Beef AI/Bulls MEGATHREAD

Kovu

I was just glad to see Crossmolina Euro back this year! FGG was.......well not disappointing but threw very different calves. Set of twins and a bull and all three look different despite being mostly lm dams. Found him a bit short, anyone else think the same?

Miname

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Have you seen his figures? proven in France too. I used him this year on a purebred cow.

You won't be disappointed. There's a breeder not far from me using him a lot. One of the best limo Bulls I seen him breed is by on dit.

charolais0153

Kovu wrote: »

I was just glad to see Crossmolina Euro back this year! FGG was.......well not disappointing but threw very different calves. Set of twins and a bull and all three look different despite being mostly lm dams. Found him a bit short, anyone else think the same?

do you have any pics.is he easy calving ,bought a cow incalf to him last week

Kovu

charolais0153 wrote: »

do you have any pics.is he easy calving ,bought a cow incalf to him last week

Will have when I'm home. I calved all round the house this year so dad awarded me a calf. I chose the twin heifer, for a reason, she's the nicest. Crap stars for FGG at the moment though.

Mac Taylor

What kind of money are the on-dit straws, I have a figure of 35 euro in my head.

tanko

Mac Taylor wrote: »

What kind of money are the on-dit straws, I have a figure of 35 euro in my head.

€16 euro now.

patsy_mccabe

tanko wrote: »

€16 euro now.

Ya, they dropped in price about a week after I bought mine. Talk about bad timing. At that price you could use him on commercial cows.

limo_100

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ya, they dropped in price about a week after I bought mine. Talk about bad timing. At that price you could use him on commercial cows.

What kind of cross suits him best do you know?? is he big??

Mac Taylor

tanko wrote: »

€16 euro now.

Yeah, at that price I'd definitely use him, my limit on a commercial animal is €20:D

tanko

limo_100 wrote: »

What kind of cross suits him best do you know?? is he big??

I'd say he's big enough, plenty of length and size in his calves. Good cross on small to medium sized well muscled cows I think.

Farrell

tanko wrote: »

I'd say he's big enough, plenty of length and size in his calves. Good cross on small to medium sized well muscled cows I think.

A nice blue?

patsy_mccabe

ON-DIT (ONI)
Attached page from Irish Limousin Sire Catalogue

Also;
http://www.progressivegenetics.ie/Store/Detail/ON-DIT
Stars coming out his ears.

tanko

Farrell wrote: »

A nice blue?

Why not, I think you'd need muscle in the cow for good results. He's easy calved anyway. He should be a good bull to breed replacements.

ruben37

Whats peoples views on Cottage Devon? Have used him on five pedigree charolais cows over the last two breeding sessions. first of all never had to use the jack on any of the cows, all spat out and very lively with in the first hour no dopey calf's. Have sold a few to anther pedigree breeder in the north, hes very happy with them they are surpassing all other stock by lgl, mvo, npp, pte, cf85 and one cf52. We have kept two heifers with the intention of breeding. All in all very happy with them to date, cant envisage any problems with milk as all are from very milky dams. Any one breeding with his bulls?

tanko

Bottom 1% of the breed for calving difficulty and daughters milk isn't going to do him much good.

ellewood

ruben37 wrote: »

Whats peoples views on Cottage Devon? Have used him on five pedigree charolais cows over the last two breeding sessions. first of all never had to use the jack on any of the cows, all spat out and very lively with in the first hour no dopey calf's. Have sold a few to anther pedigree breeder in the north, hes very happy with them they are surpassing all other stock by lgl, mvo, npp, pte, cf85 and one cf52. We have kept two heifers with the intention of breeding. All in all very happy with them to date, cant envisage any problems with milk as all are from very milky dams. Any one breeding with his bulls?

Have plenty of stock here from a bull with the same breeding on dams side and produced super stock - 1 lad I sold a bull to lad that kills bulls under 16 mths and the bull I sold him has produced E grade bulls from plain cows but mainly U's and heavier and sooner finished that other bulls he has.
No bother calving either but he had feck all stars except for CW and CC which in top 1%
Have moved away from that breeding now to ( right or wrongly) follow the stars and see how that goes.

Farrell

ruben37 wrote: »

Whats peoples views on Cottage Devon? Have used him on five pedigree charolais cows over the last two breeding sessions. first of all never had to use the jack on any of the cows, all spat out and very lively with in the first hour no dopey calf's. Have sold a few to anther pedigree breeder in the north, hes very happy with them they are surpassing all other stock by lgl, mvo, npp, pte, cf85 and one cf52. We have kept two heifers with the intention of breeding. All in all very happy with them to date, cant envisage any problems with milk as all are from very milky dams. Any one breeding with his bulls?

