Heineken Cup - General Discussion Thread

errlloyd

The reason English teams are **** is surely because they have a salary cap.

Did Thornley say in his last article that Toulose budget was 33 mn and the English Salary cap is only 4mn?

CatFromHue

The salary cap was brought in because some English teams were operating at a loss. If I remember right only 2 or 3 clubs actually broke even/ran at a profit out of the Premiership.

It unfairly punishes the teams that were actually been run properly. I think Leicester and Northampton were two clubs that had a high turnover. The cap actually hinders these clubs as they in theory have the money but can't spend it.

A much more fairer way would be to have clubs not spend more than they bring in. This means the clubs will not be in danger of running into a debt and also making the bigger teams more competitive in Europe. It would also make these clubs stronger in the Aviva Premiership though. It's kind of ironic when the head of the Aviva Premiership (the guy who was saying the Rado teams have an unfair advantage in Europe) is recommending qualification methods that will hinder the smaller unions with an attitude of tough luck. Yet he doesn't have this attitude with the smaller Premiership teams.

Take Leicester for example. They have one of the highest home attendances in Europe of 21096* for their domestic league. So 21096 x 11 (no of home games) x 22 (avg ticket price) = £5,105,232. So without any sponsorship, merchandising, or grants for the RFU Leicester have brought in more money than the cap.

*http://www.northamptonsaints.co.uk/news/7853.php

CIARAN_BOYLE

errlloyd wrote: »

The reason English teams are **** is surely because they have a salary cap.

Did Thornley say in his last article that Toulose budget was 33 mn and the English Salary cap is only 4mn?

Salary cap is just player wages the toulose budget is everything from wagers to advertising to mantainence to paying the chef in the michelin restaurant owned by the club

errlloyd

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Salary cap is just player wages the toulose budget is everything from wagers to advertising to mantainence to paying the chef in the michelin restaurant owned by the club

Like presumably in rugby terms they have close to unlimited power to attract anyone the club needs to the club?

irishbucsfan

errlloyd wrote: »

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Salary cap is just player wages the toulose budget is everything from wagers to advertising to mantainence to paying the chef in the michelin restaurant owned by the club

Like presumably in rugby terms they have close to unlimited power to attract anyone the club needs to the club?

Financially, yes.

ed7890

What kind of budget are the provinces working on? Would the total wage bill be over 4m?

the_doctor199

Announced that dates and KO times of the QF will be announced in the morning (Wednesday).

ongarite

the_doctor199 wrote: »

Announced that dates and KO times of the QF will be announced in the morning (Wednesday).

Sounds good, I got an email saying Leinster season ticket holders would be able to buy tickets from 2pm tomorrow.

phog

Munster V Ulster will be on in Thomond Park

CatFromHue

phog wrote: »

Munster V Ulster will be on in Thomond Park

I thought that was the case since Sunday afternoon. Did something change since?

TheTwiz

phog wrote: »

Munster V Ulster will be on in Thomond Park

Really? I thought it was going to be in the Stade de France

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

I thought that was the case since Sunday afternoon. Did something change since?

There was lots of rumours that the IRFU were asked to move it and were still considering the request.

CatFromHue

phog wrote: »

There was lots of rumours that the IRFU were asked to move it and were still considering the request.

IRFU count cost as Reds refuse to move Ulster clash to Lansdowne

Munster will definitely play their home Heineken Cup quarter-final at Thomond Park after the IRFU confirmed they would not put pressure on the province to switch the tie to Lansdowne Road.

Munster could earn the IRFU a significant six-figure sum should they move their home clash with Ulster from the 26,000-capacity Thomond to the national stadium, which can hold almost twice that.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/irfu-count-cost-as-reds-refuse-to-move-ulster-clash-to-lansdowne-2997230.html

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It's hard to know what's going on behind the scenes really.

Fireball07

CatFromHue wrote: »

IRFU count cost as Reds refuse to move Ulster clash to Lansdowne

Munster will definitely play their home Heineken Cup quarter-final at Thomond Park after the IRFU confirmed they would not put pressure on the province to switch the tie to Lansdowne Road.

Munster could earn the IRFU a significant six-figure sum should they move their home clash with Ulster from the 26,000-capacity Thomond to the national stadium, which can hold almost twice that.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/irfu-count-cost-as-reds-refuse-to-move-ulster-clash-to-lansdowne-2997230.html

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It's hard to know what's going on behind the scenes really.

Well Munster would be stupid to move it to Lansdowne, that's basically handing the initiative to Ulster. It had to be played in Thomond Park.

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

It's hard to know what's going on behind the scenes really.

It's fairly simple, Munster won the right to have a home QF, we happened to get Ulster as our opponents and some saw the attraction of holding the game in Dublin, fill the stadium and closer for the Ulster fans. Munster held their ground and said No, they wanted it in Thomond Park.

