RWC Pool C: Ireland vs USA Eagles, Sun 11 Sep 7am; Pre/During/Post Match Thread.

sting60

chancer12 wrote: »

Why was Trimble put on for Murphy? Kearney is our no 15, more messing with people's heads from Kidney. Messing Earls around has had a hugely negative effect on his performance and now Kearney is being sidelined for a mediocre Murphy.

Thought Murray was v average and really don't know why he's there, bit tired of hearing about this 'young' talent. He's only a year younger than Earls who has more than 20 caps. Reddan may not be the best scrum half in the world but he certainly upped the pace of the game when he came on. While its nice to see young players get a break the RWC isn't the place to give it to them. The Leinster side who defeated the Dragons on Friday would have done a better job than the national side today and that has to be down to the management. These players all play much better for their provinces. V disappointed

You have made very opvious points but you looked mainly at the backs our problem is Kidney, your points are very good ,but.

trackguy

Stev_o wrote: »

It doesn't matter who we put in the 12 shirt now we are f*cked their regardless. Im a fan of Wallace but he's not the person we need at 12. We will be embarrased in all our next games our gameplan is so f*cking obvious. Oh look it's one of backrows out in the 12 channel wonder what they are going to do. We desperately need a 12 to get over the gainline and we simply don't have one in this squad or at home.

This is true. Darcy will play better I'm sure, if selected again. However, he is not getting over the gainline and Wallace isn't exactly a destructive carrier.

Goes back to the management's inability to develop alternatives.

The bigger problem is the breakdown. We couldn't create quick ball against USA?! Pocock will think all his Xmas's have come at once!

MCD.

Ireland by 20-40

trackguy wrote: »

This is true. Darcy will play better I'm sure, if selected again. However, he is not getting over the gainline and Wallace isn't exactly a destructive carrier.

Well then put BOD at 12 and McFadden at 13 in the hope BOD breaks the line, if it doesnt work swap them and we re no worse off. He is one of the best to ever play the game, he can play 20 minutes or so at 12 to see if it gets us anywhere.

EDIT: again the WC isnt the place for these experiments, and i fully expect to see D'arcy at 12 next week.

sting60

Kayless wrote: »

Just seen this on RTÉ

15. Geordan Murphy - Ireland's full-back dropped some easy balls and was not involved in the best attacking play. 4

14. Tommy Bowe - Scored two tries, and had the physique and speed to give Ireland two tries. 7

13. Brian O'Driscoll - The captain missed some tackles and also dropped a few balls. Class shone through for Bowe's second try, but a poor day overall. 4

12. Gordon D'Arcy - Switch moves rarely worked in his favour as he couldn't get the footwork going in the heavy traffic, and the intercept at the end capped a poor start to his RWC 2011. 4

11. Keith Earls - Made an enterprising early break and few errors on a difficult day for wingers. Most of the good attacking came through Bowe. 5

10. Jonathan Sexton - Missed chances, couldn't get Ireland moving in the backs and did not have the range of kicking to make it a hard day for the USA's back three. 4

9. Conor Murray - Much was expected of Ireland's young scrum-half and he started well but he struggled to put shape and rhythm on the game after getting charged down. 5

1. Tom Court - Had a soft opponent but delivered lots of excellent ball through his aggressive scrummaging and part of a solid effort in the tight. 7

2. Rory Best - Hit his lineout targets all day and sneaked over for a try. Bigger challenges lie ahead but he is likely to have done enough to hold his place. 6

3. Mike Ross - Not sighted in general play but part of Ireland's most effective unit. 6

4. Donncha O'Callaghan - Busy around the field as O'Connell dominated the air. 5

5. Paul O'Connell - Imperious in the air and at the heart of Ireland's effective - if slightly underused - maul. 7

6. Stephen Ferris - Ireland's most effective forward he showed up constantly for midfield carries and dominated Clever and co in the collisions. 7

7. Shane Jennings - Not prominent around the field as Ireland struggled to secure their own ball and rarely threatened the US on the deck. 5

8. Jamie Heaslip - Good lineout support for O'Connell, but not as effective at the breakdown as he needed to be. 5

Subs:
Tony Buckley - Got stuck in to the carrying work, but Ireland's scrum became less stable when he came in. 5
Eoin Reddan - One poor pass behind his team-mates but otherwise reminded Declan Kidney that he has plenty of qualities worth having. 6
Ronan O'Gara - Put himself in the frame for a start in a week's time with an assured display. Kicked well and got the backline moving better. 7

Heaslip ,is a top player I love the guy but ,5 ?? BOD and Darcy 4 ??? again they were shocking 4 is very very generous.Sexton correct.BOD ratings when starting in last 5 games is 5.5.Now for fake tan should not be in the squad,5 is so wrong.

trackguy

MCD. wrote: »

Well then put BOD at 12 and McFadden at 13 in the hope BOD breaks the line, if it doesnt work swap them and we re no worse off. He is one of the best to ever play the game, he can play 20 minutes or so at 12 to see if it gets us anywhere.

