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Irish Slutwalk

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12467…12

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    #92
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Organize the march for it then :). People organize marches about something that affects them..

    Let's imagine for a minute you are at a hypothetical hen party (when this behaviour I've noticed is more prevalent) and one of your party grabs the ass/crotch/whatever of a random guy at the bar or walking past your group. Would you be shocked and appalled and refer to them as a 'sexual assaulter'?

    Societal perceptions are that men should ignore stuff like that. Men don't get sexually assaulted or even raped by women lolz. Getting kissed unasked by some random old wan for a hen dare, sure it's only fun and games. Had your arse grabbed by a girl while standing at the bar, ah sure don't be so serious...


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    #93
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Matthew23 wrote: »
    i did read what you are saying and it is utter nonsense. the march is giving out the message that it is ok to wear these clothes, fine, but a march doesnt possess some sort of divine providence that will decide that, the march having taken place, women wont get raped or recieve unwanted attention. it is utterly fatuous.

    and you may not have intended to say all men are rapists, but the fact is that the vastest majority of men are as far removed from rape as you are from sense, a distinction which you blurred in your remarks.

    it is people like you who hold back the advancement of women's rights with the kind of mischaracterisations and bawling nonsense you have spewed here.

    Of course the March isn't going to change everything :rolleyes:, what it is aiming to do is get in the news the message that it is okay for women to dress like that and not be groped. Which it has achieved, It is in the news, and we are discussing it here.

    "The vastest majority of men are as far removed from rape', how could you possibly know? How do you know what anyone is thinking apart from yourself? Or how could I know? All I know is the many friends who have said to me about being groped in nightclub.

    And obviously it has happened to enough women, that they are organising marches about it in several countries.

    "No sense, bawling nonsense" it is you sounding bitter not me.:rolleyes:


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    #94
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    perceptions need to change, I think they think of "rapists" as far seperate to themselves: a man who breaks into a girls house and rapes her, and differentiate their own behaviour to make it ok.

    Sticking your hand up a girls skirt in a club and groping at her crotch as she's walking by in a packed club is sexual assault, just one example I can think of many I've heard.

    Women have randomly grabbed my crotch on numerous so occasions without my permission so maybe women's perceptions need to change. Maybe it's a power and dominance thing too. You are not entitled to grab my crotch.


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    #95
    Cianos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Cianos


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    "The vastest majority of men are as far removed from rape', how could you possibly know? How do you know what anyone is thinking apart from yourself? Or how could I know? All I know is the many friends who have said to me about being groped in nightclub.

    People making flying accusations on the behavior of all men without anything other than stories about their own friends are not doing much to help the cause.

    How many men have your friends not been groped by in clubs? If there were 200 men in a club on a particular night, were your friends groped by over a hundred guys that night? Because that would be the majority. Or did it happen a few times and you then jump to conclude that the vast majority of guys go on with that carry on?


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    #96
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    prinz wrote: »
    Let's imagine for a minute you are at a hen party (when this behaviour I've noticed is more prevalent) and one of your party grabs the ass/crotch/whatever of a guy at the bar. Would you be shocked and appalled and refer to them as a 'sexual assaulter'?

    Is there a comparison? I have had my ass pinched at a bar and I usually felt chuffed to be honest. BUT that is not a work place or a weaker girl walking home on her own dressed up.

    It goes back to freedom, a girl can dress as sexy, or in anything that makes her feel good, as she wants and that never is an excuse or a defence for an unwanted advance.


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    #97
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    prinz wrote: »
    Let's imagine for a minute you are at a hypothetical hen party (when this behaviour I've noticed is more prevalent) and one of your party grabs the ass/crotch/whatever of a random guy at the bar or walking past your group. Would you be shocked and appalled and refer to them as a 'sexual assaulter'?

    Societal perceptions are that men should ignore stuff like that. Men don't get sexually assaulted or even raped by women lolz. Getting kissed unasked by some random old wan for a hen dare, sure it's only fun and games. Had your arse grabbed by a girl while standing at the bar, ah sure don't be so serious...

    Crotch yes definitely. I've had my ass slapped, pinched on so many nights out that that would be flogging a dead horse. It annoys me but I get on with it.

    But one night I was standing in a club, and a guy walked towards me, stuck his hand up my skirt, felt my crotch, and just walked on. I cried for hours after that and felt really violated.

    Nobody has the right to manhandle your private parts in public.


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    #98
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    Stikes me as a lowest-common-denominator approach to an otherwise important issue.


