Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Mountainlad

Anyone know what the story is with the football? Both games on after 7, and under lights. Is this because the County Final will be under lights or something? Can't see any other reason for it, because 7.00 on a Sunday is not a good time for a game in my opinion.

By the way, Stradbally defeated the Nire tonight on a scoreline of 0-11 to 0-9 I think. Might have been 0-10 to 0-8 but there was definetly two points in it.

Deise_Davy

For all you people out there, who are shouting the Michael Ryan name from the rooftops. Did any of you ever wonder why he only stayed with De La Salle for one year?

Fact is, the players did not want him for another year and actually tried to get rid of him half-way through the year last year. So you can look at his acheivements with DLS any way you want. The truth is that it is Derek McGrath who did a lot of the training and Ray Murphy that deserve the most credit for DLS winning the Munster club last year.

hardybuck

Deise_Davy wrote: »

For all you people out there, who are shouting the Michael Ryan name from the rooftops. Did any of you ever wonder why he only stayed with De La Salle for one year?

Fact is, the players did not want him for another year and actually tried to get rid of him half-way through the year last year. So you can look at his acheivements with DLS any way you want. The truth is that it is Derek McGrath who did a lot of the training and Ray Murphy that deserve the most credit for DLS winning the Munster club last year.

Not trying to have a cut off you, but how would you explain DLS's drop in performance this year? If anything the team should have been improving with a lot of youth in their ranks. A lot of the attractive style which they displayed last year didn't seem to feature in 2011?

mullane13

hardybuck wrote: »

Well it won't help that he dropped one of the selection committee's son's who was previously untouchable as a regular starter for DLS, and rarely if ever gave him a run even. The said chap has since transferred club and county to Wicklow where he now works.

Agree with Mountainlad here - if we're talking with two people of similar ability I reckon we've got to start being loyal to our own. We're one of the few counties who even consider outsiders - which isn't necessarily a good or bad thing, but unless it is someone very good we shouldn't be looking outside.

Michael rightly dropped said chap, because said chap has been about 4 stone overweight for years now. Don't get me wrong, he's a nice fella and he wasn't a bad hurler a few years ago but in fairness Michael was the only fella with the balls to drop him.

hardybuck

mullane13 wrote: »

Michael rightly dropped said chap, because said chap has been about 4 stone overweight for years now. Don't get me wrong, he's a nice fella and he wasn't a bad hurler a few years ago but in fairness Michael was the only fella with the balls to drop him.

Agree with every words of that, when he started it was like playing with 14 players - he was incapable of winning any type of ball.

Regardless I was just highlighting a problem which might face Ryan at the selection stage.

mullane13

hardybuck wrote: »

Agree with every words of that, when he started it was like playing with 14 players - he was incapable of winning any type of ball.

Regardless I was just highlighting a problem which might face Ryan at the selection stage.

Yeah it was a shame to be honest because in fairness I felt he was good a few years back but just wasn't up to it anymore. Even in 2008/09 when DLS reached the All Ireland he wasn't up to scratch, he was better when he was younger.

I would like to see Michael in charge of the county if I'm being honest, the hurling DLS played under him last year was brilliant.....There's obviously a few small minded people on this forum with personal problems with Michael. Get him in, give him a 2 year deal and fúck the begrudgers.

deisebhoy17

Mountainlad wrote: »

How highly do you rate the Christy Ring?

I am not for a moment suggesting that Meyler deserves the job becuase he won a Christy Ring, besides all you can do is win the competition anyway as he has done and its neither his fault or Kevin Ryan & Carlows that the standard isn't very high.

Nor do I have any personal grievance with scully' ryan (as hes well known by up around there you of all people should know that ).

