Sinn Fein now second most popular party

Alopex · 08-10-2011 8:07pm

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

I wonder how the relationship with Britain would be affected should SF find themselves in office after the next election. As unlikely as it is for the moment it would be an interesting one, especially should Britain/England depending on the Scots decision be governed by a conservative government (far more likely in a free England). After all, would the Irish people think of the damage it may do to trading agreement, diplomatic relations etc?

I doubt it would make any difference. The UK doesn't want to damage trade with the Irish republic. As long as Sinn Fein are part of the peace process they can use that to maintain economic links should SF get into power

Mike 1972 · 09-10-2011 12:36am

sarumite wrote: »

Quoted from the same wiki source

"Formation 1932 Extinction 1933".

Not really in the here and now as far as relevance goes.

If FG's (rather tenous) links to European Fascism back in the 1930's are in anyways relevent in 2011 what of the Shinners (rather stronger) links a decade later ?

blahfckingblah · 09-10-2011 2:03pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

If FG's (rather tenous) links to European Fascism back in the 1930's are in anyways relevent in 2011 what of the Shinners (rather stronger) links a decade later ?

Irrelevant yes, tenous no.

LordSutch · 09-10-2011 3:38pm

realies wrote: »

Hilarious, delusional, and brainwashed?

I take it you got told off too, for saying those three words?

Sunnyisland · 09-10-2011 3:40pm

LordSutch wrote: »

I take it you got told off too, for saying those three words?

Not yet thanks

Wolfe Tone · 09-10-2011 3:41pm

Sunday times poll:

FG 36 -8; SF 17 +4; FF 15 NC; LAB 14 +2; GREEN 4 +2; IND/OTHERS 13+1.

Thats in comparison to another Poll in August I believe. Consensus seems to be forming that SF are the second most popular party.

LordSutch · 09-10-2011 3:48pm

realies wrote: »

Not yet thanks

Interesting.

Sunnyisland · 09-10-2011 3:51pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Interesting.

Why please explain as one does need to know these things.

djpbarry · 09-10-2011 4:30pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Sunday times poll:

FG 36 -8; SF 17 +4; FF 15 NC; LAB 14 +2; GREEN 4 +2; IND/OTHERS 13+1.

Thats in comparison to another Poll in August I believe. Consensus seems to be forming that SF are the second most popular party.

Sure, if you want to ignore margins of error. A far more rational conclusion would be that, at the moment, FG are, by a country mile, the most popular party in the country, while SF, FF, Labour and Independents are all on similar low levels of support.

Lockstep · 09-10-2011 5:10pm

Turbine wrote: »

Sinn Féin's first preference vote in this year's election was unchanged from the 2007 election (10%), and yet they nearly quadrupled their seat count, and came within a hundred or so votes in some constituencies of winning more seats, and did so because of transfers.

Well that's completely untrue.
SF's 1st preference vote in 2007 was 7%, not 10%.

Turbine wrote: »

And in this MRBI poll, they found that 70% of people who voted Sinn Féin in the last election will also vote for Martin McGuinness in this election, so that in itself shows that SF are no longer transfer toxic.

McGuinness is the least transfer friendly candidate out of all the presidential candidates.

I fail to see how 70% of people who identify as SF voters voting for the SF candidate shows they are no longer transfer toxic.

Turbine · 09-10-2011 6:55pm

Lockstep wrote: »

Well that's completely untrue.
SF's 1st preference vote in 2007 was 7%, not 10%.

3% still doesn't equate to nearly quadrupling your seat count. My point was that they managed to increase their seat count by 9 and came within 200 votes of winning 3 or 4 more seats with only a small increase in their 1st preference vote, which shows they got a lot of transfers, proving they are no longer transfer toxic.

Lockstep wrote: »

McGuinness is the least transfer friendly candidate out of all the presidential candidates.

I fail to see how 70% of people who identify as SF voters voting for the SF candidate shows they are no longer transfer toxic.

I would've assumed this statistic meant anyone who voted SF, 1st preference or not.

Chucky the tree · 10-10-2011 4:27am

Turbine wrote: »

3% still doesn't equate to nearly quadrupling your seat count. My point was that they managed to increase their seat count by 9 and came within 200 votes of winning 3 or 4 more seats with only a small increase in their 1st preference vote, which shows they got a lot of transfers, proving they are no longer transfer toxic.

Considering seats can be decided by as little as a few hundred votes then increasing your first prefernce by 80k could bring a big increase in seats.

Can'tseeme · 10-10-2011 7:45pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

SF have been toeing the line with cuts in the north while objecting to everything in the south. So you are right, they wouldn't be worse, simply the same.

A bit of a lazy post there.

The Westminster government cut the block grant to the North and the executive had to divide the cuts throughout the departments.

Stormont has no sway or leverage with the British Exchequer and no fiscal powers of their own.

