Seanie Johnston Kildare Transfer?

munchkin_utd

Cavan hope Johnston returns to club action
By John Fogarty
Tuesday, March 27, 2012

The Cavan County Board hope Seanie Johnston returns to play for his club after opting not to pursue his transfer case to the Disputes Resolution Authority (DRA).
It was reported at the weekend that Johnston did not apply to the independent arbitration body within the required timeframe after the GAA’s disciplinary bodies refused to grant his switch to Kildare.

Cavan raised an issue about the legitimacy of Johnston living in Straffan, close to the St Kevin’s club, which he sought to join.

Breffni bosses are glad the saga has ended and anticipate the talented forward will return to play with Cavan Gaels.

Cavan PRO Declan Woods said: "We’d hope that Seanie comes back and plays with his club and look forward to seeing him there. That’s where his talent has been nurtured and where he started. Cavan Gaels are the best club in the county and certainly the most successful club. They want to move forward in Ulster and Seanie would certainly help them to succeed at provincial level."

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/cavan-hope-johnston-returns-to-club-action-188533.html#ixzz1qJQXzsye

so, that seems to be that.

To Alcohol

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/cavan-hope-johnston-returns-to-club-action-188533.html#ixzz1qJQXzsye

so, that seems to be that.

You'd think that wouldn't you? Alas it's not the end...

roy rodgers

I was driving home this evening listening to kildare fm and the king himself seanie johnston was been interviewed live.
He was saying that he has resubmitted his transfer and is hoping it would go through in quick time. fair play to him!

MickySticks

Link: http://www.kfmradio.com/kfm-podcasting/sport-podcasts.html

He seems very confident it will go through...

DARK-KNIGHT

if he is this persistant maybe he really really does want to play for the lillies.. easy option would be for him to give up and go back to cavan... weirdly i have a newfound respect for his efforts and interview too

MickySticks

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

if he is this persistant maybe he really really does want to play for the lillies.. easy option would be for him to give up and go back to cavan... weirdly i have a newfound respect for his efforts and interview too

Same here, he sounded very genuine and committed to the Kildare cause. He said it takes him an hour and 15 minutes to get to work which isn't too bad TBH.

I would love to see him in a Kildare jersey.

sid waddell

MickySticks wrote: »

Same here, he sounded very genuine and committed to the Kildare cause. He said it takes him an hour and 15 minutes to get to work which isn't too bad TBH.

I would love to see him in a Kildare jersey.

Seanie is only committed to his own cause. Bottom line is he has no connection to Kildare bar a name on a lease and he only has that lease because he wants to play for a successful county team he has no connection with. It's lease of convenience. Seanie has said himself that it would be impossible for him to live in Kildare and train in Cavan and yet continued to train away with Cavan Gaels. He has no business playing with Kildare.

He should take a leaf out of Kevin Cassidy's book and take his inter-county absence like a man instead of going glory hunting with another county.

MickySticks

sid waddell wrote: »

Seanie is only committed to his own cause. Bottom line is he has no connection to Kildare bar a name on a lease and he only has that lease because he wants to play for a successful county team he has no connection with. It's lease of convenience. Seanie has said himself that it would be impossible for him to live in Kildare and train in Cavan and yet continued to train away with Cavan Gaels. He has no business playing with Kildare.

He should take a leaf out of Kevin Cassidy's book and take his inter-county absence like a man instead of going glory hunting with another county.

:rolleyes: Stick to the darts.

Hammer Archer

MickySticks wrote: »

:rolleyes: Stick to the darts.

The guy has made some good points in his post so why do you feel the need to roll your eyes at him?
Why was Johnston able to train regularly with Cavan Gaels recently when he stated earlier that it would be impossible for him to do so.
And he must speed like a madman if he gets to Cavan from Straffan in 75 minutes. It takes me around that time to make it to Cavan and I live around a half an hour away from Straffan (closer to Cavan)

sid waddell

MickySticks wrote: »

:rolleyes: Stick to the darts.

That's my argument blown out of the water anyway

Let's just say hypothetically that Kevin Cassidy put his name to a lease in Dublin and decided he wanted to play for Dublin.

What would be your opinion of something like that happening?