My big argument is that he dosent come from a genuine hurling background and it shows in his teams on the field by the style of play that he adapts. DLS last year operated with a 2 man full forward line with a third midfielder/half back acting as a sweeper and while it got them so far at that level you will be found out in the raw heat of the Munster Championship. Im not denying that DLS played with a savage hunger intensity and appeared to work very hard under him but I do not think this is the way forward for us. I find it hypocritical that some of the very people who have constantly bemoaned the style and tactics of Davy Fitz over the past 3 years on this board are now calling for a manager who takes a very similar approach. With a lot of young players coming through with potential and ability that needs to be nurtured at a crucial stage of their careers I fear that the cautious/win at all costs mentality will take precedence over the development of these players skills and first touch.

A guy like Meyler who has a huge pedigree at club level in Cork but has a great hurling brain aswell. He brought a poor Wexford side to an AI semi final in 07 and were robbed against ourslelves in the quarters in Thurles the following year. Remember Damien Fitzhenry drove a penalty over the bar in the last minute a goal would have won it for them. His work and commitment to Kerry at senior and U21B level this year shows his genuine passion for the game and he dosent just go for jobs that are high profile. Hes hurling to the core and thats it and if we dont snap him up its a matter of time before another big name comes in for him anyway.

I also think its insulting to Kevin Ryan that he hasnt even been considered. A real hurling man who like Meyler has played at the top level with club and county and has a good record of management with Mount Sion, Oulart thge Ballagh and Carlow. These are more like the men we need to bring hurling forward in the county.
[/QUOTE]

Mountainlad

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

I am not for a moment suggesting that Meyler deserves the job becuase he won a Christy Ring, besides all you can do is win the competition anyway as he has done and its neither his fault or Kevin Ryan & Carlows that the standard isn't very high.

Nor do I have any personal grievance with scully' ryan (as hes well known by up around there you of all people should know that ).

My big argument is that he dosent come from a genuine hurling background and it shows in his teams on the field by the style of play that he adapts. DLS last year operated with a 2 man full forward line with a third midfielder/half back acting as a sweeper and while it got them so far at that level you will be found out in the raw heat of the Munster Championship. Im not denying that DLS played with a savage hunger intensity and appeared to work very hard under him but I do not think this is the way forward for us. I find it hypocritical that some of the very people who have constantly bemoaned the style and tactics of Davy Fitz over the past 3 years on this board are now calling for a manager who takes a very similar approach. With a lot of young players coming through with potential and ability that needs to be nurtured at a crucial stage of their careers I fear that the cautious/win at all costs mentality will take precedence over the development of these players skills and first touch.

A guy like Meyler who has a huge pedigree at club level in Cork but has a great hurling brain aswell. He brought a poor Wexford side to an AI semi final in 07 and were robbed against ourslelves in the quarters in Thurles the following year. Remember Damien Fitzhenry drove a penalty over the bar in the last minute a goal would have won it for them. His work and commitment to Kerry at senior and U21B level this year shows his genuine passion for the game and he dosent just go for jobs that are high profile. Hes hurling to the core and thats it and if we dont snap him up its a matter of time before another big name comes in for him anyway.

I also think its insulting to Kevin Ryan that he hasnt even been considered. A real hurling man who like Meyler has played at the top level with club and county and has a good record of management with Mount Sion, Oulart thge Ballagh and Carlow. These are more like the men we need to bring hurling forward in the county.

I accept the first part, but all he has over Micheal Ryan is inter-county experience.

As for Wexford, I stand by saying they were only alright. Tipp played 7 weeks in a row in 2007, they weren't that good anyway (Babs dropped Cummins and Kelly). Wexford eventually stumbled over them with a late goal, and fortuitous enough that the free was moved in in the first place. This is despite numerous goal chances early on that they couldn't take. And twice hammered by Kilkenny that year.

How were they robbed might I ask? Fitzhenry missed the penalty, don't see how that makes them robbed. And then when you take into account that there second goal was a square ball, and that the thrid came from Clinton Hennesssey getting annoyed at that and pucking the ball out over the sideline from the resulting puckout, you'd have to say we would actually have been unlucky to lose. In his first year in charge they played Kilkenny three teams (league and championship) losing on an aggregate score of 40 points. The following year they were relegated from the league. It took a replay to beat an average Dublin side, who the previous year had been beaten by Westmeath, and then they were beaten by 19 points by Kilkenny. So as I said, alright at best.