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    #99
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    biko wrote: »
    I hope they have umbrellas, it's torrential out there.
    So the slutwalk will be "wet t-shirt competition"? :pac:
    bicardi19 wrote: »
    Or stride of pride!!
    Wlak of shame - ladies
    Stride of pride - lads

    =-=

    If 18 ugly women get raped, and two good looking drunks get raped, the media will focus on the two good looking drunks.


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    #100
    LeeHoffmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭LeeHoffmann


    Eh, not it doesn't mean that they are responsible for themselves getting raped
    How can you not be responsible for something if you caused it to occur?


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    #101
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    First thing we need to get out there is: women have every right to dress how they want without unwanted touching from men.
    Wow, groundbreaking stuff that. Once men know that is the case it will almost certainly stop.


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    #102
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Women have randomly grabbed my crotch on numerous so occasions without my permission so maybe women's perceptions need to change. Maybe it's a power and dominance thing too. You are not entitled to grab my crotch.

    I agree.


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    #103
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    4leto wrote: »
    Is there a comparison? I have had my ass pinched at a bar and I usually felt chuffed to be honest..

    Yes there is very much a comparison. Why is it deemed ok to pinch or grope a guy, but not a girl for instance in a crowded nightclub as misdlandsmissus keeps referring to. I know girls who will themselves do it and see it as 'harmless fun' but if someone did it to them it would the end of the world, how dare he lay his hand on me etc etc.
    4leto wrote: »
    It goes back to freedom, a girl can dress as sexy, or in anything that makes her feel good, as she wants and that never is an excuse or a defence for an unwanted advance.

    Absolutely. I am just questioning double standards.


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    #104
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    CiaranC wrote: »
    Wow, groundbreaking stuff that. Once men know that is the case it will almost certainly stop.

    It wont stop but it might put an end to the moronic repost that "she was only looken for it" like why else would she dress like that.


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    #105
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    I thought every day in Galway was a slutwalk


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    #106
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    CiaranC wrote: »
    Wow, groundbreaking stuff that. Once men know that is the case it will almost certainly stop.

    Why won't it stop in your opinion? What needs to change?


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    #107
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    I love Galway. fair play girls


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    #108
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    prinz wrote: »
    Yes there is very much a comparison. Why is it deemed ok to pinch or grope a guy, but not a girl for instance in a crowded nightclub as misdlandsmissus keeps referring to.



    Absolutely. I am just questioning double standards.

    Because it goes back to power, women are in a weaker position in society, so they would be more sensitive to being demeaned.

    For instance if a minority was to call me a honky or whitey, it would be lot more demeaning for me to call them a Ni##er.


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    #109
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    LeeHoffmann wrote: »
    How can you not be responsible for something if you caused it to occur?

    By getting into a car you make it more likely you will die in car crash which you have every right to do. If you die as the result of someone else's bad driving the other driver is responsible. So you if hadn't decided to take the risk of driving you would have not died but you are still not responsible. The other driver is responsible.


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    #110
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    Does a kid dressing like a nerd make him more likely to be bullied? Serious question.


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    #111
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    LeeHoffmann wrote: »
    How can you not be responsible for something if you caused it to occur?

    Put it this way Lee. Let's say I get in a row with a waiter over his service for no reason at all. He thinks I am a bollix. When I leave the restaurant he comes round the back and batters my head with a rolling pin. Did I have a part in his initial opinion of me? Of course I did. Am I in someway responsible for him cracking my skull open? No, not at all.


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    #112
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    sensibleken wrote: »
    I love Galway. fair play girls

    Ahhhhhhhhhh Galway,,so when is the dublin one, I will support this by watching.


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    #113
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    While I don't condone women groping men either, I believe that there usually is a difference in terms of power relations.

    If a girl gropes a guy it's a rare event, but guys grope girls much more often, you can see that in any nightclub on any night. Therefore it's much more tiresome for women.

    More importantly, by and large, a guy will be much physically stronger than a girl meaning if he chooses to grope her forcefully or even rape her, there might not be much she could do to stop it, physically. And lots of men persist in trying to chat up or grope a girl who's not interested, which can be very intimidating.
    So a guy groping a girl can be threatening.

    Think of it like the principle behind bullying. It's the more powerful (physically, in this sense) attacking the weaker.


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    #114
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    CiaranC wrote: »
    Does a kid dressing like a nerd make him more likely to be bullied? Serious question.

    It shouldn't, but it probably will.


