Irish Slutwalk

LeeHoffmann

guys - do you really not get the point she's making? rape isn't like burglary - if you're breaking into somebody's house, you know it's against the law. On surveys, young men have stated that they would do things like carry on if they were half-way through when she changed her mind...these guys didn't think that was rape. So obviously they need a bit of educating on the matter. Likewise the surveys that showed that 30% of young people thought a woman was fully or partly to blame if she wore provocative clothes or drank alcohol before she was raped. Also, when people talk about rape, it's often the stranger danger idea they discuss when rape is far more likely to be inflicted on you by somebody you know. Another point: marital rape was legal in Ireland up until 1990 and there are still many countries in which it's legal. So it does seem there's a lot of backward thinking around this issue.

iptba

It's a while since I read the discussion. I believe the impression was given in this thread that giving people suggestions how they might reduce their chances of being a victim of a sexual assault or rape was wrong - people should be free to do whatever they like.

However, just like with many crimes, there may be situations or actions which increase or decrease your chances of being a victim. And just like with many crimes, our life might be easier and freer if there were no strategies that were useful.

And just like with many crimes, we would like them (the crime) to go away and like the idea that with a better society, they wouldn't happen, but that doesn't mean that we are going to reach that situation any time soon.

Even if there are education or societal strategies (i.e. generally aimed at males) that might reduce people raping, doesn't mean that would stop *every* case. Until that happens, learning how to reduce being a victim may have a value.

K-9

iptba wrote: »

Even if there are education or societal strategies (i.e. generally aimed at males) that might reduce people raping, doesn't mean that would stop *every* case. Until that happens, learning how to reduce being a victim may have a value.

I'm kind of wondering what exactly women have to do to reduce the risk though, barring the obvious personal safety measures?

iptba

K-9 wrote: »

I'm kind of wondering what exactly women have to do to reduce the risk though, barring the obvious personal safety measures?

It depends what is defined as the "obvious personal safety measures" to know might be on top of them.

Research might give information on what are risk factors.

K-9

iptba wrote: »

It depends what is defined as the "obvious personal safety measures" to know might be on top of them.

Research might give information on what are risk factors.

Walking alone late at night would be something to avoid for a young lad or girl.

After that I can't think of anything. What are the risk factors that you have researched?

Arianna_26

The King of Moo wrote: »

There's due to be a slutwalk in Galway this afternoon (despite the stormy wind and torrential rain) organised by NUI Galway's Feminist society and the Rape Crisis Centre.

As you probably know, the first slutwalk took place in Toronto in April in response to comments by a police officer that women dressing "sluttily" reduced men's responsibility for rape, to an extent, and it was followed by others around the world.

A ridiculous idea from the police officer of course, and though I have mixed feelings about the effectiveness of the slutwalk as a form of protest, I understand why it took the form it did and the idea behind it.

Now the thing is, today's slutwalk (Ireland's first) isn't in response to any particular comment, and its stated aim is to drive home the point that the way women dress doesn't excuse rape.

Again, a laudable idea, but I'm not sure a slutwalk here is such a good idea. Seeing as it's not based on any high-profile case, I think it's going to send mixed messages at best. I think lots of people who come across it won't get the idea behind it. It made sense shortly after the cop's comments, but now I think most people won't get it.

What do you think? Do we need a slutwalk in Ireland, and will it be effective?

I'm glad we had a slutwalk. We've been repressed far too long what with the Magdalene Laundries and all. More power to them!

iptba

K-9 wrote: »

Walking alone late at night would be something to avoid for a young lad or girl.

After that I can't think of anything. What are the risk factors that you have researched?

I haven't researched anything.

I hear drinking a lot mentioned in the lay media as a risk factor - perhaps comparable to drinking a lot being a risk factor for pedestrians being injured or killed in motor traffic accidents?

Cavehill Red

K-9 wrote: »

Walking alone late at night would be something to avoid for a young lad or girl.

After that I can't think of anything. What are the risk factors that you have researched?

Sorry to jump in the middle of a lengthy debate, but the Rape unit at the Rotunda hospital has reported in the past that up to 80% of the women they see are impaired by alcohol. Furthermore, this has a significant impact on the possibility of identifying their assailants and pursuing prosecution.
So, speaking as a father, friend, brother and son to women, my single piece of advice to Irish women who wish to avoid the horror of being raped is: don't get drunk.

K-9

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Sorry to jump in the middle of a lengthy debate, but the Rape unit at the Rotunda hospital has reported in the past that up to 80% of the women they see are impaired by alcohol. Furthermore, this has a significant impact on the possibility of identifying their assailants and pursuing prosecution.
So, speaking as a father, friend, brother and son to women, my single piece of advice to Irish women who wish to avoid the horror of being raped is: don't get drunk.

I'd give the exact same advice to Irish men as well. Far more likely to get attacked if drunk, the wits just aren't about you.

I suppose we could have bars and nightclubs full of sober women but I don't know how realistic that is?

What you think?

