And to finish, there is nothing wrong with not using a player early in the season or having him or them in group training. It gives new players a chance to get to the pace of things and become familiar with the set up. Val has an open door and IF Johnson was serious about playing for Cavan he would have been in the gym since last November0 -
Lemlin, obviously you have a better insight of Cavan football than I do, I am only looking in from the outside, but what I will say is you definitely seem to have a dislike for Seanie, you are not from Cavan Gaels I assume?
And yes I agree with you that there is an opportunity here for Cavan football to blood these sucessfull youngsters from the U-21's and Minors of the last few seasons, but surely to god bringing these players through gradually and havin them surrounded by quality, and despite your assertions Seanie is that, rather than fcukin them all in head first to sink or swim, especially considering their ''manager'' can barely float himself??
The longshot of this will have no positive effect for Cavan football, that I can guarantee you. Why not give Hyland the job himself if thats the road they want to go down.0 -
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Couldnt care less he is gone. Its a team game, he really is poison in the dressing room as many U21 players have mentioned. We have the Ulster U18 and U21 champions from last year and u21 All Ireland finalists making a big impact. We don't need Seanie Johnston.
The same man who a few years back flew to America mid championship with Cavan to get money and a tan. He wouldnt train several times last year, and tried to embarrass Val Andrews by insisting he wouldnt train because he was teeing off playing golf.
Good luck to him, I personally believe Kildare are a very overhyped side for a county who have won feck all ever, but even if they won an All Ireland, surely it wouldnt mean half what it would winning anything with your own county.
Lastly I hope the Kildare doctor is specialised with removing peoples heads from up their own arses, because Johnston has a severe issue there!0 -
premierstone wrote: »Lemlin, obviously you have a better insight of Cavan football than I do, I am only looking in from the outside, but what I will say is you definitely seem to have a dislike for Seanie, you are not from Cavan Gaels I assume?
And yes I agree with you that there is an opportunity here for Cavan football to blood these sucessfull youngsters from the U-21's and Minors of the last few seasons, but surely to god bringing these players through gradually and havin them surrounded by quality, and despite your assertions Seanie is that, rather than fcukin them all in head first to sink or swim, especially considering their ''manager'' can barely float himself??
The longshot of this will have no positive effect for Cavan football, that I can guarantee you. Why not give Hyland the job himself if thats the road they want to go down.
The fact you don't know that I'm not from Cavan Gaels highlights that you haven't even read all of my posts on this thread. Therefore I fail to see how you are commenting on my opinions. If you want to get the complete picture, please read all my posts.
On what basis do you feel I have a dislike for Seanie Johnston? I honestly don't see where I've said anything negative about him. I've spoken about the fact that he's a tremendous footballer and that he gave one of the best individual displays I've ever seen against Wicklow in 2010 (not as good as Dermot McCabe against Down in 2004 however!). If you're referring to me saying that he's not the best Cavan player since Stephen King, then that's just me pointing out what I wouldn't call my opinion but a fact. You can argue that Seanie is as good as Anthony Forde, Jason Reilly or Larry Reilly if you wanted, but no way is he as good a player as Dermot McCabe.
What I have said I support is the process that the current management team are going through. I don't know the lad personally, as I've said on numerous occasions, but I'm not sorry to see the back of others dropped from the panel both from knowing them and from the previous attitudes I've seen displayed by other dropped players. As well as that, I have seen the players Val has called up to the panel. Lads who would die for their club jerseys every time I see them play. To me, Val has decided he wants a dedicated team of players and I commend him for that.
In regard to the point re the young players and throwing them in at the deep end, I don't think there's much choice. The old guard hasn't delivered and too many of them appear to have the wrong attitude from the actions I've described - over the last five or six years particularly. To me, Andrews is doing what should have been done long ago. Again, you make a comment re Andrews, where is this assertion from that he "can barely float himself"? He's surrounding the young players with older players who will bleed for the jersey and that's the right environment to have these lads around. To be honest, I'd prefer, much like last year, for Cavan minors and U21s to do well again this year and the senior team flop than the young teams falter like previous seasons. Cavan football has to be about the future because there's very little to be happy about now and I do believe that Andrews is seeing the bigger picture.
