Are you a 'nice guy' or a 'bad guy' ?

parker kent

ForegoneReality wrote: »

Is it not a status thing as well, though? Most women would pursue the man that they feel other women want? The searching for the 'Alpha Male' who's generally going to be horrible to other people so that he can ascertain his 'dominance'?

Again those are labels that just describe hypothetical caricatures of people.

Logical Fallacy

parker kent wrote: »

Again those are labels that just describe hypothetical caricatures of people.

The issue i have with the Alpha Male ideal is that it works very well as a concept within animal behaviour etc but humans have developed too complex a social system for it to really apply.

Things are easier when you are animals, it's hunt, eat, hump. Once you are the one doing all 3 first you are the Alpha.

Humans are more complex, lets say someone has a good job, lots of cash, lots of stuff...lets say person two is capable of beating the **** out of them and taking their stuff. In the animal kingdom this would be a perfect Alpha, in our society it would be a criminal.

So yeah, i'm with you...applying the Alpha ideal to people is some false logic i reckon.

py2006

Scanlas The 2nd

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

The issue i have with the Alpha Male ideal is that it works very well as a concept within animal behaviour etc but humans have developed too complex a social system for it to really apply.

Things are easier when you are animals, it's hunt, eat, hump. Once you are the one doing all 3 first you are the Alpha.

Humans are more complex, lets say someone has a good job, lots of cash, lots of stuff...lets say person two is capable of beating the **** out of them and taking their stuff. In the animal kingdom this would be a perfect Alpha, in our society it would be a criminal.

So yeah, i'm with you...applying the Alpha ideal to people is some false logic i reckon.

I do believe women are attracted to the alpha male in a particular setting. The alpha male is the male who dominates and can lead the group. In a given social setting there are usually men who are more comfortable than other men and give off signals without realising it that they are more comfortable than other men. I believe women are often attracted to these men. That's not to say in a different social setting those men will still be the alpha males though. I think women are just wired to see how the cues men are giving out in their local group and to see the cues that other people are displaying towards the men in the group. If the right cues are taking place from and to a man then I believe chances skyrocket that a woman becomes attracted to him. I still think the alpha male dynamic works in our society it's just different to other animal socieities.

Logical Fallacy

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I do believe women are attracted to the alpha male in a particular setting. The alpha male is the male who dominates and can lead the group. In a given social setting there are usually men who are more comfortable than other men and give off signals without realising it that they are more comfortable than other men. I believe women are often attracted to these men. That's not to say in a different social setting those men will still be the alpha males though. I think women are just wired to see how the cues men are giving out in their local group and to see the cues that other people are displaying towards the men in the group. If the right cues are taking place from and to a man then I believe chances skyrocket that a woman becomes attracted to him. I still think the alpha male dynamic works in our society it's just different to other animal socieities.

I think there is a big difference between situation confidence and being an alpha male but i understand your point and would kind of agree.

For me, an Alpha is an absolute until dethroned so i guess that's why i don't see it applying to humans as much.

battser

the whole good guy bad guy thing is just there as an excuse for those who fail to seduce the wimmins the way they like it! TBH if you don't GTL then your just fooked and they will never be DTF, This is much more important that your personality! :pac::pac::pac:

py2006

battser wrote: »

the whole good guy bad guy thing is just there as an excuse for those who fail to seduce the wimmins the way they like it! TBH if you don't GTL then your just fooked and they will never be DTF, This is much more important that your personality! :pac::pac::pac:

In my experience its the 'wimmins' that do the labeling here.

That_Guy

I'm a prick.... sometimes.

Moomoo1

irishh_bob wrote: »

success is always achieved at the expense of someone else in some shape or form , anyone who says otherwise is a liar

you are very wrong. Very often success breeds success.

eg you can make an amazing invention tomorrow, sell it to people, give people employment.... all without making anyone else's life worse.

there is positive success like that, and there is negative success, where to go a rung up you have to drag someone else a rung down.

Moomoo1

I, too, find the stereotype that all 'nice guys' are hopeless losers with women a little strange. Presumably this comes from when women would tell a guy 'sorry I can't go out with you/you are dumped because you are too nice', although what they really mean is 'sorry I can't go out with you/you are dumped because you are unattractive to me'. I'd risk a guess that the lack of attraction was due to many more factors than just 'niceness', but 'nice' is just an easy way out of having to explain all that.

Being a nice guy (and ideally I would like put myself firmly into that category) does not mean you have to be a doormat, act needy, tolerate people acting unreasonably, be easily led, not show initiative, and so on. It certainly does not mean that you aren't allowed to flirt (admittedly, I was always useless at this, always rubbish at talking to people) or employ any other techniques for attracting women, or that you should profess your undying love with a bunch of flowers on day one (although that one is a social construct - in many other countries that would get you the girl, but in the West this sort of thing is associated with neediness).

willmunny1990

nice guy for what its worth in todays world

Mascatodreams

The other shoe :
(IMO-plz don't take offense
Take a room full of guys...and room 3 women...#1-the "sweet" girl,she's gentle,sweet,very sensitive,content to spend the night sitting at home talking with you...the"I'll clean your mess for you" #2-the "bad" girl, she's cocky,exteremely flirty,,demanding,she would rather go clubbing than sit at home "bored"...the "you better clean your mess" #3- just a "regular" girl,she's alittle bit of both,she nice,good personality,easy going,...the "here,let me help clean that mess"

Is #2 better than #1..or #3..me personally,I think that they're equal...it depends on how old the guys in room are and what they're looking for .

