Beef AI/Bulls MEGATHREAD

TITANIUM.

mikeoh wrote: »

Bova seem to be leading the pack when it comes to constantly producing the goods the others seem to throw a few unproven bulls in there and plug the crap out of them for profit while Bova must have a seriously good judge of cattle running the show

Jesus thats some statement mike.
And a very poorly informed one IMHO.
I can smell "vested Interest".

mikeoh

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Jesus thats some statement mike.
And a very poorly informed one IMHO.
I can smell "vested Interest".

Ha ha couldn't be further from the truth.....you reading too many threads ..... I've no whiteheads

TITANIUM.

mikeoh wrote: »

Ha ha couldn't be further from the truth.....you reading too many threads ..... I've no whiteheads

Sorry mike your giving me to much credit there. Don't know what your on about.
I just think your way off the mark with that statement. So much so that it seemed suspect to me.
That's all.

leg wax

Mad4simmental wrote: »

SFL is a good BB, which is suitable for heifers with easy calving,

I think anyone that puts bb into a heifer may need to rethink the career that they are in.

my father always had a saying, dont ever talk about what you dont know about,
legs

Mac Taylor

leg wax wrote: »

my father always had a saying, dont ever talk about what you dont know about,
legs

Legs, out of curiosity what bb bulls do you use on heifers?

Mad4simmental

my father always had a saying, dont ever talk about what you dont know about,
legs

Work away, we wer one of the first in the country breeding bb 25 years ago. Unless you are doing embryo and know you are doing the side exit it's madness putting bb on heifers you'll just brake them up.

leg wax

Mad4simmental wrote: »

my father always had a saying, dont ever talk about what you dont know about,
legs

Work away, we wer one of the first in the country breeding bb 25 years ago. Unless you are doing embryo and know you are doing the side exit it's madness putting bb on heifers you'll just brake them up.

if you steadied yourself and read the original post ,you would cop on that the poster said one bull and named him as sfl not the whole bb crop of bulls was suitable for heifers, hes very easy calving just look at his figures ,nobody said one single thing about ped bb if that what you mean by embryo.a lot has changed in 25 years the amount of progress in managing the cow and calf and all to do with the bb breed, in fact the more that stay away from bb the better for the rest at it.

leg wax

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Legs, out of curiosity what bb bulls do you use on heifers?

sfl is the only blue that i have used on heifers,i dont tend to use ai on heifers as they are away from home so a stock bull is used.

cattlelegend

moy83 wrote: »

I dont mind them speaking up for the bull at all Mac , every bit of information is a help .
But the figures on the dovea page arent putting him ahead of the other bulls there . I might be looking at old figures and the bull might be way out ahead at this stage

Stay using the figures nd your herd will be excellent in a few years

moy83

cattlelegend wrote: »

Stay using the figures nd your herd will be excellent in a few years

Gee thanks cattlelegend

Genghis Cant

I've been contemplating the whole AI thing this last few days. The worse calf we have at the moment is out of a good PB Charolais by the AI Lim MBP. It would make ya think. Nowhere near the quality of the calves off our own CH stock bull, nor indeed any of the few other AI bulls we used.

moy83

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I've been contemplating the whole AI thing this last few days. The worse calf we have at the moment is out of a good PB Charolais by the AI Lim MBP. It would make ya think. Nowhere near the quality of the calves off our own CH stock bull, nor indeed any of the few other AI bulls we used.

MBP is the one bull we have all good stuff out of ! But I know where you are coming from , there are loads of great bulls out ther now that must be nearly aswell bred as some standing in ai stations . Some of the older boys around here keep it simple when talking about bulls - they are lucky for you or they are not .

Bellview

moy83 wrote: »

MBP is the one bull we have all good stuff out of ! But I know where you are coming from , there are loads of great bulls out ther now that must be nearly aswell bred as some standing in ai stations . Some of the older boys around here keep it simple when talking about bulls - they are lucky for you or they are not .

unfortunately AI appear to be buying from a small cirlcle of breeders for whatever reasons. where farmers use ICBF data only to judge if a bull is suitable is also a risky strategy. If it was compulsory for the tag no of all sires get added when reg a calf then we might get good data in time on the values of some bloodlines, until ICBF make this compulsory I find it difficult to trust any of their numbers. If we knew the results of hanging a beast on a crook this is a real metric and not the guesswork used today on milk etc when only the calf knows the daily gallons!

I looked at Kilkenny bull sale cat this week and there is a AA bull with Terminal and Maternal numbers with a 0% and 1% reliability...why publish a number then!

I use a Ped AA bull that I rate is breeding better than some of the sires in AI... and he was picked on bloodlines rather than numbers

ICBF preaching that they will transform Beef in the way they transformed dairy (ICBF must have forgotten work done by Hol breeders) with a maternal bull program really frustrates me as they are building on a sand foundation and have not done the one thing that is in their control... track the sires calves

onyerbikepat

I think the reason ICBF dont insist on the Sire Tag No. is a farmer may not know it. If he is forced tp put one in, he is only going to input bad data and bad data is far worst than no data. :rolleyes:

Bellview

onyerbikepat wrote: »

I think the reason ICBF dont insist on the Sire Tag No. is a farmer may not know it. If he is forced tp put one in, he is only going to input bad data and bad data is far worst than no data. :rolleyes:

Fair point but if only 50 per cent accurate is better than no data as the icbf data is based on zero data and guesswork. In dairy at least there is milk and solids which removes guesswork

Sheep breeder

Agree bell view that this reliability figures are a joke and giving false star reading to a bull, a neighbour bought a char bull with 5 stars for every thing and at the end of the first season he was down to 3 stars when his sire had more calves on the ground and was seriously disappointed with the bull when the first crop of calves came,a very good breeder once said in a pedigree cert there should be 6 top animals in the cert or the bull would not produce consistent stock as back pedigree was most important.

onyerbikepat

Sheep breeder wrote: »

....,a very good breeder once said in a pedigree cert there should be 6 top animals in the cert or the bull would not produce consistent stock as back pedigree was most important.

