RWC Pool C: Ireland vs USA Eagles, Sun 11 Sep 7am; Pre/During/Post Match Thread.

Stev_o

Ireland by less than 20

On another note id love to see Clever play for one of the top European sides one of my all time favourite players. His workload and committed is fantastic to see.

Wollwead

Darcy has been awful, really has, he should be dropped but won't be. Really poor team, i hope i'm wrong but i think we're gonna be lucky to escape this group nevermind aus we'll be doing well beat italy. It's all very frustrating, team of bottlers that perform excellently at the business end of the provincial season but can't transfer it at international level. It's depressing.

Aidric

Wollwead wrote: »

Darcy has been awful, really has, he should be dropped but won't be.

He shouldn't even have been on the plane to NZ. The guy is a spent force and utterly predictable.

.ak

Not quite a RoG vs Sexton point here... Because in my eyes, they're both world class fly halves.. But you do need to look at Sexton's ability with ball in hand. He opened the game up in parts, and Bowe's first try was down to Sexton. Sexton's ability to command the backline is great, and if the others were firing on like Sexton was today we'd be looking at cricket scores.

The issue I have is not with the fly half. Like I said, both are world class, and both have their skills, the real issue is what scrumhalf starts with them.

If you look at Ireland's last 9 games, we have only won one convincingly. A certain game against England last march. Is it a coincidence that the starting FH/SH combo was Sexton and Reddan? Not at all. This is the pivot of any good team, the relationship between 9 and 10. It's literally the elbow of the arm - the forwards are given ball and muscle their way through the opposition (which was done today in textbook example), then the elbow guides the backs to strike with the hand. A simple way of looking at it, but at it's core rugby is a simple game.

Kidney has denied this arm any movement with mixing up the 9/10 pairing. Reddan, Murray, Boss, ROG, and Sexton are all top world class players... but pair them wrongly and you'll suffer for it. There's a reason why the backline is so effective for Leinster. When Reddan and Sexton communicate together they play quick, fast rugby that opens up sides.

For me, Sexton and Reddan NEED to start against Australia. If ROG starts, I don't mind that either, but he'll need to start with Murray... which I dont see happening. If ROG and Reddan start (which I think Kidney will pick), the Aussies will have a field day in the midfield, and our ruck will be a place of horror.

Also I think astonaidan's ratings on Heaslip were a tad unfair. He had a good game, carried ball well, and was constantly in the face of the opposition. What do you think a no.8's job is exactly? All-star NFL style runs from 80meters? Sure Heaslip pulls off that kind of thing, and has done in the past, but he's now more of a leadership figure in a pretty impressive backrow - he also is the most cunning player in the dark arts of slowing ball. Watch the game again, and you'll see some surprising plays from Heaslip that tips the balance in our favour.

handsomecake

Aidric wrote: »

He shouldn't even have been on the plane to NZ. The guy is a spent force and utterly predictable.

in ireland you have to retire to relinquish your jersey. ireland doesnt do "dropping " people.sure we are all mates and he would have to look dorce in the eye the next day.and he couldnt handle that.

but sure he and bod are the best 12 and 13 in the world, some would have you believe

MCD.

Ireland by 20-40

My memories of the game are a little hazy owing in part to the early start, this is however probably a good thing.

Darce and BOD (with the exception of his work for Bowes try) were largely anonymous, and in fact BOD's tackling seemed a bit weak at times. Darce will be lucky to start against the Aussies after that performance, at this stage his past glories are well behind him and gambling on him finding the form he once had is negligent in the extreme, the argument that his relationship with BOD is key is also invalid, BOD can play well regardless. McFadden has to come in.

Despite Sexton having a bit of a nightmare at times, I still think he should start against the Aussies. He is capable of getting the backs moving and his own running game is superior to ROG's. I'm a huge ROG fan but the kicking game and up the jumper rugby (which we should have done today) wont work against the Aussies.

astonaidan

USA

Stev_o wrote: »

On another note id love to see Clever play for one of the top European sides one of my all time favourite players. His workload and committed is fantastic to see.

I feel what Your saying lets get a collection to bring him to 2010/2011 Rabo-Direct champions, Heiniken Cup Champions- Connaught

ambid

Ireland by less than 20

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Bowe is lucky he got that try, because he was bloody awful before that.

ambid wrote: »

Quite right. Irrelevant things like beating three players to score a try are just luck and shouldn't be considered when evaluating players. :rolleyes:

wixfjord wrote: »

That's an incredibly stupid comment!