Can he be got anymore?

ruben37

I would say his straws will be hard to find was told by progressive that we got their last Cottage Devon straw. Wouldn't mind a few for the tank, in my own personal opinion he was a very good bull and think his off spring will do all the talking. The ICBF got it badly wrong when they rated him easy calving starting out, this duped a lot of breeders this was his down fall and no fault of his own in my opinion.

patsy_mccabe

Cottage Devon has 5534 Births recorded to him, 48% of those are with Charolais Dams.
16.9% for a calving difficulty to me says, 'Do Not Use'.

ruben37

Was just talking to a representative in progressive genetics this morning and he tells me Cottage Devon is still available but must be pre ordered. I just ordered anther four will be here in three weeks time, I just can not ignore the quality of his stock in every way.

Seen a daughter of Cottage Devon with her first calf this morning and she had lots of milk, she was out of an Organdi cow a supposed 2 star for milk according to the ICBF, the breeder tells me the Organdi cow had buckets of milk. Time and time again the ICBF stats are proving to be a load of Bull!!! Maybe in eight to ten years time it might be worth a use as a guide, although at the rate of ten a day dropping out of the Beef Data Genomics Program it's not looking good.

Farrell

ruben37 wrote: »

Was just talking to a representative in progressive genetics this morning and he tells me Cottage Devon is still available but must be pre ordered. I just ordered anther four will be here in three weeks time, I just can not ignore the quality of his stock in every way.

Seen a daughter of Cottage Devon with her first calf this morning and she had lots of milk, she was out of an Organdi cow a supposed 2 star for milk according to the ICBF, the breeder tells me the Organdi cow had buckets of milk. Time and time again the ICBF stats are proving to be a load of Bull!!! Maybe in eight to ten years time it might be worth a use as a guide, although at the rate of ten a day dropping out of the Beef Data Genomics Program it's not looking good.

ODI is 1 star (-10.9kg) for milk, but that can change. Have you any opinion on him.
Think the downside to DEZ is his early calving caused a lot of harm to his stars & now that he's not about there'll not be enough figures

ruben37

Only ever used Organdi once and got a very good cow with a calving interval average of 397 days. She has seven to date one bull and six heifers and another on the way to Lisnagre Elite, the ICBF has her as a 4 star maternal. An ICBF rep told me she was too terminal and in particular is poor on milk within her pedigree. Yet she has four very good bags of milk and produced four replacements on the farm and another one sold as replacement to another very well known pedigree breeder north of the border, the other one is currently at foot by Cottage Devon.

Anyone who has seen her can not understand how the ICBF say she has no milk, on pushing them for an explanation for 2 weeks they turned round and blamed us for not submitting weaning weights for 3 of them, said she is therefore a 4 star I have asked them how I can correct this as we have the weights. We are still awaiting an answer, PM me your location your very welcome for an inspection anytime their rating for Charolais pedigree animals are ridiculous and as far out as when they soiled their first nappy.

Farrell

ruben37 wrote: »

Only ever used Organdi once and got a very good cow with a calving interval average of 397 days. She has seven to date one bull and six heifers and another on the way to Lisnagre Elite, the ICBF has her as a 4 star maternal. An ICBF rep told me she was too terminal and in particular is poor on milk within her pedigree. Yet she has four very good bags of milk and produced four replacements on the farm and another one sold as replacement to another very well known pedigree breeder north of the border, the other one is currently at foot by Cottage Devon.

Anyone who has seen her can not understand how the ICBF say she has no milk, on pushing them for an explanation for 2 weeks they turned round and blamed us for not submitting weaning weights for 3 of them, said she is therefore a 4 star I have asked them how I can correct this as we have the weights. We are still awaiting an answer, PM me your location your very welcome for an inspection anytime their rating for Charolais pedigree animals are ridiculous and as far out as when they soiled their first nappy.

Thanks for that.
Have a heifer poor stars, had a LM bull over 400Kg at 9 months, in-calf to FFK, as only bought 1 HKI straw. Like the look of Bugatti, Organdi, Devon & Major

ruben37

Have a look at Alwent Goldbar and let me know your thoughts?

Farrell

ruben37 wrote: »

Have a look at Alwent Goldbar and let me know your thoughts?

Looks nice & going onto commercials, have been by a PB breeder to avoid Digger offspring, but great reviews.
Think looks short

ruben37

Thanks for that, Goldbar came highly recommended by one of the breeding experts at progressive for the lines I suggested. Back to Cottage Devon, I see the Munster Cattle Breeding Group has Cottage Devon the top of the list at 210 for wean price for Charolais. It's a pity the ICBF damaged the bull by rating him easy calving when starting out, in my opinion this was his only fault and not his own as for milk it appear not to be a problem when used on milky dams.