Lockstep · 11-10-2011 3:50pm

Turbine wrote: »

3% still doesn't equate to nearly quadrupling your seat count. My point was that they managed to increase their seat count by 9 and came within 200 votes of winning 3 or 4 more seats with only a small increase in their 1st preference vote, which shows they got a lot of transfers, proving they are no longer transfer toxic.

Mainly as this isn't first past the post. They increased their vote by nearly 50% (3% of FP is a lot in PRSTV) and with 80k votes (which is a lot). In now way does it show SF are no longer transfer toxic.
Less toxic? Possibly. No longer toxic? Not at all.

Just admit that you were wrong in SF getting the same vote as 2007.

Turbine wrote: »

I would've assumed this statistic meant anyone who voted SF, 1st preference or not.

You assume that anyone who gives a party a preference is one of their voters, even if it was 10th or 11th? That would make the vote meaningless as it;d be impossible to determine who supported what party.

Using that logic, I'm simultaneously a Labour/SF/FF/FG/Green/Independent voter. Which is balls. Going by both 2007 and 2011, I'm a Labour voter. Who I have my 15th preference to is of little importance.

jimmycrackcorm · 13-10-2011 2:53am

Can'tseeme wrote: »

A bit of a lazy post there.

The Westminster government cut the block grant to the North and the executive had to divide the cuts throughout the departments.

Stormont has no sway or leverage with the British Exchequer and no fiscal powers of their own.

Nonsense. You know rightly that were SF in power that their excuse would be that the have no sway or leverage with the IMF/EU. They would implement cuts as any government would have to otherwise they would be completely incompetent. The problem is they lie to the electorate.

Can'tseeme · 13-10-2011 11:27am

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Nonsense. You know rightly that were SF in power that their excuse would be that the have no sway or leverage with the IMF/EU. They would implement cuts as any government would have to otherwise they would be completely incompetent. The problem is they lie to the electorate.

Nonsense. I'm dealing with facts regarding the difference in governmental powers in the North compared to Dáil Éireann.

The Stormont Assembly has no fiscal powers, they've no leverage or sway with the British Exchequer. The DUP, UUP, SF, SDLP, Alliance have been handed their budget by the British Government and told to get on with it. Fact.

It is totally hypothetical from either of us to predict what SF would do if they were in power in the South. Personnally, I'd say they'd have taken a different course of action from the coalition judging by their last manifesto.

caseyann · 13-10-2011 3:25pm

It is inevitable SF will become in the top leader board of the political parties.
I came in to see if people could be adult about them becoming second most popular,surprise surprise the usual suspects so predictable appear.:rolleyes:

SF will be top of that board very soon to the utter anger of the small few who think they are in large amount lol.
SF work on the ground with the people and do a great job and would do a great job in power.Cant wait till that day comes.:):cool:

c_man · 13-10-2011 3:56pm

caseyann wrote: »

It is inevitable SF will become in the top leader board of the political parties.

It is? How so?

caseyann · 13-10-2011 4:05pm

c_man wrote: »

It is? How so?

Because they are bringing fresh new ideas and thinking of the country future and peoples future rather than their own pockets and the banks pockets.
Its their time,time for change and they are the change Ireland needs even though some are afraid of it.
As we can see nothing has changed with the change they decided on.

Liam Byrne · 13-10-2011 4:14pm

caseyann wrote: »

Because they are bringing fresh new ideas and thinking of the country future and peoples future rather than their own pockets and the banks pockets.

What fresh new ideas ?

premierstone · 13-10-2011 4:15pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Nonsense. You know rightly that were SF in power that their excuse would be that the have no sway or leverage with the IMF/EU. They would implement cuts as any government would have to otherwise they would be completely incompetent. The problem is they lie to the electorate.

In contrast to what party would that be?? Or have you been following Irish politics for the last 10 years?

Apart from the fact that you are very very wrong, general elections are decided by local communities voting for local politicans and Sinn Feins support on the ground level is growing rapidly due to the hands on approach to local politics of the majority of their councillors/members etc.

The common man/woman on the street couldnt give a flying fcuk about Sinn Fein historical background if they perceive that a vote for them can have a positive effect on them right now, basically Me Feiners will become Sinn Feiners

caseyann · 13-10-2011 4:53pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What fresh new ideas ?

I am to busy to go into it now,you have eyes read their site and their proposals.:)

djpbarry · 13-10-2011 5:08pm

premierstone wrote: »

Apart from the fact that you are very very wrong, general elections are decided by local communities voting for local politicians...

Which is a huge problem in Irish politics. Elected representatives should be concerned with national issues, not local ones.

premierstone wrote: »

The common man/woman on the street couldnt give a flying fcuk about Sinn Fein historical background if they perceive that a vote for them can have a positive effect on them right now, basically Me Feiners will become Sinn Feiners

So how come they’re not in power yet? I’ve been hearing how amazing Sinn Féin are “on the ground” for years now, but they’re still not even close to forming a government. Seems to me you’re seriously underestimating the “common man/woman”.