Ah come on wixfjord, you're one of the most consistent and articulate posters on here. You're better than just ridiculing another's opinion.

My point was Bowe got a lot of unfair criticism on here. He made a few mistakes, but he is clearly rusty. He's a class act and proved that with his try, which was nothing to do with luck.

My opinion is that it was foolish of posters to criticise him so early. That's my opinion, and I stand over it.

thomond2006

Ireland by less than 20

D'Arcy was really poor, McFadden is the best option but won't happen in a million years.

Same old story I think, only Australia putting 50 on us will change anything. Depressing thought.

Quint2010

USA

thomond2006 wrote: »

D'Arcy was really poor, McFadden is the best option but won't happen in a million years.

Same old story I think, only Australia putting 50 on us will change anything. Depressing thought.

Miserable as we were today I expect us to come out next week and give a performance. We wont win but we may hold them to a 10 point margin

MCD.

Ireland by 20-40

Surely Darce's poor run of form cant be ignored now???

McFadden has proved himself more than capable at this level.

Hippo

Ireland by less than 20

An unsurprising shambles given the form line of the team. Systemic failure, coaches, players, the lot. Depressing.

thomond2006

Ireland by less than 20

Quint2010 wrote: »

Miserable as we were today I expect us to come out next week and give a performance. We wont win but we may hold them to a 10 point margin

That's the frustrating thing though isn't it. We laugh at France for being inconsistent but we are just as bad. And at least France actually play well sometimes.

On the podcast I did (posted here somewhere), I well overestimated Ireland. Blind confidence. Eventually I'm gonna have stop believing that the "next game" is when we're gonna click.

Cypher_sounds

Ireland by less than 20

ambid wrote: »

Ah come on wixfjord, you're one of the most consistent and articulate posters on here. You're better than just ridiculing another's opinion.

My point was Bowe got a lot of unfair criticism on here. He made a few mistakes, but he is clearly rusty. He's a class act and proved that with his try, which was nothing to do with luck.

My opinion is that it was foolish of posters to criticise him so early. That's my opinion, and I stand over it.

I said he was lucky he got that try at that time or else he might have been in for a right earful or possibly even taken off because he was awful pretty much the whole of the first half. The criticism i gave him is nothing to do with how good a player i know he is. Calling me foolish for calling it how i saw it? i dont know how you think i criticized him unfairly, he was very very poor up to the point he got the try and I feared he might have been taken off. I criticized him early? no, this was nearly halfway thorough the match.

Maybe you thought I ment that he scored a lucky try, otherwise i found your comment a bit smart.

GerM

Hippo wrote: »

An unsurprising shambles given the form line of the team. Systemic failure, coaches, players, the lot. Depressing.

Pretty much. People can't honestly say they're hugely surprised with this morning's game. If so, then it's a case of refusing to see the reality before them and being blinded by loyalty. The team look disjointed and clueless no matter who has been on the team sheet. There is no single person to blame. The team are just that, a team.

DK can trot out all his glib little comments all he likes. The fact is we turned in an opening performance to mirror that of the Namibian game 4 years ago. The coaching decisions have been bizarre in terms of selections and match day tactics. DK is desperate for players to find form so much so that he's playing them to the detriment of those who were actually in form in the warm up games. The likes of Trimble and ROG had better warm up campaigns than Earls and Sexton. Wallace was better than D'Arcy. Look at ourselves and Wales and how our respective selection processes have resulted. Wales have had some monumental screw ups over the past few years but they've also won big because Gatland has had the balls to reward form regardless of age. Warburton, North, Lydiate etc. have all been revelations. In Ireland we ignore these players until we have no choice and, come times like this, we reap what we sow.

Depressingly, winning against Italy right now will be a success from where we are right now. That's not an exaggeration. The areas where we had superiority today are the areas that Italy will be hoping to take us on.

Cypher_sounds

Ireland by less than 20

I'm worried at how much ball the Americans won at the break down, turning over possession because we didn't have anyone at the ruck to secure the ball at times, its worrying that they were able to do that a few times.

LuckyLloyd

We got their best game. The physical commitment from the USA was unbelievable. The hits inflicted upon our ball carriers time and time again made a huge difference. Job done.

O' Gara should start against Australia. And I pray Kearney is ready.

Conas

Ireland by less than 20

Kidney just doesn't have faith in certain players, and they are mainly Leinster players.

