Are you a 'nice guy' or a 'bad guy' ?

py2006

In fairness, you are right in part! But I think a little extreme view of the 'nice guy' thing.

Surely, they can't all be pathetic loosers. As I said, I have had that tag once or twice from people but I do let rip at anybody who tries to walk all over me.

parker kent

Nice guy does not equal a doormat or somebody who needs to "man up". A doormat equals a doormat. A "nice guy" is just that, a guy who happens to be nice. You can be a nice guy and be the most confident man in the room.

That internet discussions still centre around 2 ridiculous stereotypes of the doormat "nice guy" who is miserable and lonely and the díckhead "bad guy" that gets all the girls is a bit ridiculous.

Carsinian Thau

Having read the replies to this thread, I'd genuinely struggle which option to define myself with. This description:

SlickRic wrote: »

wet, doormat squibs who spend their time moaning because 'women aren't interested in me'.

nice, but boring, with no backbone.

used to be the most perfect way to describe me (and to a certain extent, it still is as I'd doubt I've changed all that much to be completely honest). At a push, I'd say I occupy both extremes, in that I'm such a 'nice guy' (by the above definition) that I become a 'bad guy' due to the sickly, somewhat pathetically creepy extent of being such a socially inept doormat.

As other posters have said, the middle ground or being a decent (nice) guy but with a backbone and the confidence not to be a doormat or embarrassingly grateful for having someone acknowledge your existence is the way to go.

KyussBishop

A lot of the 'confidence' stuff is portrayed as personal success in relation to other people, but that's kind of a counterproductive way to put it because then you're comparing to other people, and are more likely to feel inadequate then.
Confidence is more about comfort and security in yourself and your abilities, not about competing with others.

The trouble with this whole 'nice guy', 'bad guy' topic is that it's discussed almost entirely based on (usually black/white) generalizations, which end up being interpreted in skewed/inaccurate ways.

I think the term 'nice guy' is kind of an unhelpful and exaggeratedly negative way to describe/portray things, due to how general it is (and all the inaccurate connotations that follow).
It's better to describe specific problems with someones personality, that they can work on directly; e.g. assertiveness, insecurities and whatever else (all of which differ on a case-by-case basis).

Joey the lips

I am very modest...

Ben Dover and Phil McCock

I am a guy. Good and bad.

Just like everyone else.

Scanlas The 2nd

I think some "nice guys" think you need to be a "bad guy" to do well with women because they see men who slag and make fun of women doing well with them. What they don't realise is women like to be slagged and be made fun of by men in a funny playful way. It's part of flirting.

irishh_bob

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I think some "nice guys" think you need to be a "bad guy" to do well with women because they see men who slag and make fun of women doing well with them. What they don't realise is women like to be slagged and be made fun of by men in a funny playful way. It's part of flirting.

most do but you need to watch out for the minority of humourless shrill feminist types , this group also happen to command a lot of power nowadays and have a disproportionate level of influence in the media etc

parker kent

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I think some "nice guys" think you need to be a "bad guy" to do well with women because they see men who slag and make fun of women doing well with them. What they don't realise is women like to be slagged and be made fun of by men in a funny playful way. It's part of flirting.

That is not a problem for "nice guys", it is an issue for men who may not know how to flirt with some women. Nice guys is not interchangeable with men who do badly with women. Unless lazy generalisations in online debates counts (that line isn't a potshot at your btw, just the whole notion of nice guys v bad boys in online debates)

Raze_them_all

If you were to lump me with one of the two in general I'd be a bad guy, but with the girls I've made an effort with they'd class me as a good guy

nicechick!

py2006 wrote: »

I used to be quite chuffed to be told that I was a 'nice guy' but it took me a while to realise that isn't necessarily a good thing. It was one of the reasons for hitting the 'friend-zone' with women far too quickly!

In a recent conversation to try and get my head around the whole situation I was informed that if you are referred to as being a 'nice guy' your a pretty much viewed as a wuss, not a real man and its a turn off for some women! A little harsh I thought!

Exactly what is a 'bad guy'? Is it merely somebody who is a bit arrogant or is it the guy that slaps the women around and sleeps with her friends etc or is that too far in the extreme?

Anyway, how would you categories yourself? or, more interestingly, how are you categorised by others?

I would like to think any man beating a women is an extreme bad boys/guys are simply (from the chicks point of view) are the ones that just not that into us! From my experience of calling someone ''bad'' as such is more likely the chick probably wanted something from the guy that he couldn't give them at the time basically they want the boy/guy/flirt to cherish the effin ground they walked on and well to tell the story! Rejection sucks!!