Do you think that would benefit Dublin GAA or the inter-county system?

As a Dub I certainly know what my answer would be.

MickySticks

sid waddell wrote: »

That's my argument blown out of the water anyway

Let's just say hypothetically that Kevin Cassidy put his name to a lease in Dublin and decided he wanted to play for Dublin.

What would be your opinion of something like that happening?

Do you think that would benefit Dublin GAA or the inter-county system?

As a Dub I certainly know what my answer would be.

It happens a lot, look at Billy Joe Padden's move from Mayo to Armagh last year, why weren't people so up in arms over that as they are over Seanie Johnston? BJP works in Kildare btw.

All the man wants is to play inter county football and I don't believe that one man should be able to stand in his way. You only get one career in football so you can hardly blame Johnston for wanting to make the most of it.

Hammer Archer

MickySticks wrote: »

It happens a lot, look at Billy Joe Padden's move from Mayo to Armagh last year, why weren't people so up in arms over that as they are over Seanie Johnston? BJP works in Kildare btw.

All the man wants is to play inter county football and I don't believe that one man should be able to stand in his way. You only get one career in football so you can hardly blame Johnston for wanting to make the most of it.

Didn't BJP marry a girl from that area of Armagh? And Padden transferred to Kildare before being approached by the Armagh management team, not like in the case of Seanie Johnston who tried to declare for Kildare without even moving clubs. Now why would he do that if he's so adamant that he lives in Kildare?

sid waddell

MickySticks wrote: »

It happens a lot, look at Billy Joe Padden's move from Mayo to Armagh last year, why weren't people so up in arms over that as they are over Seanie Johnston? BJP works in Kildare btw.

Because Billie Joe Padden is actually living in County Armagh. He is married to an Armagh woman and has made his home there. Kildare had players from other counties in the late 90s/early 2000s but pople didn't object because those players were actually living and working in the county. They weren't taking out leases of convenience. That's the difference.

MickySticks wrote: »

All the man wants is to play inter county football and I don't believe that one man should be able to stand in his way. You only get one career in football so you can hardly blame Johnston for wanting to make the most of it.

Nobody has a right to play inter-county football or hurling and they have no right to play with a county they have no connection with. The whole inter-county system is based on players playing from where they come from. The GAA is not a job. It's an amateur association which has rules to protect its core principles. You play for the place you are from. As I've stated, genuine transfer cases such as Padden's where a player's life circumstances take him to another county are generally allowed.

That's not the case with Johnston as he even admitted in that podcast. He "picked" Kildare, in his own words. Allow this transfer and the GAA would be giving the green light for any inter-county player to pick who they want to play for. That would totally undermine the whole basis of the inter-county system.

The Cavan management obviously had their reasons for dropping Johnston. 99% of other players would have put their head down and tried to make sure the management had no option but to pick them. Not Seanie. He might want to make the most of his career as he sees it and he's clearly a good inter-county standard player that would be an addition to the championship. But I'd far rather see him stay on the sidelines than undermine the GAA's rules. Would I prefer to see Kevin Cassidy play championship football this year? Of course. Would I want to see him play for Dublin or Meath? Hell no. No player is bigger than the fundamental basis of the inter-county system.

lilywhites28

Bjp works in Kildare county council and communtes everyday. Its the same as Seanie he is communting everyday for work like the rest of us. I did a similar journey for the past four years. My journey took an Hour and a half and I was still in at work at 9am. Im Glad Seanie came on the radio and let us know where he stood. He sent a loud and clear message out to all parties involved. To me that message is that he will be not given up on his quest to play for st. kevins and kildare and that he clearly feels he can add something to both of them.
The transfer is submitted now and if cavan gaels sign it, as they have done before and the CCB dont object. We could be seen him in the red and black of kevins and the all white yet.

StupidLikeAFox

This thread ws started 5 months ago, given that kildare play their last league game next week, would he have time to slot into the team? Could be a bit late at this stage

munchkin_utd

the major sticking point in the thing is the lack of a definition of "Permanent" with regards to the move in the current official guide.

the following addition to the guide is being proposed by the Central Council for adoption by the GAA Congress in 2 weeks time, presumably the culmination of the efforts by the legendary rules Zsar Frank Murphy to tidy up the rules book.