Isaac Boss: Never gets a look in, and I'd rate him as being the best scrum half in the Irish squad at the moment.
Leo Cullen: Doesn't have any faith is this man either. I personally think himself and POC would be a better combo than POC and DOC.
Shane Jennings: Was told he wasn't going to the world cup. If this is true then that's disgraceful management from Kidney.
Fergus McFadden: Doesn't seem to like McFadden and he's a better player than P Wallace, and D'Arcy. Would give Drico a run for his money.

Were it not for injuries two other Leinster players wouldn't have been given a chance. SOB and Mike Ross.

I just don't think Kidney has faith in the Leinster players at all, and I wouldn't mind but Kidney should be looking to play in Leinster's style. Which is modern and not old fashioned.

LuckyLloyd

Conas wrote: »

Kidney just doesn't have faith in certain players, and they are mainly Leinster players.

Isaac Boss: Never gets a look in, and I'd rate him as being the best scrum half in the Irish squad at the moment.
Leo Cullen: Doesn't have any faith is this man either. I personally think himself and POC would be a better combo than POC and DOC.
Shane Jennings: Was told he wasn't going to the world cup. If this is true then that's disgraceful management from Kidney.
Fergus McFadden: Doesn't seem to like McFadden and he's a better player than P Wallace, and D'Arcy. Would give Drico a run for his money.

Were it not for injuries two other Leinster players wouldn't have been given a chance. SOB and Mike Ross.

I just don't think Kidney has faith in the Leinster players at all, and I wouldn't mind but Kidney should be looking to play in Leinster's style. Which is modern and not old fashioned.

:rolleyes:

Heaslip, D'Arcy and Reddan are Leinster players and he sticks with them through thick and thin. He has his blind spots, but they have nothing to do with provincial allegiance.

Conas

Ireland by less than 20

Now he's doesn't always stick with Reddan in all fairness, and to be honest he's afraid of Heaslip, incase he might make a bad tweet about him or something. He wasn't happy when he was dropped in 2009, he made it known. Wasn't happy with McFadden being dropped this year, made it known. He wouldn't be afraid to call out Kidney if he wasn't happy. So that's why he doesn't get dropped.

RoryMc23

USA

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Heaslip, D'Arcy and Reddan are Leinster players and he sticks with them through thick and thin. He has his blind spots, but they have nothing to do with provincial allegiance.

Hes dropped both Reddan and Heaslip before. Reddan wasn't even first choice before O'Leary's shocker. I am also positive D'arcy has missed out to Paddy Wallace before as well. Now compare that to when DOC and POC for example were coming back from injury and both started straight away

ShamoBuc

Just finished watching the game on tg4 and catching up with the thread, what a piss poor performance - from the team. Sexton's kicking ( not the ball ) was fairly poor, some of those pens were in the relatively easy category. We seemed incapable of protecting the ball. We were clueless at times while the amaters did very well, the professionals were nothing short of abysmal. So many negatives, not too many positives. I guess we won but it certainly feels like a defeat. Compare this result with the rest of the results USa get in this tournament and I think it will feel even worse.

ambid

Ireland by less than 20

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

I said he was lucky he got that try at that time or else he might have been in for a right earful or possibly even taken off because he was awful pretty much the whole of the first half. The criticism i gave him is nothing to do with how good a player i know he is. Calling me foolish for calling it how i saw it? i dont know how you think i criticized him unfairly, he was very very poor up to the point he got the try and I feared he might have been taken off. I criticized him early? no, this was nearly halfway thorough the match.

Maybe you thought I ment that he scored a lucky try, otherwise i found your comment a bit smart.

Okay I can see how you might have found my post disrespectful. I disagree with your opinion, but didn't want to be disrespectful.

phog

Conas wrote: »

Now he's doesn't always stick with Reddan in all fairness, and to be honest he's afraid of Heaslip, incase he might make a bad tweet about him or something. He wasn't happy when he was dropped in 2009, he made it known. Wasn't happy with McFadden being dropped this year, made it known. He wouldn't be afraid to call out Kidney if he wasn't happy. So that's why he doesn't get dropped.

Do you really believe that? :eek:

JohnMc1

USA

cjgib wrote: »

this extract from the guardian sums it up


"Then, with Ireland running a play out the back aimed at the replacement Andrew Trimble, Paul Emerick picked off Gordon D'Arcy's pass and sprinted 60 metres to score and salute the crowd. The Eagles reacted as if they had won. In a way they did."