I think us chicks infatuation (gets us in trouble!) with a man that they ''think'' they can change they'll daydream/dwell over the fact that the guy is interested in them, that he'll eventually fall madly in love with them blah blah truthfully its a case of chicks wanting what they can't have!!

Now there are guys out there that probably are truly not nice people and some do treat women really badly for there own personnel gain and bring things to the extreme but this is mainly due to the girls that tolerates poor, disrespectful behavior!

From my own experience and those of my friends dilemma's its more the ego is bruised, confidence takes a wee knock & to make ourselves feel better by ehh thinking he's a complete ''arse'' more often then not the guy probably never lied to them never gave them any illusions as such but through there infatuation/like/daydreaming/dwelling over a situation whatever you call it couldn't see this at the time thus ended up feeling upset and rejected when they realize that yes he's just not that into you!!

I'm at the bad guy/girl stage I have zero tolerance for men, I have no interest whatsoever in them however nice they are! I am purely I admit using men for my own entertainment/purposes only - I won't lie, cheat or hide about it I just don't want a bf I will say I am not interested in a relationship blah blah yet the guy still wants more contact still wants a wee date still thinks that I am interested in creating something more! The only difference is that men tend to figure it out a tad bit quicker then the chicks.... I hope I'm making sense here!!

FetchTheGin

nicechick! wrote: »

I think us chicks infatuation (gets us in trouble!) with a man that they ''think'' they can change they'll daydream/dwell over the fact that the guy is interested in them, that he'll eventually fall madly in love with them blah blah truthfully its a case of chicks wanting what they can't have!!

There are lads I know of that have done the above, so in the woman's case they have been successful, only for the girl to turn around and say he is not the man he once was etc. etc. after he does "fall madly in love".

I have known girls that have had relationships with woman beaters and 9 times out of 10 that will be their longest relationship to date.

Scanlas The 2nd

parker kent wrote: »

That is not a problem for "nice guys", it is an issue for men who may not know how to flirt with some women. Nice guys is not interchangeable with men who do badly with women. Unless lazy generalisations in online debates counts (that line isn't a potshot at your btw, just the whole notion of nice guys v bad boys in online debates)

It's not an issue for nice guys but it is an issue for "nice guys". "nice guys" can't flirt. "nice guys" walk on egg shells which repels women. People usually know what a "nice guy" is. It's not made up. When people use the term "nice guys" they are usually referring to someone with the characteristics I described. So I think the OPs question of are you a nice guy is legitmate, or more accurately are you percieved as a "nice guy".

Maple

Your stereotypical bad boy is boring. Why any woman would knowingly want to be with an asshole is beyond me, I don't think it thrilling to be treated like sh1t, where is the attraction in that?

Your stereotypical nice guy is boring too. Nobody likes a doormat.

The ideal is a man somewhere in between. You want someone you can have the craic with, someone who's a little bit naughty, someone who'll give you a hug when you need it but equally tell you to stop being an asshole when you're acting like one.

Stereotypes are very boring.

parker kent

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

It's not an issue for nice guys but it is an issue for "nice guys". "nice guys" can't flirt. "nice guys" walk on egg shells which repels women. People usually know what a "nice guy" is. It's not made up. When people use the term "nice guys" they are usually referring to someone with the characteristics I described. So I think the OPs question of are you a nice guy is legitmate, or more accurately are you percieved as a "nice guy".

I just thinking sticking quotation marks around nice guy is a bit silly really. Just call a spade a spade.

Scanlas The 2nd

parker kent wrote: »

I just thinking sticking quotation marks around nice guy is a bit silly really. Just call a spade a spade.

Would you agree that when women call a man a nice guy it usually means that man struggles with women and lacks assertiveness?

stupidusername

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Would you agree that when women call a man a nice guy it usually means that man struggles with women and lacks assertiveness?

I definitely wouldn't agree. talking to someone about a guy the other day, she was saying he's nice, and genuinely meant it. it wasn't meant as an insult.

Scanlas The 2nd

stupidusername wrote: »

I definitely wouldn't agree. talking to someone about a guy the other day, she was saying he's nice, and genuinely meant it. it wasn't meant as an insult.

Women don't use it as an insult ( not that I'm aware of anyway), that's not what I was insuating. There is merely a correlation between being called a "nice guy" by women and and ability or lack thereof to attract women.