How can you guarantee though that it will have no positive effect? You've admitted you are only looking in from the outside. I'm looking at the past decade of Cavan football and remembering all the previous managers who haven't changed a thing and have let it all continue to this. Year after year, loss after loss. At least Andrews is trying to make a break for the new. He's getting plenty of criticisim about it but I'm happy to see him continue the cull. It's about time it happened and previous managers have shyed away from taking the necessary action because they knew there was little there to replace those on the panel with. I'd prefer to see Terry Hyland in the job to be honest but he's working with Val so I'm happy enough with that. Its not as if experienced managers are beating down the county board's door for the management job.
As you've already stated, you had previous run-ins with Val so perhaps your view is biased. Your quoted post certainly points towards that.0 -
premierstone wrote: »Lemlin, obviously you have a better insight of Cavan football than I do, I am only looking in from the outside, but what I will say is you definitely seem to have a dislike for Seanie, you are not from Cavan Gaels I assume?
And yes I agree with you that there is an opportunity here for Cavan football to blood these sucessfull youngsters from the U-21's and Minors of the last few seasons, but surely to god bringing these players through gradually and havin them surrounded by quality, and despite your assertions Seanie is that, rather than fcukin them all in head first to sink or swim, especially considering their ''manager'' can barely float himself??
The longshot of this will have no positive effect for Cavan football, that I can guarantee you. Why not give Hyland the job himself if thats the road they want to go down.
Not sure you can say this, nobody can. If removing poison from the dressing room will bond the team, which havent been properly together since Johnston has been there, it is a good team.
A succession of managers arent all to blame. Johnson is a typical big shot with a terrible attitude. Hes never won anything, hes a nobody in GAA history.0 -
I know Val quite well and you obviously dont. Val is one of the most professional coachs and trainers in Ireland. What he wont take is bulls**t from lads who think they are something special. The lad who was dropped can easily say he was happy but give him a mirror and let him ask was he actually good enough or prepared to put in the work required. Probably not on both counts.
Good post Lemlin.
I have spoken to a few people close to Cavan football and your post hits the nail on the head. I remember Donal and his shock at what was going on with some lads.
The whole culture has to change and it wont change overnight. This could take 4, 5 or 6 years but believe me Val Andrews is one man who can put in a solid foundation but everyone needs to read from the same hymn sheet.
I used to meet a succesful inter county player fairly regularly a few years back but once Christmas came that was him gone, would not be even seen in a pub. That is whats required to compete at the top level and Cavan had only a few lads doing this.
And to finish, there is nothing wrong with not using a player early in the season or having him or them in group training. It gives new players a chance to get to the pace of things and become familiar with the set up. Val has an open door and IF Johnson was serious about playing for Cavan he would have been in the gym since last November
I don't know Val personally but I know Terry and he is a man who cares about Cavan football deeply and wouldn't take any crap from players. I know he had a few choice words to say in the dressing room after the Longford display anyway.
It wasn't just Donal who was shocked by what was going on. The manager before him, Martin McElhennon, and manager after, Tommy Carr, also commented on this.0 -
Val Andrews is the best manager Cavan are going to get at this time. FACT
He has this year now to give it a rattle.0 -
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Ok I don't know much about Seanie Johnston or indeed very little about Cavan football. But after briefly reading Lemlins post I get the feeling that the ordinary decent Cavan GAA fan sounds frustrated with years of ordinary displays from their county team. Maybe Andrews wants to make a fresh start and who knows? In 10 years time people might look back and say it was the best thing to happen to Cavan Football. At the moment thought its impossible to say what effect it will have.
I was speaking to a big GAA man during the week who can't understand how anyone would think Seanie Johnston would have an attitude problem. He recalls bringing his underage side upto Cavan (feile maybe can't remember) and Johnston couldn't do enough for them including taking training sessions. That doesn't sound to me if he has an attitude problem but that only my opinion.
So doctors differ and all that.0 -
I know Val quite well and you obviously dont. Val is one of the most professional coachs and trainers in Ireland. What he wont take is bulls**t from lads who think they are something special. The lad who was dropped can easily say he was happy but give him a mirror and let him ask was he actually good enough or prepared to put in the work required. Probably not on both counts.
Good post Lemlin.
I have spoken to a few people close to Cavan football and your post hits the nail on the head. I remember Donal and his shock at what was going on with some lads.
The whole culture has to change and it wont change overnight. This could take 4, 5 or 6 years but believe me Val Andrews is one man who can put in a solid foundation but everyone needs to read from the same hymn sheet.
I used to meet a succesful inter county player fairly regularly a few years back but once Christmas came that was him gone, would not be even seen in a pub. That is whats required to compete at the top level and Cavan had only a few lads doing this.