People forget that that the USA team are essentially Amateurs. They don't get the support like the rest of the major Rugby Countries get. So a little overboard celebration is expected. Its like an Amateur Boxer scoring a knockdown on a Pro.

DDC1990

USA

Conas wrote: »

Kidney just doesn't have faith in certain players, and they are mainly Leinster players.

Isaac Boss: Never gets a look in, and I'd rate him as being the best scrum half in the Irish squad at the moment.
Leo Cullen: Doesn't have any faith is this man either. I personally think himself and POC would be a better combo than POC and DOC.
Shane Jennings: Was told he wasn't going to the world cup. If this is true then that's disgraceful management from Kidney.
Fergus McFadden: Doesn't seem to like McFadden and he's a better player than P Wallace, and D'Arcy. Would give Drico a run for his money.

Were it not for injuries two other Leinster players wouldn't have been given a chance. SOB and Mike Ross.

I just don't think Kidney has faith in the Leinster players at all, and I wouldn't mind but Kidney should be looking to play in Leinster's style. Which is modern and not old fashioned.

:rolleyes:

Mike Ross... got his chance while playing for Harliquins.
Jennings was ignored for Ireland long before Kidney came in and Long before he played for Leinster.
Maybe its something to do with the fact that he is dominated in almost every international he plays in... Like today.

Issac Boss played for Ireland while an ULSTER player. He was dropped as an ULSTER player! Your own provincial bias is clouding your judgement.

Claiming Kidney is Anti-Munster is like claiming he's Pro-Sale because he Picked Tony Buckley.

Just take a step back and you'll see those players mentioned are not good enough on the big stage.

RuggieBear

can we please try to not turn this into a complete and total leinster/munster ****efest.

Sanity_Saviour

Ireland by less than 20

Kidney really has ruined what was once a world class team and transformed it into a ragtag bunch of underachievers. By starting with a XV with half the team having no chance of starting he has eliminated any continuity and essentially consigned the nation to reliving the utter disaster of '07.

Individually D'arcy offers literally nothing to attacking impetus, Buckley is naught short of a joke at this level, Murray cannot be picked simply on potential, Geordan has been past it for about 6 years now and Jennings is there purely on sentimentality. If we want to beat Italy Kidney must stop holding on to 2009 and let form pick the team i.e get Bowe in at centre? give McFadden a real go? or even try Sexton at 12 so ROG can concentrate on what he does best

In short Mr Declan "but we won a Grand Slam" Kidney should just stop what he's doing.ray cannot be picked simply on potential, Geordan has been past it for about 6 years now and Jennings is there purely on sentimentality. If we want to beat Italy Kidney must stop holding on to 2009 and let form pick the team i.e get Bowe in at centre? give McFadden a real go? or even try Sexton at 12 so ROG can concentrate on what he does best

In short Mr Declan "but we won a Grand Slam" Kidney should just stop what he's doing.

Stev_o

Ireland by less than 20

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

Kidney really has ruined what was once a world class team and transformed it into a ragtag bunch of underachievers. By starting with a XV with half the team having no chance of starting he has eliminated any continuity and essentially consigned the nation to reliving the utter disaster of '07.

Individually D'arcy offers literally nothing to attacking impetus, Buckley is naught short of a joke at this level, Murray cannot be picked simply on potential, Geordan has been past it for about 6 years now and Jennings is there purely on sentimentality. If we want to beat Italy Kidney must stop holding on to 2009 and let form pick the team i.e get Bowe in at centre? give McFadden a real go? or even try Sexton at 12 so ROG can concentrate on what he does best

In short Mr Declan "but we won a Grand Slam" Kidney should just stop what he's doing.ray cannot be picked simply on potential, Geordan has been past it for about 6 years now and Jennings is there purely on sentimentality. If we want to beat Italy Kidney must stop holding on to 2009 and let form pick the team i.e get Bowe in at centre? give McFadden a real go? or even try Sexton at 12 so ROG can concentrate on what he does best

In short Mr Declan "but we won a Grand Slam" Kidney should just stop what he's doing.

This side was never EVER world class nor was one the one before it.

Dr.Evil

Can we be optimistic and say that we have our first game done, and we got a needed win? I know it's not as emphatic as it should of been and the performance wasn't there, but at least a win will give them something. A bit of belief goes a long way, and that's a feeling you only got from scoring more points than the other team. Hopefully the win settles their heads, we can condemn the whole team and squad already, or we can just have a bit of hope and try be optimistic for a change.