I'd be more open to Kevin Ryan, don't really know what the story is with him and why he hasn't been more openly mentioned. At the same time, I think maybe we could take his achievements with Carlow into perspective. The year before Carlow were promoted under his stewardship, they also won the Christy Ring but lost out in a promotion/relegation playoff to Laois, in very unfair circumstances as it was their 5th week in a row playing a competitive match. I'm certain that night on The Sunday Game that I saw Jim Greene being interviewed as manager of Carlow. So, that to me takes away from his achievements a little bit.

I understand your concerns about the two man full forward line, indeed in a previous post I also mentioned it as a reason I might be reluctant to have him in charge. However, while I'd prefer a conventional three man full forward line, it was the way it was implemented by Fitzgerald was my problem. This year he even tried a one ma full forward line against Kilkenny with Shane Walsh. Madness.

There isn't really substantial evidence to support the claims that he'd focus more on winning at all cost then bringing on youth. To be honest, at this stage I think he'd have to focus on youth if he wanted to win, it's not a case of choosing one while sacrificing the other.

The blue blaa

Deise_Davy wrote: »

For all you people out there, who are shouting the Michael Ryan name from the rooftops. Did any of you ever wonder why he only stayed with De La Salle for one year?

Fact is, the players did not want him for another year and actually tried to get rid of him half-way through the year last year. So you can look at his acheivements with DLS any way you want. The truth is that it is Derek McGrath who did a lot of the training and Ray Murphy that deserve the most credit for DLS winning the Munster club last year.

That is complete nonsense,
The players didnt try get rid of him if twas up to them he'd still be there,
Derek McGrath didnt take any training sessions,
Ray Murphy did take some of the training he was a selector so credit to him,but in fairness now if your going to be mouthing off about Michael Ryan and De La Salle try get the story someway right..

Et Cetera

Deise_Davy wrote: »

For all you people out there, who are shouting the Michael Ryan name from the rooftops. Did any of you ever wonder why he only stayed with De La Salle for one year?

Fact is, the players did not want him for another year and actually tried to get rid of him half-way through the year last year. So you can look at his acheivements with DLS any way you want. The truth is that it is Derek McGrath who did a lot of the training and Ray Murphy that deserve the most credit for DLS winning the Munster club last year.

There's no point, the people in this thread aren't open to anything. Everyone has their own malformed opinions and won't even consider any other view than their own.

Mountainlad

Et Cetera wrote: »

There's no point, the people in this thread aren't open to anything. Everyone has their own malformed opinions and won't even consider any other view than their own.

Bad form...

Et Cetera

Mountainlad wrote: »

Bad form...

It's true. There are no debates. There is everyone thinking they are always right trying to shout the loudest.

edit;
90% of the time. There are the odd few people open to general debate, but that's it. Majority spoil everything

Mountainlad

Et Cetera wrote: »

It's true. There are no debates. There is everyone thinking they are always right trying to shout the loudest.

edit;
90% of the time. There are the odd few people open to general debate, but that's it. Majority spoil everything

I don't really get you. Most of the comments seem to be a reaction to what is said, people engaging their own views with other people as an attempt to shed light on a certain subject. As that not what a debate is?

deisedude

Et Cetera wrote: »

It's true. There are no debates. There is everyone thinking they are always right trying to shout the loudest.

edit;
90% of the time. There are the odd few people open to general debate, but that's it. Majority spoil everything

He isn't even talking hurling, just spouting hearsay. I'm all for debating hurling but not rumours

updownup

The blue blaa wrote: »

That is complete nonsense,
The players didnt try get rid of him if twas up to them he'd still be there,
Derek McGrath didnt take any training sessions,
Ray Murphy did take some of the training he was a selector so credit to him,but in fairness now if your going to be mouthing off about Michael Ryan and De La Salle try get the story someway right..