I think that's what dating is all about, learning what you want in your mate...I probably didn't get my point across...so I'll say I like what Maple said!

Raze_them_all

Mascatodreams wrote: »

The other shoe :
(IMO-plz don't take offense
Take a room full of guys...and room 3 women...#1-the "sweet" girl,she's gentle,sweet,very sensitive,content to spend the night sitting at home talking with you...the"I'll clean your mess for you" #2-the "bad" girl, she's cocky,exteremely flirty,,demanding,she would rather go clubbing than sit at home "bored"...the "you better clean your mess" #3- just a "regular" girl,she's alittle bit of both,she nice,good personality,easy going,...the "here,let me help clean that mess"

Is #2 better than #1..or #3..me personally,I think that they're equal...it depends on how old the guys in room are and what they're looking for .

I think that's what dating is all about, learning what you want in your mate...I probably didn't get my point across...so I'll say I like what Maple said!

Which ones the hottest? thats who I'd go for

ToniTuddle

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Which ones the hottest? thats who I'd go for

Tut tut. Have you never seen A Beautiful Mind?
Never go for the hot girl everyone will be hitting on her. Everyone should ignore her and all go for her mates instead, higher chance of action :pac:

amacachi

Used to think I was a "nice guy", was really just letting myself be used like a dootmat. While since I had any interest in anything female so dunno what I am now. :pac:

Raze_them_all

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Tut tut. Have you never seen A Beautiful Mind?
Never go for the hot girl everyone will be hitting on her. Everyone should ignore her and all go for her mates instead, higher chance of action :pac:

Pffft I'll take the hottie or nothing!

1saddude

Neither good or bad, I'm just a guy.

1saddude

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Pffft I'll take the hottie or nothing!

If you ignore the hottie and talk to her ugly friend instead it messes with the hot one's head. It makes it easier to eventually get the hot one.

Logical Fallacy

1saddude wrote: »

If you ignore the hottie and talk to her ugly friend instead it messes with the hot one's head. It makes it easier to eventually get the hot one.

Yeah, but when you are good looking, interesting and intelligent you can just go straight for the hot one.

Life is awesome.

darklighter

Oh_Noes wrote: »

I find problems with the distinction too as I selected bad guy in the poll before properly reading the thread. I tend to get on the wrong side of people a lot and get in trouble with the police, don't eat healthily or go to the gym, I'm very rarely politically correct and I hop between jobs. Not mammy material at all but I always have treated women well and never been tagged as a person that treats people poorly in relationships.

I don't think you have to be "the fonze" or Daniel O'Donell, there's definitely a bit of no man's land in between and extremities on both sides.

I think the actual question you're asking is "how well do you treat women?"

Personally, how you treat a woman is how I would interpret the question.

As a guy with a younger sister and a good number of female friends, that is how they all describe "good" or "bad" guys.

A "bad" guy mistreats women, be it physically or mentally etc.

A "good" guy doesn't, that doesn't mean he's a doormat or can't attract women.

Maguined wrote: »

I used to be a "nice guy" in that I was shy, insecure, had low self confidence and extremely poor social skills especially talking to girls. Now I have found my confidence and so have no problem talking to people, even those scary girls! Though plenty of people view my confidence as arrogance so there are some people that do not like me and might label me as a "bad boy" though I do not consider myself one.

I have a friend who most women will admit is attractive, he himself has no problem chatting girls up and exudes confidence. Yet when he gets into a relationship, he becomes "whipped" for want of a better term. Girls would refer to him as a "nice guy"

I would be the complete opposite to him in the looks and confidence department and yet am also called a "nice guy".

As i see it, confidence doesnt have anything to with whether you're a good or bad boy.

Moomoo1 wrote: »

I, too, find the stereotype that all 'nice guys' are hopeless losers with women a little strange. Presumably this comes from when women would tell a guy 'sorry I can't go out with you/you are dumped because you are too nice', although what they really mean is 'sorry I can't go out with you/you are dumped because you are unattractive to me'. I'd risk a guess that the lack of attraction was due to many more factors than just 'niceness', but 'nice' is just an easy way out of having to explain all that.

Being a nice guy (and ideally I would like put myself firmly into that category) does not mean you have to be a doormat, act needy, tolerate people acting unreasonably, be easily led, not show initiative, and so on. It certainly does not mean that you aren't allowed to flirt (admittedly, I was always useless at this, always rubbish at talking to people) or employ any other techniques for attracting women, or that you should profess your undying love with a bunch of flowers on day one (although that one is a social construct - in many other countries that would get you the girl, but in the West this sort of thing is associated with neediness).