Not a bad idea whatsoever. But you can't really try it for the first time against Australia in the WC! It's not as if this has sprung up and smacked the management in the face.

This has been an on-going issue in many positions.

handsomecake

Kayless wrote: »

Just seen this on RTÉ


13. Brian O'Driscoll - The captain missed some tackles and also dropped a few balls. Class shone through for Bowe's second try, but a poor display overall

4/10 for the worlds best centre

KELTICKNIGHTT

trackguy wrote: »

Was Sexton really 'pitiful?' I was frustrated by the few missed kicks too but I'd trust him to bounce back from that - he always has.

I didn't like the kicking options he took in attack but to be fair, the pack did not create good, quick ball in the first half.

I suspect he is more a victim of the team's failure to create quick ball.

ROG hardly amazed the masses either when he came on (for the same reasons).

The team was very poor today.

ARE YOU KIDDING,
we can afford the same against Aussies ,he had a very poor kicking game,o gara want on long enough too see what he was like,if Ireland play like they did against the USA ,we be taken apart

Cpt_Blackbeard

handsomecake wrote: »

4/10 for the worlds best centre

He is by no means the worlds best centre. In form, he could be among the top five centres but, at present he would be the 5th best centre in the NZ squad (behind Smith, Nonu, SBW and Kahui).

Too many of the supposedly big-name players just aren't stepping up - Heaslip, Sexton, D'Arcy and BOD just haven't been good enough. I'm aware that they all share one thing in common but, players clubs shouldn't be an issue when considering who isn't performing.

ShamoBuc

handsomecake wrote: »

4/10 for the worlds best centre

No he's not!! And 4/10 is correct, some would say it was generous, but it is about right!

phog

chancer12 wrote: »

Why was Trimble put on for Murphy? Kearney is our no 15, more messing with people's heads from Kidney. Messing Earls around has had a hugely negative effect on his performance and now Kearney is being sidelined for a mediocre Murphy.

Thought Murray was v average and really don't know why he's there, bit tired of hearing about this 'young' talent. He's only a year younger than Earls who has more than 20 caps. Reddan may not be the best scrum half in the world but he certainly upped the pace of the game when he came on. While its nice to see young players get a break the RWC isn't the place to give it to them. The Leinster side who defeated the Dragons on Friday would have done a better job than the national side today and that has to be down to the management. These players all play much better for their provinces. V disappointed

So you pick out the new kid on the block to say he was average, I'd love if some of the rest of the backs even played at that level today, they were worse than terrible. Normally they get off the hook because the forwards are blamed for not securing decent go forward ball, well today that ball was provided and never once used bar an early break by Earls, did any other back make a clean break? Their handling, passing and kicking options were poor.

If you get some solace from blaming Kideny, then go right ahead but I lay all the blame on the 15 that took the field and even more of the blame squarely on the backs.

chris85

Ireland by less than 20

We need a line breaker at 12. I would be a fan of possibly trying Bowe at 12 with BOD at 13. Use Trimble and McFadden/Earls on wing with Kearney.

I know we may not be able to do this against Aus but may be worth a try against Russia with a view to using in the knockouts (should we get there).

I may start going back to church to pray for our team.

phog

handsomecake wrote: »

4/10 for the worlds best centre

The rating was based on today not his career.

Quint2010

USA

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Too many of the supposedly big-name players just aren't stepping up - Heaslip, Sexton, D'Arcy and BOD just haven't been good enough. I'm aware that they all share one thing in common but, players clubs shouldn't be an issue when considering who isn't performing.

Especially when you consider they were all superb when winning the Heineken Cup for Leinster this year. Where has their form gone? Only SOB, Ross and Healy have continued their form from last years HC

RoryMc23

USA

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

He is by no means the worlds best centre. In form, he could be among the top five centres but, at present he would be the 5th best centre in the NZ squad (behind Smith, Nonu, SBW and Kahui).

Too many of the supposedly big-name players just aren't stepping up - Heaslip, Sexton, D'Arcy and BOD just haven't been good enough. I'm aware that they all share one thing in common but, players clubs shouldn't be an issue when considering who isn't performing.

Its unfortunate that our "best" players would be 4th/5th choice for NZ. Take POC for example, Thorn, Williams and Whitelock are all better (maybe even Boric too). Then Keith Earls and Bowe would be so far behind Guildford, Jane, Toeava (and Dagg and Muliani when they play wing as well)

In fact, I honestly think the only Irish player who would make NZ is Sean O'Brien.