Wolfe Tone · 13-10-2011 5:13pm

djpbarry wrote: »

Which is a huge problem in Irish politics. Elected representatives should be concerned with national issues, not local ones.
So how come they’re not in power yet? I’ve been hearing how amazing Sinn Féin are “on the ground” for years now, but they’re still not even close to forming a government. Seems to me you’re seriously underestimating the “common man/woman”.

I think you will find SF are in government...

Liam Byrne · 13-10-2011 5:16pm

caseyann wrote: »

I am to busy to go into it now,you have eyes read their site and their proposals.:)

That the site with all the objectionable IRA paraphernalia for sale ? If so, not a hope.

Come back to me when they have dumped that crap and are prepared to act like a proper political party.

Wolfe Tone · 13-10-2011 5:23pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That the site with all the objectionable IRA paraphernalia for sale ? If so, not a hope.

Come back to me when they have dumped that crap and are prepared to act like a proper political party.

That would be the sinnfein shop, some nice things on there. You think its crap? I certainly don't. Objectionable? Not in my book, or many other peoples.

I have to admit over the past 6/8 months you have gone from a poster who I generally respected to someone who expresses a ridiculous amount of outrage in response to the slightest provocation, you weren't always like this Liam.

Now you are refusing to look at the SF website because there might be IRA stuff on it :rolleyes: Afraid looking at the SF site will suddenly change you into a shinner?

Come on Liam, don't be ridiculous.

Oh, and btw, SF are a "proper" political party. They are the second largest political party in the north, they have a large amount of elected reps across the whole island and they are growing fast. Better get used to it.

If there were more people like you there would never have been any peace process. SF are a perfectly legitimate political party, get over it.

Liam Byrne · 13-10-2011 5:29pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I have to admit over the past 6/8 months you have gone from a poster who I generally respected to someone who expresses a ridiculous amount of outrage in response to the slightest provocation, you weren't always like this Liam.

I am getting completely disgusted with people justifying the unjustifiable and throwing lies and accusations and slurs around.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Now you are refusing to look at the SF website because there might be IRA stuff on it :rolleyes: Afraid looking at the SF site will suddenly change you into a shinner?

No, there's no hope of that happening. But just as I'd refuse to enter a shop that sold that crap, I'll refuse to visit their website. Their call, their choice.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Come on Liam, don't be ridiculous.

Objecting to glorifying violence and the murder of innocents isn't ridiculous.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

If there were more people like you there would never have been any peace process. SF are a perfectly legitimate political party, get over it.

One that refuses to engage in proper debate and accept any justified criticism
.....they're a proper Irish politicial party alright, I'll give them that.

Doesn't mean I have to accept it.....we need and deserve better.

Wolfe Tone · 13-10-2011 5:47pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I am getting completely disgusted with people justifying the unjustifiable and throwing lies and accusations and slurs around.

No, there's no hope of that happening. But just as I'd refuse to enter a shop that sold that crap, I'll refuse to visit their website. Their call, their choice.

Objecting to glorifying violence and the murder of innocents isn't ridiculous.

One that refuses to engage in proper debate and accept any justified criticism
.....they're a proper Irish politicial party alright, I'll give them that.

Doesn't mean I have to accept it.....we need and deserve better.

Objecting to glorifying violence and the murder of innocents isn't ridiculous.

They are not glorifying the murder of innocents no more than the 2016 commemoration will be.

Pointless trying to engage with you, your views are excessively pedantic and black and white. You never take on board what people say at all or try to engage. You wont even try to learn more by looking at the SF site ffs. Back on ignore you go.

premierstone · 13-10-2011 5:49pm

djpbarry wrote: »

Which is a huge problem in Irish politics. Elected representatives should be concerned with national issues, not local ones.
So how come they’re not in power yet? I’ve been hearing how amazing Sinn Féin are “on the ground” for years now, but they’re still not even close to forming a government. Seems to me you’re seriously underestimating the “common man/woman”.

Agree with you on the local politics/national politics issue, what I am pointing out is that is the reality and that is why Sinn Fein are gaining support at a pretty rapid rate - just shy of 7% in 2007 General Election to 16% as of the most recent polls, remarkable growth in anyones book.

That is the whole point of this thread, but some people seem scared by this and morally threatened or something, yet they dont seem to be able to detail the positive attributes of any of the alternatives, just continue with the smear campaigns, be funny if it wasnt so backward.

premierstone · 13-10-2011 5:53pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I am getting completely disgusted with people justifying the unjustifiable and throwing lies and accusations and slurs around.

See thats how most free thinking people feel about the cronies in FF, FG, and Labour ( Greens if they even qualify as a party anymore) and why more and more see SF as a viable option, you do unterstand how democracy works??

Sinn Fein now second most popular party

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