The moving of the game would have huge financial implications for the city and some of the fans.

In my view the Munster branch were 100% correct in not moving the game.

As someone as already said and I paraphrase "why would the team bust their bollocks in getting a home game for the bean counters to move it 120 miles away"

Podge_irl

I think they may well have moved it if it was anyone except Munster. It's a significant boon to move.

CatFromHue

Fireball07 wrote: »

Well Munster would be stupid to move it to Lansdowne, that's basically handing the initiative to Ulster. It had to be played in Thomond Park.

It would have been worth a lot of money to them though. Also Munster have played there twice already whereas Ulster have never been there.

profitius

I think Munster are rightly more concerned about getting through. The IRFU will have 2 games in the Aviva so not too bad. They get €420,000 x 3 from the ERC for the 3 teams qualifying for the 1/4 finals and a futher €420,000 when Munster or Ulster makes it to the semi. As well as another €420,000 if Leinster get through which looks very likely.

CatFromHue

phog wrote: »

In my view the Munster branch were 100% correct in not moving the game.

As someone as already said and I paraphrase "why would the team bust their bollocks in getting a home game for the bean counters to move it 120 miles away"

I agree, ethically it's a no brainer.

Financially those beans come in handy though.

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

It would have been worth a lot of money to them though. Also Munster have played there twice already whereas Ulster have never been there.

I think Munster wanted the game in Thomond anyway but in the current economic climate they would have lost a lot of goodwill if they moved the game to Dublin. It also showcases their own ground to a large TV audience.

BTW, would the sod in Aviva be able to withstand two rugby games on the same week-end?

vinny chase

I don't think Munster should be criticised for this at all.

The whole point of working so hard in qualifying is to get a home advantage; a game in Lansdowne Road would be no more a home game for Munster than it would be for Ulster.

Perhaps if Munster had been playing a French side or an English side there would be so more slight justification for moving the game on financial grounds, but really I think first and foremost Munster's focus is on winning the game; and this puts them in the best position to do so.

Absolute no brainer for me.

durkadurka

Absolute no brainier. They don't call it home advantage for nothing.

Tox56

You can't get more of a home advantage than Thomond Park, it really would be a braindead decision to move somewhere where Cork is further away than Belfast.

totallegend

phog wrote: »

It's fairly simple, Munster won the right to have a home QF, we happened to get Ulster as our opponents and some saw the attraction of holding the game in Dublin, fill the stadium and closer for the Ulster fans. Munster held their ground and said No, they wanted it in Thomond Park.

The moving of the game would have huge financial implications for the city and some of the fans.

In my view the Munster branch were 100% correct in not moving the game.

As someone as already said and I paraphrase "why would the team bust their bollocks in getting a home game for the bean counters to move it 120 miles away"

Is there any evidence that anyone put any pressure on Munster to move it?

phog

totallegend wrote: »

Is there any evidence that anyone put any pressure on Munster to move it?

I doubt there was any pressure put on Munster and I certainly didnt say there was but there certainly was media talk of Munster being asked to move the match.

danthefan

phog wrote: »

I doubt there was any pressure put on Munster and I certainly didnt say there was but there certainly was media talk of Munster being asked to move the match.

So who did they hold their ground against and say no to exactly? There were ticket prices announced almost immediately after the Saints match, it was never moving away from Thomond. You're, for some odd reason, trying to dramatise the issue.

phog

danthefan wrote: »

So who did they hold their ground against and say no to exactly? There were ticket prices announced almost immediately after the Saints match, it was never moving away from Thomond. You're, for some odd reason, trying to dramatise the issue.

Sorry not trying to dramatise it all but it was certainly said here in Limerick that Ulster/IRFU had requested the game to be played in Aviva.

Some posters here (youself included) and on other foums have mentioned the money attraction to Munster by moving, I countered that here more than once.

danthefan wrote: »

I'd imagine they'd have to think hard about turning down all that revenue though. They could double what they'd make from Thomond.

I think you're incorrect about the ticket prices being known almost immediately after the Saints match, the ticket announcement was made until the 22nd and there was no mention of the stadium being used in that press release.

Podge_irl

For the record it's not just the larger stadium that's a consideration. The profit split goes from 50/50 to 65/35 if you move the game to a bigger stadium so it was a LOT of money at stake. I didn't think they'd move but it's not an unreasonable discussion.

nordydan

fryup wrote: »

will the munster v ulster be a safe game to bring children to??

i mean will there be any political/sectarian undertones to it? nasty chanting and that?

Yes the Ulster fans will almost certainly throw your children into a pot at half time once they sus their religion. They'll make a tasty snack for us. Yum yum

durkadurka

The twitter machine says Munster ulster on Easter Sunday