And to finish, there is nothing wrong with not using a player early in the season or having him or them in group training. It gives new players a chance to get to the pace of things and become familiar with the set up. Val has an open door and IF Johnson was serious about playing for Cavan he would have been in the gym since last November
Yes indeed. Val was a great success with Louth. He split that camp too.0 -
largepants wrote: »Ok I don't know much about Seanie Johnston or indeed very little about Cavan football. But after briefly reading Lemlins post I get the feeling that the ordinary decent Cavan GAA fan sounds frustrated with years of ordinary displays from their county team. Maybe Andrews wants to make a fresh start and who knows? In 10 years time people might look back and say it was the best thing to happen to Cavan Football. At the moment thought its impossible to say what effect it will have.
I was speaking to a big GAA man during the week who can't understand how anyone would think Seanie Johnston would have an attitude problem. He recalls bringing his underage side upto Cavan (feile maybe can't remember) and Johnston couldn't do enough for them including taking training sessions. That doesn't sound to me if he has an attitude problem but that only my opinion.
So doctors differ and all that.largepants wrote: »Ok I don't know much about Seanie Johnston or indeed very little about Cavan football. But after briefly reading Lemlins post I get the feeling that the ordinary decent Cavan GAA fan sounds frustrated with years of ordinary displays from their county team. Maybe Andrews wants to make a fresh start and who knows? In 10 years time people might look back and say it was the best thing to happen to Cavan Football. At the moment thought its impossible to say what effect it will have.
I was speaking to a big GAA man during the week who can't understand how anyone would think Seanie Johnston would have an attitude problem. He recalls bringing his underage side upto Cavan (feile maybe can't remember) and Johnston couldn't do enough for them including taking training sessions. That doesn't sound to me if he has an attitude problem but that only my opinion.
So doctors differ and all that.
I've heard the same to be honest about Johnston and his role in Breifne college in Cavan. Apparently he is doing wonderful work with the school teams at underage level there. My own feeling is that perhaps players like Johnston has grown disillusioned over the years with the poor Cavan setup. I remember speaking to a member of the panel a few years ago about playing for DCU and Cavan under Tommy Carr, which Johnston also would of done. His comments were that going into training in Breffni was embarassing when you saw how professional things were at DCU.
My own feeling is that Andrews is trying to make a break from past culture. To be honest, apart from 1997, Cavan have had decades since 1968 of winning very little. Now, we have a group of players who are actually winning things. The likes of James McEnroe and Eugene Keating won two Vocational Schools All-Ireland Championships with Virginia. The minors won Ulster last year. The U21s appear to be a very driven group who say they agreed 3 years ago when they threw the Ulster semi final away against Tyrone that they'd stay together as a group and they did, making two Ulster finals, winning one, and appearing in an All-Ireland final at their level. Players like Jack Brady are currently playing with DCU and others won Sigerson medals with them. Gearoid McKiernan's club Swanlinbar went to the All-Ireland Junior final. Padraig O'Reilly played with Ballinagh when they went to the All-Ireland intermediate semi final.
If Andrews choice is to surround these young lads coming through with older fully commited players then I applaud him for it. It's what they need. The last thing they need is to come into a camp which encourages rule breaking like what was seen in previous years.0 -
tayto lover wrote: »Yes indeed. Val was a great success with Louth. He split that camp too.
I'd be interested if someone in Louth could tell me something about Andrews' time there because I have to admit I know very little.
I do know he was there in 2004 and 2005. In 2003, Louth were knocked out of the qualifiers by a terrible Cavan team. A team who were put out in the first round of the Championship by a poor Antrim team.
So Val arrived in 2004 and, to be honest, from the above, he can't have had all that much to work with there. In his two years in charge, Louth won four Championship/qualifier matches. They were put out of the Championship by Galway and Monaghan in the qualifiers, two fairly decent teams.
He left Louth himself. He wasn't sacked. Louth have had relative success for such a small county since so it doesn't appear to me, from looking at the stats, that his time there should be seen negatively.
Perhaps you could elaborate on your one sentence reply about he "split that camp too".0 -
You genuinely come across as a serious Andrews nut-hugger Lemlin, I know it's probably not deliberate but you're extremely one-eyed on the whole subject.0
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I'd be interested if someone in Louth could tell me something about Andrews' time there because I have to admit I know very little.