^^^QFT

darklighter

1saddude wrote: »

If you ignore the hottie and talk to her ugly friend instead it messes with the hot one's head. It makes it easier to eventually get the hot one.

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Yeah, but when you are good looking, interesting and intelligent you can just go straight for the hot one.

Life is awesome.

But if your not all that good looking, this advice actually seems to work

Wish i'd figured that out years ago

py2006

darklighter wrote: »

A "bad" guy mistreats women, be it physically or mentally etc.

A "good" guy doesn't, that doesn't mean he's a doormat or can't attract women.

I have to agree with this!

sunflower27

Bad boys are a dime a dozen. In my experience the younger ones are the worst. It's all bravado.

Men in their 30s/40s for the most part have grown out of the 'I have to treat her mean to keep her keen' carry-on.

Just my experience. There is a lot to be said for a guy that is respectful and thoughtful. A lot

If a girl doesn't appreciate respectful and decent qualities, don't take it personally, she's just immature. She'll be pining for those qualities in her 30s when most of the decent guys have been snapped up by the smarter girls

Snowie

sunflower27 wrote: »

Bad boys are a dime a dozen. In my experience the younger ones are the worst. It's all bravado.

Men in their 30s/40s for the most part have grown out of the 'I have to treat her mean to keep her keen' carry-on.

Just my experience. There is a lot to be said for a guy that is respectful and thoughtful. A lot

If a girl doesn't appreciate respectful and decent qualities, don't take it personally, she's just immature. She'll be pining for those qualities in her 30s when most of the decent guys have been snapped up by the smarter girls

flaterey and charm will get you no were:pac:

sunflower27

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

flaterey and charm will get you no were:pac:

I was being honest! It's true.... took me long enough to work it out as well

Snowie

sunflower27 wrote: »

I was being honest! It's true.... took me long enough to work it out as well

I know, amount of women I know who were all night party goers who went out with the bad boy for years then turn around and say ye new guy Im seeing is totally different hes a man apposed a post pubessent man childs..

tho good to hear you have your prioritys in order... :cool:

Scanlas The 2nd

sunflower27 wrote: »

Bad boys are a dime a dozen. In my experience the younger ones are the worst. It's all bravado.

Men in their 30s/40s for the most part have grown out of the 'I have to treat her mean to keep her keen' carry-on.

Just my experience. There is a lot to be said for a guy that is respectful and thoughtful. A lot

If a girl doesn't appreciate respectful and decent qualities, don't take it personally, she's just immature. She'll be pining for those qualities in her 30s when most of the decent guys have been snapped up by the smarter girls

A fair bit of magical thinking above. In terms of your ability to seduce women being thoughtful and respectful alone doesn't have much value to women. Anyone can be thoughful and respectful, kind etc...if that worked all men would be doing it, but how can all men get the few most desired women. I think your massaging your ego by saying women who "don't appreciate these qualities are immature". Most people appreciate these qualities or miss them when they are gone but if by appreciate you mean drop her knickers for you or enter a sexual relationship you won't find many women in demand who "appreciate" being thoughtful and respectful.

sunflower27

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

A fair bit of magical thinking above. In terms of your ability to seduce women being thoughtful and respectful alone doesn't have much value to women. Anyone can be thoughful and respectful, kind etc...if that worked all men would be doing it, but how can all men get the few most desired women. I think your massaging your ego by saying women who "don't appreciate these qualities are immature". Most people appreciate these qualities or miss them when they are gone but if by appreciate you mean drop her knickers for you or enter a sexual relationship you won't find many women in demand who "appreciate" being thoughtful and respectful.

I'm female, not male, and I am not saying all a guy has to be is thoughtful and respectful. i simply pointed out two traits that most 'good guys' possess.

I didn't realise there was only a few, most desired women that men went for.

And I stand by what i said, I'm in my 30s now and have seen plenty of examples of women in their 30s that dismissed decent men in their 20s for bad boys and now look back and regret it.

Scanlas The 2nd

sunflower27 wrote: »

I'm female, not male, and I am not saying all a guy has to be is thoughtful and respectful. i simply pointed out two traits that most 'good guys' possess.

I didn't realise there was only a few, most desired women that men went for.

And I stand by what i said, I'm in my 30s now and have seen plenty of examples of women in their 30s that dismissed decent men in their 20s for bad boys and now look back and regret it.

I'm sure there are many women stuck in marriages who regret marrying the nice guy too. Women imo just aren't attracted too "nice guys" for the most part and they can't help what they feel.

Most men wouldn't be with the women they are with now if they could choose whoever they wanted.

sunflower27

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'm sure there are many women stuck in marriages who regret marrying the nice guy too. Women imo just aren't attracted too "nice guys" for the most part and they can't help what they feel.

I don't know about that. I have plenty of friends that are married to nice guys that were nice in their 20s and great as well in their 30s.

Of course everyone is different. We are who we are and no point acting like a bad guy if it isn't who you are. I certainly wouldn't act differently to the way I normally am to get a partner - I mean, how long could (or would I want) to sustain a totally different persona.