I bought my first Pedigree Limousin heifer on that basis. I reckon I was the only bidder on her too. She wasn't great to look at, but from a top herd and I really liked her breeding.

Buncha Fives

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I've been contemplating the whole AI thing this last few days. The worse calf we have at the moment is out of a good PB Charolais by the AI Lim MBP. It would make ya think. Nowhere near the quality of the calves off our own CH stock bull, nor indeed any of the few other AI bulls we used.

I remember years ago when we were dairy farming I often noticed that there wouldn’t be a significant difference between an AI calf and a calf off the stock bull from cows that were of similar standard genetics wise. However when it came to the next generation and you had a calve from a stock bull out of a cow from a stock and you compared it with an AI calf out of an AI cow the difference would be fairly noticeable, for me AI breeding is a long term investment but it does increase the workload a fair bit!

Genghis Cant

Buncha Fives wrote: »

I remember years ago when we were dairy farming I often noticed that there wouldn’t be a significant difference between an AI calf and a calf off the stock bull from cows that were of similar standard genetics wise. However when it came to the next generation and you had a calve from a stock bull out of a cow from a stock and you compared it with an AI calf out of an AI cow the difference would be fairly noticeable, for me AI breeding is a long term investment but it does increase the workload a fair bit!

Thanks. Fair point. With Terminal beef sires however there most likely won't be a next generation. I certainly see where you're coming from with dairy sires.

In relation to using a bull or buying for that matter, stars Vs pedigree, I used Alcazar the Charolais bull from Dovea on all the few PB cows solely on his back breeding. He ain't great on the Eurostar index but he's well bred, particularly the cows behind him.
I'm happy enough with the decision.

Bodacious

Anyone notice cows taking a lot longer gestation this year ?

Have a heifer 294 days taken to ADX , one went 299 days to a blonde others 293 + .. All longer than previous years across all breeds

bogman_bass

moy83 wrote: »

Any opinions on RSL from munster ? Or GPZ ? His figures arent very reliable but the weanlings look well from him

I'd rate GPZ ahead of RSL

onyerbikepat

I've a cow at home now about to calve to FL21. She was AI'd on the 29th May last.

Pedigree Breeder

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Towzer/Moy, I am surprised at your cynicism!! Two first posters come on hear declaring their faith in a bull and you both think they have alterior motives. Never.....
Pedigree Breeder,
Have you by chance any pbr bulls or heifers for sale out of him?

I have several PBR heifers AND bulls for sale sired by KSG. I said as much in my original message

moy83

bogman_bass wrote: »

I'd rate GPZ ahead of RSL

Thanks bogman

Bellview

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Thanks. Fair point. With Terminal beef sires however there most likely won't be a next generation. I certainly see where you're coming from with dairy sires.

In relation to using a bull or buying for that matter, stars Vs pedigree, I used Alcazar the Charolais bull from Dovea on all the few PB cows solely on his back breeding. He ain't great on the Eurostar index but he's well bred, particularly the cows behind him.
I'm happy enough with the decision.

Hi Genghis agree a great job has been done in dairy and the great metric being milk & solids. This proves that good data will drive great results.

the problem on the beef side is no data is being used for beef sires and your methid is exactly what I use also as you need to give time on the bloodlines to find a gem. some of the good bloodlines are in AI but i would bet that there are stock bulls in all breeds that are better than AI.

as long as ICBF cntinue their guess work program we will be frustrated with results until real data used... tag numbers of sires is one real metric that will help fix this gap

Farrell

leg wax wrote: »

sfl is the only blue that i have used on heifers,i dont tend to use ai on heifers as they are away from home so a stock bull is used.

Used ODY on second calvers last year, small easy calved with short gestation, probably more suitable for heifers than big LM with long gestations. But what gives the best sale price, allot of factors to manage

Genghis Cant

Bellview wrote: »

tag numbers of sires is one real metric that will help fix this gap

You mentioned this before, am I wrong in thinking that when we register all calves we include either AI code or Bull code, both of which are fully traceable.
Essentially the tag number is known?

bogman_bass

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Suprised at that. Have you seen him in the flesh?

My sources tell me he's a big tall bull. plenty of power. You wouldnt think he was as easy calving as he is to look at him

cattle fanatic

I'm hearing great things from Kilsunny Goliath (KSG) in pedigree circles from breeders but it all depends what farming system you operate.

No other AI bull is being as widely used in pedigree breeding as KSG anyway so that must be a good sign.

Dairyman81

I dont know anything about pedigree beef breeding but I have a couple of crossbred KSG (Goliath) calves from dairy cows born last Spring and they are serious animals. Not overly big but super conformation on them.