I do know he was there in 2004 and 2005. In 2003, Louth were knocked out of the qualifiers by a terrible Cavan team. A team who were put out in the first round of the Championship by a poor Antrim team.
So Val arrived in 2004 and, to be honest, from the above, he can't have had all that much to work with there. In his two years in charge, Louth won four Championship/qualifier matches. They were put out of the Championship by Galway and Monaghan in the qualifiers, two fairly decent teams.
He left Louth himself. He wasn't sacked. Louth have had relative success for such a small county since so it doesn't appear to me, from looking at the stats, that his time there should be seen negatively.
Perhaps you could elaborate on your one sentence reply about he "split that camp too".
Val started of well enough with Louth when he arrived here but anyone who questioned any of his decisions seemed to get the chop. He did well enough for awhile but many supporters could not believe some of things he did. Bad organising skills and chopping and changing which led to supporters bewilderment and jeering him. I know these are only the views of supporters but I will post a wee extract from our website at the time
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4206.15;wap2
It seems to be the same now in Cavan.
I hope he has better luck with Cavan0 -
RTE.ie wrote:Johnston transfer request received
Seanie Johnston's transfer request has been lodged with the Cavan County Board, it has been revealed.
Johnston has requested that he be allowed move from Cavan Gaels to St Kevin's in Kildare and then come under consideration for Kieran McGeeney's Lilywhites.
The transfer application was reported in today's Irish Examiner.
McGeeney told Kildare FM last week: "If he wants to play for Kildare, the same as anybody else wants to play for Kildare, I've an open door policy. He can come here, turn up, play, train and I've never stopped anybody who's wanted to play for Kildare.
"He has indicated that he wants to and we'll take him in with open arms but he's going to have his work cut out.
"There are a lot of fellas there who want their place too and if Seanie steps in here he's going to have to put up like everybody else."
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2012/0127/johnstons_cavan_kildare.html0 -
You genuinely come across as a serious Andrews nut-hugger Lemlin, I know it's probably not deliberate but you're extremely one-eyed on the whole subject.
How excatly am I being "one-eyed"? I presume you mean one-sided by that.
I've explained over numerous posts that I have no problem with Johnston and I've also stated that I'd prefer Terry Hyland was manager.
However, Val, IMO, is doing work which should have been done long ago in Cavan and he's a brave man to do it. He could just do what previous managers have done - stuck to the status quo and kept the fans happy as people trundled to the Championship matches and came out with the same feeling of "how are we so bad?" when we received a hammering from a Division 4 team.
Now I may look like a "nut hugger" for praising what the man is doing, particularly given last year's Championship performance, but, having watched Cavan for the past fifteen to twenty years as a supporter, I know drastic changes need to happen if we're to get anywhere near emulating the success of 1997.
As I've said, I've sat back and watched Cavan players in pubs drunk after drawn matches with a replay due the following week, missing games for Oxegen and trips to Liverpool for the aftermath of the Champions League final, been told that Cavan training was "embarassingly poor" when compared to that of a third level education institute, heard 3 managers complain about the attitude of the players.... and the list could go on.
This year, I've seen Val cut people I know to be bad influences in the squad (please note I do not know anything about Johnston in this regard, I refer to others), call in players who I know locally will play with great spirit and be a positive influence on younger players and allow younger players the chance to move up to the next level. It mightn't work out but at least he's trying something different, it's about time someone did.
I also think its indicative of the feeling amongst football supporters within the county that the other Cavan posters on this thread, LeoB and DB10, have both also supported Andrews in their posts. Walk a mile in a Cavan supporters' shoes for the last decade and you might know why.0 -
Frank Spencer wrote: »
The best of luck to him. I actually do hope he gets the move and I'll be supporting Kildare in Leinster if he does. It's a pity for the Gaels as it'll dent their hopes of making a serious play for the Ulster Championship for the next few years.
He's not required on the Cavan panel so I can't see why anyone from Cavan would bear him anything other than goodwill.0 -
I also think its indicative of the feeling amongst football supporters within the county that the other Cavan posters on this thread, LeoB and DB10, have both also supported Andrews in their posts. Walk a mile in a Cavan supporters' shoes for the last decade and you might know why.
LeoB is a Dub, same county as Andrews interestingly!0 -
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The best of luck to him. I actually do hope he gets the move and I'll be supporting Kildare in Leinster if he does. It's a pity for the Gaels as it'll dent their hopes of making a serious play for the Ulster Championship for the next few years.