Farrell

ruben37 wrote: »

Thanks for that, Goldbar came highly recommended by one of the breeding experts at progressive for the lines I suggested. Back to Cottage Devon, I see the Munster Cattle Breeding Group has Cottage Devon the top of the list at 210 for wean price for Charolais. It's a pity the ICBF damaged the bull by rating him easy calving when starting out, in my opinion this was his only fault and not his own as for milk it appear not to be a problem when used on milky dams.

But he's not the only one. I downloaded the 2014 excel sheet, some of the Bulls with top weanling prices had poor ratings (only looked CH), must be cos the calves were exported & no kill out figures

ruben37

Farrell wrote: »

Thanks for that.
Have a heifer poor stars, had a LM bull over 400Kg at 9 months, in-calf to FFK, as only bought 1 HKI straw. Like the look of Bugatti, Organdi, Devon & Major

Bite the bullet and Go for Cottage Devon if she has milk, month before she is due close her up and feed her ample decent hay for her size, along with feeding oats and hand full of crunch of any kind to make it more appealing for her also a good quality pre calving bucket IE nutras or the likes, as stated in previous post we have yet to use a jack on any of his produce.

Farrell

ruben37 wrote: »

Bite the bullet and Go for Cottage Devon if she has milk, month before she is due close her up and feed her ample decent hay for her size, along with feeding oats and hand full of crunch of any kind to make it more appealing for her also a good quality pre calving bucket IE nutras or the likes, as stated in previous post we have yet to use a jack on any of his produce.

Reduced silage with straw & oats with seaweed here.
Oh the PB breeder had nothing but good to say of Egbert & his sons, yet another with bad rating

ruben37

Anther very good point with Cottage Devon is they really do convert every ounce of feed. Seen one of his bulls last month, hes indoors on good hay from Wexford and a bull crunch with yeast and acid buff 8.05 euro a bag have to say hes impressive, fertility not a problem either very fruitful on the test with electro pacifier.

croot

I do think that the ICBF figures can be a bit odd at times but I have an ODI cow out of a very milky shorthorn cow and she's useless for milk. Gave her a second chance this year but still poor so culling her this year.

Her older sister is out of KIB and has loads of milk.

Farrell

croot wrote: »

I do think that the ICBF figures can be a bit odd at times but I have an ODI cow out of a very milky shorthorn cow and she's useless for milk. Gave her a second chance this year but still poor so culling her this year.

Her older sister is out of KIB and has loads of milk.

Who technically is worse for milk, but his dam is off IDU who on paper wasn't good for milk, but on my fathers farm added milk to cows that would have been CHxCHxSI, apart from better frames too

Limestone Cowboy

March born vagabond bull calf.

J DEERE

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

March born vagabond bull calf.

Great animal. Did u find him easy calved?

Limestone Cowboy

J DEERE wrote: »

Great animal. Did u find him easy calved?

To be honest I bought the cow and calf off a friend in the spring but I know he had a few calves by him without any bother. Calf is exceptionally quiet too.

Farrell

See Cottage & Ashleigh herds are having a dispersal sale, Is Vern coming up soon too, that's allot lately

Limestone Cowboy

Anyone going to use this lad, proper looking Charolais bull!

Kovu

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Anyone going to use this lad, proper looking Charolais bull!

Reminds me of Hara Kiri! Built like a low tank and fluffy hair.

Edit- Well now, just looked him up on ICBF, he has him in the bloodline!!

ellewood

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Anyone going to use this lad, proper looking Charolais bull!

Well it even tell u u on page to 'use him' so suppose will have to

Good looking bull alright with great figures/stars

I'd imagine those stars will drop from those heights as relevant increases

I do like the look of him and his breeding tho!

ellewood

Farrell wrote: »

See Cottage & Ashleigh herds are having a dispersal sale, Is Vern coming up soon too, that's allot lately

You would have to wonder where buyers are going to come for em all tho.. fantastic looking stock in catalogue and great breeding going back generations
Going to see if anything at right price
There's a full sister to ADA I'd like to buy

Limestone Cowboy

ellewood wrote: »

Well it even tell u u on page to 'use him' so suppose will have to

Good looking bull alright with great figures/stars

I'd imagine those stars will drop from those heights as relevant increases

I do like the look of him and his breeding tho!