Permanent Residence:
Unless otherwise defined in ByeLaw, a place of Permanent Residence of a person shall be the domestic property where (by reference to actual overnight presence, his own or his family’s ownership of or tenancy in the property, his place of non-temporary employment, and such other factors as may be considered appropriate) the Council or Committee assessing the question considers his principal private residence to have been for at least the previous month and is likely for at least the ensuing year.

page 2 here: http://gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/motions/GAA_Motions_Congress_2012.pdf

From my reading, the rule above would mean you need BOTH job and overnights in a place to have a (new) residence considered permanent.

Leaving the meaning of the rule to the side for a minute, has anyone an idea of the way GAA rules work timewise and is a new rule relevant to this case. As in, if Seanies transfer is being considered (or appealed or whatever) in 2 weeks time after this rule change comes in - does the transfer get judged on the (old) rules in force at the time of application or the (new) rules at the time of the judgement being made?

Either way, a lot of the bad sentiment to the transfer was like stated a few posts back by sid waddell in the fact that "He "picked" Kildare, in his own words. "
Seanie might make a solid and successful case yet on his transfer, but it looks like he'll be the last intercounty nomad to be allowed to pick a new county to play for.

bruschi

lilywhites28 wrote: »

Bjp works in Kildare county council and communtes everyday. Its the same as Seanie he is communting everyday for work like the rest of us. I did a similar journey for the past four years. My journey took an Hour and a half and I was still in at work at 9am. Im Glad Seanie came on the radio and let us know where he stood. He sent a loud and clear message out to all parties involved. To me that message is that he will be not given up on his quest to play for st. kevins and kildare and that he clearly feels he can add something to both of them.
The transfer is submitted now and if cavan gaels sign it, as they have done before and the CCB dont object. We could be seen him in the red and black of kevins and the all white yet.

it absolutley is not the same. How anyone can try defend Johnstons 'living' arrangements and his workplace is ludicrous. He has a place of residence for paperwork only, so he can try wrangle a way to play for Kildare. It has absolutley nothing to do with moving for a seperate or logical reason. Most other players when they seek a transfer its because work has changed, or their personal life with partners etc has changed. Johsnton is doing it, and has publically stated so, because he cant make the Cavan team and has 'picked' Kildare to play for. Its an absolute joke, and I hope it does not go through.

If he showed the same determination to try get back on the Cavan team he could well have been back playing for them now.

Dr Turk Turkelton

If Cavan don't want him and someone else does why should he not be allowed transfer?

munchkin_utd

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

If Cavan don't want him and someone else does why should he not be allowed transfer?

'cos who you want to play for has nothing to do with it.

You can play for who you are eligible to play for or eligible to transfer to.
In the GAA thats (admittedly badly) defined in the official guide and is related to your current residence or your (or your families) past residence.

nothing in the rule book about playing for the nearest county that will give you a game or playing for a county that you like or playing for a county for any other reason or preference.

Dr Turk Turkelton

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

If Cavan don't want him and someone else does why should he not be allowed transfer?

'cos who you want to play for has nothing to do with it.

You can play for who you are eligible to play for or eligible to transfer to.
In the GAA thats (admittedly badly) defined in the official guide and is related to your current residence or your (or your families) past residence.

nothing in the rule book about playing for the nearest county that will give you a game or playing for a county that you like or playing for a county for any other reason or preference.

I understand the "eligibebility" part but I can't get my head around the fact that Cavan have dropped him and he wants to declare for another county but can't.

He is only 27 so could have potentially 5-7 more years at intercounty level and obviously feels he is good enough to break into the Kildare set-up so why since Cavan don't want him should he not be allowed?

Now I know it's the GAA rules but perhaps there should be a lot of leeway in a case like this or indeed in a similar case?

munchkin_utd

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

Now I know it's the GAA rules but perhaps there should be a lot of leeway in a case like this or indeed in a similar case?

There IS a lot of leeway.

you can move to another county and the transfer to a club beside you new residence is AUTOMATICALLY approved.

how much leeway do you want?

bruschi

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

I understand the "eligibebility" part but I can't get my head around the fact that Cavan have dropped him and he wants to declare for another county but can't.