He's not required on the Cavan panel so I can't see why anyone from Cavan would bear him anything other than goodwill.
Your genuine sentiments are very welcome tbf
Just one little thing though to say he is not ''required'' on the Cavan panel is incorrect, he is not wanted by management would be more accurate. Kieran McGeaney who I would rate as a far superior coach than Andrews and has better forward resources at he's disposal obviously thinks he will be an adittion to Kildare, that in itself would raise alarm bells to me if I was Cavan supporter tbh.
Incidently I read through the Cavan thread in its entirity earlier and there is not one post on it suggesting Johnston had any sort of attitude or discipline problems and infact every post referring to him were glowing in hes praise, most of these were in the last 12 months, strange that??0 -
Cavan football has had huge problems over the last 20 years that I have been following him. Time and time again the reaction from supporters has been to villify whatever manager is in charge at the time. I don't claim to have inside information from the camp but it is obvious that lack of discipline has been a huge problem as has player power for all the wrong reasons. No player should be bigger than the team. If Val Andrews has decided that Seanie Johnston is not a positive influence on the team it is his right as manager to drop him.
Good luck to Johnston with his move to Kildare if that's what he wants to do. IMO he would have been far better getting his head down, taking on board anything the Manager said to him, working his arse off to get back on the County team - that's what I would like to see from a player. But maybe there are other factors here I'm not aware off.
Just because McGeeney takes a punt on him doesn't make him a better manager or more astute than Andrews. Its a completely different situation - there are a lot of big characters in the Kildare dressing room that have earned the right to respect by what they have done on the field. If Johnston keeps his head down and works hard he could be a major influence for Kildare. Even if Kildare win an All-Ireland and Johnston is there star player, it doesn't make Andrews wrong or a lesser manager.
Andrews is our manager, deserves the support of the players and fans and hopefully brings us out of the mess the county has been in. Cavan supporters should be in a positive frame a mind going into this year given the superb performance of our minors and Under 21s last year and build on that. Let's move on from this sideshow.0 -
premierstone wrote: »LeoB is a Dub, same county as Andrews interestingly!
I thought he was from Cavan. Think Tom Joad above put it perfectly anyway.0 -
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Cavan football has had huge problems over the last 20 years that I have been following him. Time and time again the reaction from supporters has been to villify whatever manager is in charge at the time. I don't claim to have inside information from the camp but it is obvious that lack of discipline has been a huge problem as has player power for all the wrong reasons. No player should be bigger than the team. If Val Andrews has decided that Seanie Johnston is not a positive influence on the team it is his right as manager to drop him.
Good luck to Johnston with his move to Kildare if that's what he wants to do. IMO he would have been far better getting his head down, taking on board anything the Manager said to him, working his arse off to get back on the County team - that's what I would like to see from a player. But maybe there are other factors here I'm not aware off.
Just because McGeeney takes a punt on him doesn't make him a better manager or more astute than Andrews. Its a completely different situation - there are a lot of big characters in the Kildare dressing room that have earned the right to respect by what they have done on the field. If Johnston keeps his head down and works hard he could be a major influence for Kildare. Even if Kildare win an All-Ireland and Johnston is there star player, it doesn't make Andrews wrong or a lesser manager.
Andrews is our manager, deserves the support of the players and fans and hopefully brings us out of the mess the county has been in. Cavan supporters should be in a positive frame a mind going into this year given the superb performance of our minors and Under 21s last year and build on that. Let's move on from this sideshow.
But if it does not work and Andrews walks like he did in Louth you will have lost a great player and the malaise will continue. What will happen if Andrews falls out with another of your up and coming players and they seek transfers too ? Cavan need to get to the bottom of this mess for that reason. I asked already if Andrews was a bit of a dictator as he appeared to be when dropping good Louth players off the panel when he was here.0 -
Cavan football has had huge problems over the last 20 years that I have been following him. Time and time again the reaction from supporters has been to villify whatever manager is in charge at the time. I don't claim to have inside information from the camp but it is obvious that lack of discipline has been a huge problem as has player power for all the wrong reasons. No player should be bigger than the team. If Val Andrews has decided that Seanie Johnston is not a positive influence on the team it is his right as manager to drop him.
Good luck to Johnston with his move to Kildare if that's what he wants to do. IMO he would have been far better getting his head down, taking on board anything the Manager said to him, working his arse off to get back on the County team - that's what I would like to see from a player. But maybe there are other factors here I'm not aware off.