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    #115
    LeeHoffmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭LeeHoffmann


    By getting into a car you make it more likely you will die in car crash which you have every right to do. If you die as the result of someone else's bad driving the other driver is responsible. So you if hadn't decided to take the risk of driving you would have not died but you are still not responsible. The other driver is responsible.
    He didn't say 'by going out on night's out in revealing clothing' you make it more likely that somebody will rape you - He said that women wearing revealing clothes may cause men to think they're ''up for it''.


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    #116
    mackg
    Registered Users Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    What's your issue with this picture. Let's pin it down. That she's unattractive? So you think she won't be raped?

    He never said anything about the subject of rape to be fair, just that he was going to be sick.

    4leto wrote: »
    Is there a comparison? I have had my ass pinched at a bar and I usually felt chuffed to be honest. BUT that is not a work place or a weaker girl walking home on her own dressed up.

    It goes back to freedom, a girl can dress as sexy, or in anything that makes her feel good, as she wants and that never is an excuse or a defence for an unwanted advance.

    Way to speak for all men everywhere there buddy, if a girl came into this topic and said that crap she would be crucified, and the topic of groping in bars is very much under discussion here.
    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Crotch yes definitely. I've had my ass slapped, pinched on so many nights out that that would be flogging a dead horse. It annoys me but I get on with it.

    But one night I was standing in a club, and a guy walked towards me, stuck his hand up my skirt, felt my crotch, and just walked on. I cried for hours after that and felt really violated.

    Nobody has the right to manhandle your private parts in public.

    If you feel so strongly about it stand the fcuk up for yourself, get in their face next time they grab your arse if the people who do this were confronted maybe they would stop it. Obviously that only applies to the groping but fcuk it it's a start.


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    #117
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    4leto wrote: »
    Because it goes back to power, women are in a weaker position in society, so they would be more sensitive to being demeaned..

    Ah the old little ladies and manly men view. Isn't that exactly the kid of societal perception that leads to many men not reporting domestice violence, sexual abuse etc?
    4leto wrote: »
    For instance if a minority was to call me a honky or whitey, it would be lot more demeaning for me to call them a Ni##er.

    No, you would both be equally pig ignorant.


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    #118
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Why won't it stop in your opinion? What needs to change?

    Well, I suspect those capable of rape will still be capable of rape, while those who are incapable and are horrified by the prospect will continue to be so-inclined. Really, the Slut Walk itself makes no sense, even as a format - do you think it'll somehow impress upon a person that the act of rape is wrong? It's hardly a topic with which people find themselves undecided on.

    "Yeah, I was going to rape someone tonight, but those provocatively-dressed women parading through town have changed my mind".


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    #119
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    The King of Moo wrote: »
    While I don't condone women groping men either, I believe that there usually is a difference in terms of power relations.

    If a girl gropes a guy it's a rare event, but guys grope girls much more often, you can see that in any nightclub on any night. Therefore it's much more tiresome for women.

    More importantly, by and large, a guy will be much physically stronger than a girl meaning if he chooses to grope her forcefully or even rape her, there might not be much she could do to stop it, physically. And lots of men persist in trying to chat up or grope a girl who's not interested, which can be very intimidating.
    So a guy groping a girl can be threatening.

    Think of it like the principle behind bullying. It's the more powerful (physically, in this sense) attacking the weaker.

    Wow.

    The exact double standards some people in this thread are talking about.


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    #120
    LeeHoffmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭LeeHoffmann


    I get in a row with a waiter over his service for no reason at all. He thinks I am a bollix. When I leave the restaurant he comes round the back and batters my head with a rolling pin. Did I have a part in his initial opinion of me? Of course I did.
    The difference is - I wouldn't say that you caused him to think you're up for being assaulted


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    #121
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    If a woman wears extremely revealing outfits, they will court, whether welcome or unwelcome, attention from the opposite sex. On a more extreme scale, their outfit may cause certain men to think that they're 'up for it' on a night out and behave with less respect towards them.

    In an ideal world, that wouldn't happen, however, that's the world we live in. To quote Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times, "I have a perfect right to leave my windows open when I nip to the shops for some fags, without being burgled. It doesn’t lessen the guilt of the burglar that I’ve left my window open, or even remotely suggest that I was deserving of being burgled. Just that it was more likely to happen."

    There should be a certain amount of risk management, concerning the outfit you wear, your company and where you're heading before you head out and to march for society to ensure that such precautions are unnecessary is laudable, but I fear unlikely to change anything.

    Rod Liddle? He’s the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one. *say in Dunphy rant voice*


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