He is only 27 so could have potentially 5-7 more years at intercounty level and obviously feels he is good enough to break into the Kildare set-up so why since Cavan don't want him should he not be allowed?

Now I know it's the GAA rules but perhaps there should be a lot of leeway in a case like this or indeed in a similar case?

why should he be able to move. I'm sure there are plenty of footballers in Dublin who cant make their county team but could easily make others. Should they be allowed transfer? what about the countless hurlers in Kilkenny who would make other county teams. Should they be allowed transfer to Wexford or some other county?

He isnt able to make the Cavan team. He is not eligible to declare for other counties. If this goes through, it will set a precedent for inter county transfers whereby players can declare for whoever they want.

largepants

bruschi wrote: »

why should he be able to move. I'm sure there are plenty of footballers in Dublin who cant make their county team but could easily make others. Should they be allowed transfer? what about the countless hurlers in Kilkenny who would make other county teams. Should they be allowed transfer to Wexford or some other county?

He isnt able to make the Cavan team. He is not eligible to declare for other counties. If this goes through, it will set a precedent for inter county transfers whereby players can declare for whoever they want.

Hurlers (afaik) are 'allowed' to transfer to waeker counties as it is.

munchkin_utd

largepants wrote: »

Hurlers (afaik) are 'allowed' to transfer to waeker counties as it is.

yup, but not to just any county.
There has to be a family link to the place.

Eligibility for weaker Hurling Counties
For Senior Inter-County Hurling Competitions, a player,
subject to the conditions hereunder, shall be entitled to -
(a) Declare for the County of birth of a parent or
(b) Play for the County of Residence, provided this
County is a designated County as provided for in
Condition (1) below, while continuing to be eligible
to play with his Home Club

and heres the official guide pt 1 as it currently stands so ye can all do your homework! :
http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/Official_Guide_2011_Part_1.pdf

Alaska1

I would fully expect this transfer to go through this time.

munchkin_utd

Alaska1 wrote: »

I would fully expect this transfer to go through this time.

Why? What has changed since the last application?

The Sunday Independent yesterday reported the reasons that the application was rejected the last time.

Where Johnston is living was central to the transfer bid. A utility bill and a lease were offered as proof that his main residence was in Straffan, Co Kildare, from where he was commuting to his job in Cavan.

This is what the CCCC found:
'Concerns were expressed that even had permanent residency been satisfactorily demonstrated, the primary, if not sole, purpose of this residency appeared from the evidence gathered to be to enable the player to play inter-county football with a county to which he could claim no obvious allegiance. This, in the opinion of the committee, was in itself, contrary to the Association's ethos as outlined in rule.'

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/gaa-sticks-to-home-rule-3067633.html

so even if residency is proven, if the transfer itsself is going against the ethos of the organisation last month, can it really be approved the next month?

bruschi

largepants wrote: »

Hurlers (afaik) are 'allowed' to transfer to waeker counties as it is.

but not ones who play in the same competition, and there are a lot of restrictions on it. So its not the same. Hence why I said Kilkenny to Wexford, because that cant happen (despite no Kilkenny player would actually want to do that anyway!)

and in any case, that is done for weaker counties. this here is not comparable. This is a player who is seeking out a team for bandwagoning glory.

largepants

bruschi wrote: »

but not ones who play in the same competition, and there are a lot of restrictions on it. So its not the same. Hence why I said Kilkenny to Wexford, because that cant happen (despite no Kilkenny player would actually want to do that anyway!)

and in any case, that is done for weaker counties. this here is not comparable. This is a player who is seeking out a team for bandwagoning glory.

I wasn't comparing it. Just pointing out that hurlers can transfer thats all.

roy rodgers

I was talking to a county player over the weekend and he was telling me that seanie johnson has been training with the kildare team for the past few weeks. Its a pity that we didnt see him during the league this year.

MickySticks

roy rodgers wrote: »

I was talking to a county player over the weekend and he was telling me that seanie johnson has been training with the kildare team for the past few weeks. Its a pity that we didnt see him during the league this year.

He's been training with the Juniors.

Surely there has to be insurance implications if Johnston gets injured while training with Kildare?