Just because McGeeney takes a punt on him doesn't make him a better manager or more astute than Andrews. Its a completely different situation - there are a lot of big characters in the Kildare dressing room that have earned the right to respect by what they have done on the field. If Johnston keeps his head down and works hard he could be a major influence for Kildare. Even if Kildare win an All-Ireland and Johnston is there star player, it doesn't make Andrews wrong or a lesser manager.
Andrews is our manager, deserves the support of the players and fans and hopefully brings us out of the mess the county has been in. Cavan supporters should be in a positive frame a mind going into this year given the superb performance of our minors and Under 21s last year and build on that. Let's move on from this sideshow.
Fair points indeed Tom.
You say though you feel that Johnston should have put hes head down and worked hard and took on board what Andrews said to hime he could have worked hes way back, this I think is the crux of the problem, Andrews didnt tell him why he was no longer required a mere 10 secong phonecall, your not on the panel, personally I think Johnston deserved more than that after the years service he has given. I feel that it wouldnt have mattered what Johnston did the only way he was ever going to play for Cavan again was post Andrews.
Also when I said that Mcgeaney was a far better coach than Andrews I wasnt referring to the case in point it was a general statement, and I disagree that if Kildare were to go on and win the AI with Johnston staring that it wouldnt prove Andrews wrong, it is exactly what it would do imo.
I agree completely with your last paragraph and admire the support and that of your fellow Cavan supporters are affording the team management, the only slight issue I would take with it is referring to Johnston as a sideshow, I really am perplexed by how easily Johnston is been alienated after what 10 plus years serivce??0 -
premierstone wrote: »Your genuine sentiments are very welcome tbf
Just one little thing though to say he is not ''required'' on the Cavan panel is incorrect, he is not wanted by management would be more accurate. Kieran McGeaney who I would rate as a far superior coach than Andrews and has better forward resources at he's disposal obviously thinks he will be an adittion to Kildare, that in itself would raise alarm bells to me if I was Cavan supporter tbh.
Incidently I read through the Cavan thread in its entirity earlier and there is not one post on it suggesting Johnston had any sort of attitude or discipline problems and infact every post referring to him were glowing in hes praise, most of these were in the last 12 months, strange that??
No, he's not required on the panel. That's what he was told. You cna nit pick about management not wanting him all you want but they pick the panel and they have made their decision.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/cavan-star-johnston-poised-to-take-dra-route-in-bid-to-join-mcgeeneys-kildare-2990257.html"But I'm resident in Kildare now and I'm surplus to requirements in Cavan. That much was clear from the 10-second conversation I had with the manager (Val Andrews) last October.
It doesn't raise alarm bells at all to be honest. As I've said on numerous occasions, no team is bigger than one player. Another problem I had with Cavan football over the past decade is that the heroes of '97 hung around too long and, apparently, had too much say in the dressing room. If McGeeney feels Johnston fits into his plans for Kildare, then all well and good. There are plenty of counties I'm sure would love to have Seanie Johnston. As the poster above says, if Johnston goes to Kildare and is a great success, it doesn't make McGeeney any better a coach than Andrews (although I would also see him as a better coach but then I doubt McGeeney is battering down the door to get the Cavan manager's job).
The other thing is that McGeeney has nothing to lose. He's getting a known player who has undoubted quality and who now has something to prove. If it doesn't work out, he can drop him at any stage. If it does, he could help Kildare win an All-Ireland. There's no doubting that McGeeney has been very astute in all of this. I would imagine it's also going to motivate the lads down in Kildare that an 'outsider' is coming in to try and take one of their starting places. The only person with anything to lose is Johnston himself to be honest so he's taking a big gamble.
As for the Cavan thread, did you read my own comments in it where I said that he shouldn't play in the league next year. I also admit I said "in Seanie Johnston we have a corner forward who can win any match given the service". I stand by that. I don't see any particular posts which are overly glowing in praise though. Four or five over the course of the 15 or so pages in it. Have you any links to back up what you are saying? You make it sound like he was given constant praise in it. I'd actually point out that there are more posts in the thread talking about Cavan players' poor attitudes than there is about Johnston so I don't really get your point. I've also said I'm not aware if Johnston did have a poor attitude. You also should have seen it mentioned about his own club stripping him of the captaincy and only using him as a sub at the start of the Championship.