I wouldn't take much notice of the stars with him. If his calving difficulty rises he will get hammered on icbf and more than likely they will. I much rather the look of him to some of the piggy little bulls that are being pushed hard by the ai companies. Looks more like Charolais did ten years ago. I have a neighbour with a bull by newlook out of a 52 cow and I have never seen cattle like what he breeds to put on weight and he always gets top dollar for the aswell yet he is a disaster on the star front. I know a man that bought 3 bullocks off him last year and killed them during the summer and the averaged €2300 at 520kg carcass under 30 months and they wouldn't have been massively pushed. I think that genetically Charolais cattle have moved away from that huge growth rate a bit when you see the likes of fiston and lgl being the most widely used sires. Not sure if it's a step in the right direction...

patsy_mccabe

The only worry would be calving difficulty with a new bull like that. No harm try a few cows before going mad using him. Super looking bull alright.

limo_100

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I wouldn't take much notice of the stars with him. If his calving difficulty rises he will get hammered on icbf and more than likely they will. I much rather the look of him to some of the piggy little bulls that are being pushed hard by the ai companies. Looks more like Charolais did ten years ago. I have a neighbour with a bull by newlook out of a 52 cow and I have never seen cattle like what he breeds to put on weight and he always gets top dollar for the aswell yet he is a disaster on the star front. I know a man that bought 3 bullocks off him last year and killed them during the summer and the averaged €2300 at 520kg carcass under 30 months and they wouldn't have been massively pushed. I think that genetically Charolais cattle have moved away from that huge growth rate a bit when you see the likes of fiston and lgl being the most widely used sires. Not sure if it's a step in the right direction...

wel Im going to pull you up on something maybe you are right the breed has changed alot of the size that used to come from the likes of newlook have slowed abit in pursuit of the weanling trade but lgl i have a few and there weight gain is phenomenal I have an lgl bullock march 14 closing in on 650kg possibly the best we have ever had for weight gain and not bad for size either. Also if your looking for an old style Charolais bull use GKA I have a few on the ground from the Autumn calvers great growth will make great stores

Kovu

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Looks more like Charolais did ten years ago. .

NXB was a favourite of mine years ago, dunno if any of his semen is still to be got. Bred serious weanlings. As did NBC and BVX. We used them almost exclusively for two/three years in a row. Always had weanling bulls 400kg+ at 8/9 months back then.

Limestone Cowboy

limo_100 wrote: »

wel Im going to pull you up on something maybe you are right the breed has changed alot of the size that used to come from the likes of newlook have slowed abit in pursuit of the weanling trade but lgl i have a few and there weight gain is phenomenal I have an lgl bullock march 14 closing in on 650kg possibly the best we have ever had for weight gain and not bad for size either. Also if your looking for an old style Charolais bull use GKA I have a few on the ground from the Autumn calvers great growth will make great stores

Fair enough, that's some weight gain in fairness. Those 3 bullocks the neighbour had were 640kg when he sold them at 18 months aswell. I don't feed any worse than him and my Lims would be 150kg behind than at that age at the very least, no way I could get them near that weight. Only one breed to put down the scales and it would be a shame to lose it.

Farrell

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I wouldn't take much notice of the stars with him. If his calving difficulty rises he will get hammered on icbf and more than likely they will. I much rather the look of him to some of the piggy little bulls that are being pushed hard by the ai companies. Looks more like Charolais did ten years ago. I have a neighbour with a bull by newlook out of a 52 cow and I have never seen cattle like what he breeds to put on weight and he always gets top dollar for the aswell yet he is a disaster on the star front. I know a man that bought 3 bullocks off him last year and killed them during the summer and the averaged €2300 at 520kg carcass under 30 months and they wouldn't have been massively pushed. I think that genetically Charolais cattle have moved away from that huge growth rate a bit when you see the likes of fiston and lgl being the most widely used sires. Not sure if it's a step in the right direction...

Sadly calving figures can destroy a bull, sure look at DEZ.
He looks big with good frame, is that reality or just a good photographer?

Farrell

limo_100 wrote: »

wel Im going to pull you up on something maybe you are right the breed has changed alot of the size that used to come from the likes of newlook have slowed abit in pursuit of the weanling trade but lgl i have a few and there weight gain is phenomenal I have an lgl bullock march 14 closing in on 650kg possibly the best we have ever had for weight gain and not bad for size either. Also if your looking for an old style Charolais bull use GKA I have a few on the ground from the Autumn calvers great growth will make great stores

Good looking bull too, but so are other Bollenger sons, & not great for stars (if you're following them)

Farrell

Kovu wrote: »

NXB was a favourite of mine years ago, dunno if any of his semen is still to be got. Bred serious weanlings. As did NBC and BVX. We used them almost exclusively for two/three years in a row. Always had weanling bulls 400kg+ at 8/9 months back then.

Bova have some great Bulls, even VAK left his mark.
Had you Patrick, or just order the straws?

ruben37

Any pedigree breeders breeding Lisnagre Elite (LGL) daughters if so what bulls are you breeding to?

Kovu

Farrell wrote: »

Bova have some great Bulls, even VAK left his mark.
Had you Patrick, or just order the straws?

Patrick B?

Nah, use a different fella. He's very good around the cattle and knows his stuff almost as well as myself :P Invincible was a great breeder of breeding bulls, VAK's sire, still see him as GS/MGS in a lot of Ch lads. Only ch bulls I've used this year were PIO and CSQ. 2 BAs, one BB and LM on rest of them.