fully agreed on that post blue bla , ryan did a great job last year with de la salle , full of free flowing hurling and excellent to watch .dont feel he gets the credit he deserves on this thread , he is one of our own , we have had outside managers last 10+ years ,think its time we look within the county, kilkenny can do it , cork in the past had sucess dublin this year . (big ball)
as for dls people trying to get rid of him , doubt that is true , he produced a team that won glory in county , munster an were prob very unlucky to not win an all ire club title.

people hear say is just not accurate , derek mcgrath done nothing with de la salle last year as far as i know .. was selector on u21 waterford team , which i feel was lost on the line that night , but that another story .

Mountainlad

updownup wrote: »

fully agreed on that post blue bla , ryan did a great job last year with de la salle , full of free flowing hurling and excellent to watch .dont feel he gets the credit he deserves on this thread , he is one of our own , we have had outside managers last 10+ years ,think its time we look within the county, kilkenny can do it , cork in the past had sucess dublin this year . (big ball)
as for dls people trying to get rid of him , doubt that is true , he produced a team that won glory in county , munster an were prob very unlucky to not win an all ire club title.

people hear say is just not accurate , derek mcgrath done nothing with de la salle last year as far as i know .. was selector on u21 waterford team , which i feel was lost on the line that night , but that another story .

It is, in fact, 17 years since Mansfield was in charge I believe.

I'd agree, if we can we should look to our own, and I really don't think anyone could say Meyler is far superior to Ryan (in fact in my own view it might be stretching it to say superior at all).

Also, heard that Kevin Ryan and Michael Ryan are front runners for the job. But I think this only reinforces that nobody is really sure who is in pole position.

updownup

from what i heard ryan has some very good skills needed to bring on a waterford team , he is an excellent motivator , man mangement skills are very good , his coaching might leave him down , but with a strong backroom team behind him ,i think he could be the real deal .

i dont think davy ticked all the boxes when it came to nurture young players , encouraging them , look at young o hallorahan , jack keneady, connors from passage , stephen daniels . the list goes on . ive went to few waterford traing sessions an davy was an excellent coach , great drills , but he would treat ya like a piece of s..it.
in this modern world guys making huge sacrifices to get to training dont need to be listening to that .
michael ryan is a mans man , respectful ,honest an def would get the best out of the players .#liam sheedys i felt ticked all the boxes , was very straight ,also very respectful to his players . ryan could be like this and you could be garunteed all the team would row in under him .
i also think hes a very lucky manager , look at that the way u want but his records say it all, ( an jesus we all need bit luck )

blue note

updownup wrote: »

i dont think davy ticked all the boxes when it came to nurture young players , encouraging them , look at young o hallorahan , jack keneady, connors from passage , stephen daniels . the list goes on . ive went to few waterford traing sessions an davy was an excellent coach , great drills , but he would treat ya like a piece of s..it.

Jack Kennedy? Firstly, didn't he join the panel in about 2004 and secondly didn't he leave because he was fed up with things in 2010?

I couldn't blame him for it either, he always seemed to be the first off the pitch when things weren't going well, usually with lads playing worse around him.

Mountainlad

blue note wrote: »

Jack Kennedy? Firstly, didn't he join the panel in about 2004 and secondly didn't he leave because he was fed up with things in 2010?

I couldn't blame him for it either, he always seemed to be the first off the pitch when things weren't going well, usually with lads playing worse around him.

An immensely dedicated trainer as well. Had a massive impact in 2008 when he came off the bench against Tipp.

The blue blaa

Mountainlad wrote: »

An immensely dedicated trainer as well. Had a massive impact in 2008 when he came off the bench against Tipp.