Cavehill Red

K-9 wrote: »

I'd give the exact same advice to Irish men as well. Far more likely to get attacked if drunk, the wits just aren't about you.

I suppose we could have bars and nightclubs full of sober women but I don't know how realistic that is?

What you think?

I think this particular nation is desperately dysfunctional when it comes to alcohol. I like alcohol personally. I love a fine potstill Irish whiskey, a smokey Islay malt, a well-aged cognac, an oaky spicey Burgundy, a syrupy Sauternes or Tokay. I enjoy exploring Irish craft beers and British ales and European brews. The difference is, I think, that I'd be just as happy if none of those drinks contained alcohol because I drink them for the taste and sensory pleasure.

I'm not shovelling buckets of vodka-red bull down my neck, or swilling pints of 'fat frog' or hoovering endless scoops of piss-water lagers, all in order to get as intoxicated as I can. I'm not interested in being so drunk I soil myself, or vomit, or can't find my way home without assistance, or become embroiled in violence, or get arrested, or wake up the next day having blacked out much of the previous night. None of that remotely interests me.

So I don't understand why so many people choose to behave in that fashion, getting drunk for drunk's sake. Yet they do, and as a result, our streets flow with vomit and urine each weekend night, our young men end up assaulted (or assaulting) and our young women become so impaired that they run the risk of being raped. I'm not attributing blame here, because when people are so intoxicated, they can't really be held responsible for their actions. But if you're asking me what people can do to minimise their chances of being raped, be they female or male, my single answer to you is that they should drink less, drink responsibly or not drink at all.

LeeHoffmann

my single piece of advice to Irish women who wish to avoid the horror of being raped is: don't get drunk.

That's all well and good but if you drink, then it's extremely likely that at some point you're going to get drunk. The only way to fool-proof that is not to drink at all - I think that's too big an ask tbh.

the Rape unit at the Rotunda hospital has reported in the past that up to 80% of the women they see are impaired by alcohol

what exactly do they mean by 'impaired by alcohol' - it's a little vague. Does that mean that they were drunk or just that they had been drinking and had alcohol in their bloodstream?

when people are so intoxicated, they can't really be held responsible for their actions.

I disagree with this. If you believe that, then people shouldn't be punished for the crimes they commit when drunk.

I think this particular nation is desperately dysfunctional when it comes to alcohol.

agreed. The 'get drunk for the sake of it' mentality is baffling.

Cavehill Red

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

That's all well and good but if you drink, then it's extremely likely that at some point you're going to get drunk. The only way to fool-proof that is not to drink at all - I think that's too big an ask tbh.

Nonsense. I think I've been drunk precisely once in the past five years. Yet I drink more days than not, be it a pint after work, a glass or wine with dinner or a whiskey for a nightcap. You don't need to drink to get drunk. You can drink moderately and stop.

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

what exactly do they mean by 'impaired by alcohol' - it's a little vague. Does that mean that they were drunk or just that they had been drinking and had alcohol in their bloodstream?

It means they were drunk.

LeeHoffmann

Nonsense. I think I've been drunk precisely once in the past five years.

then you've just proved my point.

It means they were drunk.

are you assuming?

Cavehill Red

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

then you've just proved my point.

By drinking and consistently not being drunk? That's the opposite to your point.

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

are you assuming?

No.

In 70% of cases the victim reported that she had been drinking prior to the incident; 16% had consumed two drinks or less, 25% had consumed 3–5 drinks and 29% had consumed six drinks or more. In 58% of cases the victim reported that the offender had been drinking; 24% stated that the offender had consumed a moderate amount of alcohol; and a further 24% stated that the victim had been drinking a lot at the time of the assault.

The results of this study indicate that alcohol consumption, especially drinking to intoxication, is a feature in a high proportion of rapes committed in Ireland. Alcohol use also decreases the likelihood of the victim reporting the rape and increases the likelihood of blame being attributed to the victim. Research has shown that 58% of clients attending the Sexual Assault Treatment Unit in the Rotunda Hospital in 2003 had consumed more than four drinks; alcohol has also been found to be involved in approximately half of all cases of adult sexual abuse.

Source: http://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/13023/

LeeHoffmann

By drinking and consistently not being drunk? That's the opposite to your point.

read my point again:

if you drink, then it's extremely likely that at some point you're going to get drunk.

i.e. not that you will get drunk every time or often but that, if you drink, it's extremely likely you will get drunk at some point in time. You drink often and you've been drunk once in the past five years. That once = at some point in time.

alcohol consumption, especially drinking to intoxication, is a feature in a high proportion of rapes committed in Ireland. Alcohol use also decreases the likelihood of the victim reporting the rape and increases the likelihood of blame being attributed to the victim.

this is the part that's relevant - thanks for posting it. (The number of drinks consumed doesn't tell you whether a person was drunk or not - doesn't tell you how potent the drinks were, how large they were, how quickly they were consumed, or how high a tolerance level the person has). Interesting that alcohol use decreased the likelihood of reporting rape