Here's an interesting piece which comments on the Eoin Kelly debacle, which you earlier referred to as being well handled when I stated Andrews was doing the right thing by not discussing the decision with the media:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/dont-do-it-seanie-you-might-regret-it-2996184.html0 -
premierstone wrote: »Fair points indeed Tom.
You say though you feel that Johnston should have put hes head down and worked hard and took on board what Andrews said to hime he could have worked hes way back, this I think is the crux of the problem, Andrews didnt tell him why he was no longer required a mere 10 secong phonecall, your not on the panel, personally I think Johnston deserved more than that after the years service he has given. I feel that it wouldnt have mattered what Johnston did the only way he was ever going to play for Cavan again was post Andrews.
Also when I said that Mcgeaney was a far better coach than Andrews I wasnt referring to the case in point it was a general statement, and I disagree that if Kildare were to go on and win the AI with Johnston staring that it wouldnt prove Andrews wrong, it is exactly what it would do imo.
I agree completely with your last paragraph and admire the support and that of your fellow Cavan supporters are affording the team management, the only slight issue I would take with it is referring to Johnston as a sideshow, I really am perplexed by how easily Johnston is been alienated after what 10 plus years serivce??
But nobody knows what happened in the phone call. Why didn't Johnston take time to ask why he wasn't required? That's the one thing a very vocal Seanie isn't telling us. Surely after nine years, making his debut in 2003, he'd want a reason why. He's very quiet on that matter. For example, he knows Michael Lyng was apparently told he was "too old" and has no problem telling the Independent that, but he hasn't stated what he himself was told.
It wouldn't prove Andrews wrong to be honest. Kildare are at a far superior level to Cavan and light years ahead of ours in terms of commitment.
9 years service, including 2007 where he left to go to America before the Championship was even over.
To be honest, if you're still perplexed then you mustn't be reading the same thread as me and you can't have read the Cavan thread. Post after post about what a joke our county team is and the attitudes of the players on it. Poster after poster from Cavan has said it and you're still questioning it.0 -
But nobody knows what happened in the phone call. Why didn't Johnston take time to ask why he wasn't required? That's the one thing a very vocal Seanie isn't telling us. Surely after nine years, making his debut in 2003, he'd want a reason why. He's very quiet on that matter. For example, he knows Michael Lyng was apparently told he was "too old" and has no problem telling the Independent that, but he hasn't stated what he himself was told.
It wouldn't prove Andrews wrong to be honest. Kildare are at a far superior level to Cavan and light years ahead of ours in terms of commitment.
9 years service, including 2007 where he left to go to America before the Championship was even over.
To be honest, if you're still perplexed then you mustn't be reading the same thread as me and you can't have read the Cavan thread. Post after post about what a joke our county team is and the attitudes of the players on it. Poster after poster from Cavan has said it and you're still questioning it.
Johnston has said he wasnt given any reason only that he was no longer part of their plans, Andrews has not refuted this, I have no reason to believe that the conversation was anymore or less than this, I feel Johnston deserved more you dont fair enough we will have to agree to disagree on that.
9 years service to the seniors, I was referring to service to Cavan Footbasll, minor, u-21 etc.
I am reading the same thread as you but I dont have an agenda here I couldnt give two fcuks if Cavan never won a game again, or if they went on to win 5 AIs in a row, wont bother me either way, in that sense the word perplexed was perhaps not the best, suprised then. Are you implying from that last sentence that Johnston was responsible for the shambles the county team has been and the attitude of the players involved for the last few years??0 -
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tayto lover wrote: »But if it does not work and Andrews walks like he did in Louth you will have lost a great player and the malaise will continue. What will happen if Andrews falls out with another of your up and coming players and they seek transfers too ? Cavan need to get to the bottom of this mess for that reason. I asked already if Andrews was a bit of a dictator as he appeared to be when dropping good Louth players off the panel when he was here.
Its always going to be a gamble but people in Cavan have to a some point draw a line in the sand and realise that changing managers - and we have had some damn good managers come and go over the last 20 years - is not helping anything. It's an instant reaction when things go bad - let Andrews manage the team as he sits fit this year and see where we are at the end of it. Cavan might need a bit of a dictator if some of the stories about the drinking culture etc are true. For what its worth eveything I am hearing from the camp at the minute is that the young lads are hungry, working well and there is a great bond amongst them. If that's all Andrews achieves that's impressive considering where we are coming from.0
This discussion has been closed.
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