Jack was and still is a good player,I think he was always harshly treated by Fitzy he was the fall guy whenever things were goin wrong he was whpped off first,i cant remember the last game he played think it was munster championship game but i'm nearly sure he left the ground at half time in frustration at being taken off yet again,i'm sure it was something along those lines anyway, he's still only 30 so he could still offer some depth into the panel

Mountainlad

The blue blaa wrote: »

Jack was and still is a good player,I think he was always harshly treated by Fitzy he was the fall guy whenever things were goin wrong he was whpped off first,i cant remember the last game he played think it was munster championship game but i'm nearly sure he left the ground at half time in frustration at being taken off yet again,i'm sure it was something along those lines anyway, he's still only 30 so he could still offer some depth into the panel

Ships probably sailed to be honest!

hardybuck

Lads - not sure how much of this is an accurate reflection of the County Board's financial affairs or media spin in advance of the hurling manager appointment, but things don't look great!

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=156399

Playing the football semi's under lights recently must have cost a few bob, and strikes me as a waste.

Et Cetera

hardybuck wrote: »

Playing the football semi's under lights recently must have cost a few bob, and strikes me as a waste.

You're a fcuking idiot. How much would this have cost - 50 euro a match?

How about all of Davy's analysts and background team? Why the hell would they put up floodlights and _not_ use them!

hardybuck

Et Cetera wrote: »

You're a fcuking idiot. How much would this have cost - 50 euro a match?

How about all of Davy's analysts and background team? Why the hell would they put up floodlights and _not_ use them!

Cheerio.

Before you go - I reckon you'd pay for a set of jerseys with the money wasted. Or meals after training for a couple of weeks.

Floodlights should be used to clear fixture congestion, not for the sake of using them. In National League they would be a Saturday night money spinner also.

For the record I agree that Fitzgerald's costs are likely to be massive (I've never seen figures), but as it has happened already there is no point wasting any more energy on it. Its about controlling what can be controlled at this point.

Et Cetera

hardybuck wrote: »

Cheerio.

Before you go - I reckon you'd pay for a set of jerseys with the money wasted. Or meals after training for a couple of weeks.

Floodlights should be used to clear fixture congestion, not for the sake of using them. In National League they would be a Saturday night money spinner also.

And what about the larger crowd at the Sat night football games?

Et Cetera

hardybuck wrote: »

Cheerio.

Before you go - I reckon you'd pay for a set of jerseys with the money wasted. Or meals after training for a couple of weeks.

Floodlights should be used to clear fixture congestion, not for the sake of using them. In National League they would be a Saturday night money spinner also.

For the record I agree that Fitzgerald's costs are likely to be massive (I've never seen figures), but as it has happened already there is no point wasting any more energy on it. Its about controlling what can be controlled at this point.

You're talking about figures so negligible relative to the crazy overspending on other things. Seriously, such a bad example. It just comes off as typical anti-football sentiment.

hardybuck

Et Cetera wrote: »

And what about the larger crowd at the Sat night football games?

Yes, if it is organised properly. However, in this case they put one on a Sat night and one on a Sunday night - very inconvenient for the latter two teams involved.

Had they staged a double header they'd have attracted the fans that would go either way, and all the hangers on and neutrals. As ever, the GAA aren't the best at marketing though.

hardybuck

Et Cetera wrote: »

You're talking about figures so negligible relative to the crazy overspending on other things. Seriously, such a bad example. It just comes off as typical anti-football sentiment.

I played football for Waterford for over a decade, I know how little money was made available for us when I was playing. You would have been laughed at for asking for a meal after training, never had enough kit handed out etc. As a result, I know how that money could have been better spent.

Et Cetera

hardybuck wrote: »

I played football for Waterford for over a decade, I know how little money was made available for us when I was playing. You would have been laughed at for asking for a meal after training, never had enough kit handed out etc. As a result, I know how that money could have been better spent.

And I currently have been playing with 5 years, so I've seen this transition.

hardybuck

Et Cetera wrote: »

And I currently have been playing with 5 years, so I've seen this transition.

Well you'll be looking at the transition back by the looks of things! Enjoy.