None of the rest of the players would even be second choice other than Heaslip.

doomed

USA

bleg wrote: »

Play flannery at 7 and o brien at hooker /brentpope

If Ireland were France we would have
Ferris in second row in place of DOC
BOD at openside
SOB at inside centre

Love to try it just once

Judgement Day

Ireland by less than 20

I hate to be the one to say it, especially about BOD, but he and Darcy are living on their reputations. When was the last time that either had an outstanding game for Ireland? I could have forgotten due to watching too many games but Darcy in particular has failed to impress for a very long time now - Nonu with none of the power or skill. I fear for what awaits us against the Aussies.

phog

RoryMc23 wrote: »

Its unfortunate that our "best" players would be 4th/5th choice for NZ. Take POC for example, Thorn, Williams and Whitelock are all better (maybe even Boric too). Then Keith Earls and Bowe would be so far behind Guildford, Jane, Toeava (and Dagg and Muliani when they play wing as well)

In fact, I honestly think the only Irish player who would make NZ is Sean O'Brien

Probably not accurate, if they played in those teams instead of the Ireland their performance would be better because they'd be surronded by a real world class team and they wouldn't be kind of carrying the team like they seem to here.

Quint2010

USA

RoryMc23 wrote: »

Its unfortunate that our "best" players would be 4th/5th choice for NZ. Take POC for example, Thorn, Williams and Whitelock are all better (maybe even Boric too).

In fact, I honestly think the only Irish player who would make NZ is Sean O'Brien.

None of the rest of the players would even be second choice other than Heaslip.

I think POC would get into the NZ 15. If NZ have a weakness its their line out. Agree about SOB.

Quint2010

USA

Judgement Day wrote: »

I hate to be the one to say it, especially about BOD, but he and Darcy are living on their reputations. When was the last time that either had an outstanding game for Ireland? I could have forgotten due to watching too many games but Darcy in particular has failed to impress for a very long time now - Nonu with none of the power or skill. I fear for what awaits us against the Aussies.

BOD played pretty well in the 6N scoring 3 tries.

Cpt_Blackbeard

doomed wrote: »

If Ireland were France we would have
Ferris in second row in place of DOC
BOD at openside
SOB at inside centre

Love to try it just once

As much as I disagree with all of those statements the bolded one will never happen. Not only has Ferris said that the calls for him to play lock are ludicrous but, he has no cartilage in one of his and knees. Therefore, being relied upon in lineouts/regaining dropoffs would be detrimental to both his health and career.

shuffol

Ireland by less than 20

I hope we select ROG against Australia and go back to kicking for field position, the only time in the past 5 games Ireland have played with any purpose and semblence of a game plan was in the 2nd half away to France, the players are playing like they've no idea what we're trying to achieve at the minute.

Quint2010

USA

shuffol wrote: »

I hope we select ROG against Australia and go back to kicking for field position, the only time in the past 5 games Ireland have played with any purpose and semblence of a game plan was in the 2nd half away to France, the players are playing like they've no idea what we're trying to achieve at the minute.

You know before todays match I would have said Ireland's no1 10 is Sexton. But he just cant be relied upon to kick penalties anymore. ROG can.

ShamoBuc

shuffol wrote: »

I hope we select ROG against Australia and go back to kicking for field position, the only time in the past 5 games Ireland have played with any purpose and semblence of a game plan was in the 2nd half away to France, the players are playing like they've no idea what we're trying to achieve at the minute.

I actually hope we start with the same 15. Whoever doesn't perform Again, can sit on the bench for a few games.

Quint2010

USA

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I actually hope we start with the same 15. Whoever doesn't perform Again, can sit on the bench for a few games.

No. SOB, Healy and Kearney will come back in-Reddan will probably start along with ROG. I would drop D'Arcy and bring in McFadden

Fireball07

Ireland by less than 20

Iron Hide wrote: »

Only positive to draw from that match really is the lineout I reckon, our scrum was made to look ten times more powerful than it actually was by a poor US frontrow.

Ferris had quite a good showing for a guy who's only played a handful of games this season, Jennings had a decent match performed well enough to keep his spot against Oz. Heaslip out O'Brien in at no.8.

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I actually hope we start with the same 15. Whoever doesn't perform Again, can sit on the bench for a few games.

There's no way O'Brien can't start if he's fit. He's our best ball-carrier by a mile. I think we'll actually miss Wallace but hopefully both Ferris and O'Brien will play.

And I think Healy and Kearney should definitely come in.

And possibly Trimble, Reddan, ROG and maybe McFadden too. I think D'Arcy is almost certain to start again though...I don't know if Kidney will start McFadden there.

KELTICKNIGHTT

just watching highlights on itv where they where talking about irelands ageing team

phog

Quint2010 wrote: »

BOD played pretty well in the 6N scoring 3 tries.

Tommy scored two tries today and I wouldnt say he played well today.

Podge_irl

Ireland by less than 20

Quint2010 wrote: »

You know before todays match I would have said Ireland's no1 10 is Sexton. But he just cant be relied upon to kick penalties anymore. ROG can.

Sexton kicked reasonably well in the 6N didn't he?

ROG wasn't really on long enough today to judge him properly, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him start against Aus. Sexton can't really have any complaints.

The problems in the team ran far deeper then that though.

shuffol

Ireland by less than 20

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

just watching highlights on itv where they where talking about irelands ageing team

Apparently our squad has the oldest average age at the World cup, I think its 29.

phog

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

just watching highlights on itv where they where talking about irelands ageing team

Avg age of starting 15 and the subs that took the field is 29.7, youngest being Murray and the oldest being ROG.