I'm sure they do usually mean it, but she didn't use the term "nice guy", that seems to be the one that often correlates with a man being weak with women.

stupidusername

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Women don't use it as an insult ( not that I'm aware of anyway), that's not what I was insuating. There is merely a correlation between being called a "nice guy" by women and and ability or lack thereof to attract women.

I'm sure they do usually mean it, but she didn't use the term "nice guy", that seems to be the one that often correlates with a man being weak with women.

if you're looking for exact wording.... "he's nice" and he's a "good bloke". i think you're putting too much thought into the wording tbh.

parker kent

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Would you agree that when women call a man a nice guy it usually means that man struggles with women and lacks assertiveness?

I wouldn't agree at all. Ithink that the phrase nice guy is often used by a large amount of men and women to describe somebody who is both a guy and a nice person.

These online debates are the main place that the issue of the so-called "nice-guy" turns up. Maybe my friends respect the English language too much or are more straightforward than the women you know.

St.Spodo

I'm a really nice, mannerly guy who treats women appropriately.I'm just waiting for women to realise they're better off with me than some jerk. Then I'll be up to my neck in clunge.

:pac:

Tar.Aldarion

im a good natured person but i wouldnt call myself a 'nice guy', a lot of so called nice guys are anything but

Scanlas The 2nd

parker kent wrote: »

I wouldn't agree at all. Ithink that the phrase nice guy is often used by a large amount of men and women to describe somebody who is both a guy and a nice person.

These online debates are the main place that the issue of the so-called "nice-guy" turns up. Maybe my friends respect the English language too much or are more straightforward than the women you know.

You are missing my point. All I'm saying is there is a correletion with being called a nice guy and ability to attract women. I'm not saying the people who use the term "nice guy" have an alterior motive for saying it. I agree that all they are saying is that he is a nice guy, but if you look at the men who are often described as "nice guys" I think you'll see that they have a weaker ability to attract women on average than the average male population.

parker kent

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

You are missing my point. All I'm saying is there is a correletion with being called a nice guy and ability to attract women. I'm not saying the people who use the term "nice guy" have an alterior motive for saying it. I agree that all they are saying is that he is a nice guy, but if you look at the men who are often described as "nice guys" I think you'll see that they have a weaker ability to attract women on average than the average male population.

I'm not missing your very obvious point. You asked if I agreed with your statement. I didn't. I have heard many women use the term for a guy they found attractive.

Malari

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

You are missing my point. All I'm saying is there is a correletion with being called a nice guy and ability to attract women. I'm not saying the people who use the term "nice guy" have an alterior motive for saying it. I agree that all they are saying is that he is a nice guy, but if you look at the men who are often described as "nice guys" I think you'll see that they have a weaker ability to attract women on average than the average male population.

I don't know if being a negative-nice guy is actually something that's obvious before you get together with someone.

I knew a guy years ago, I would not have described him as particularly "nice" - in fact I don't think he was that popular among other members of the class (was in college at the time). He had a wicked sense of humour and we hit it off. Despite me not wanting anything serious, he turned into this fawning, obsequious, desperate person who thought he was being "nice" to me, when I found it completely off-putting. THEN he turned manipulative and bitter when the "niceness" didn't work.

I would never have described him as nice, before or after this debacle, but he would have. There were plenty of guys I and other girls knew who we all thought were nice and had plenty of success with girls because they were generally considered "sound out" (as they say in Cork :pac:).

Scanlas The 2nd

parker kent wrote: »

I'm not missing your very obvious point. You asked if I agreed with your statement. I didn't. I have heard many women use the term for a guy they found attractive.

How do you know they found them attractive? People say lots of things, actions speak louder than words. Do they have sex with these men they call "nice guys"?

Do you not think that men who are often called "nice guys" are less capable of attracting women on average compared the the average for the male population?

I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but overall I think if a man finds himself often being referred to as a "nice guy" by women he usually will have trouble attracting women.

py2006

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

How do you know they found them attractive? People say lots of things, actions speak louder than words. Do they have sex with these men they call "nice guys"?

Do you not think that men who are often called "nice guys" are less capable of attracting women on average compared the the average for the male population?

I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but overall I think if a man finds himself often being referred to as a "nice guy" by women he usually will have trouble attracting women.

This I have found to be true with a lot of guys!!

EDIT: Except with older women 35+

parker kent

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

How do you know they found them attractive? People say lots of things, actions speak louder than words. Do they have sex with these men they call "nice guys"?

I know because for one particular girl, she subsequently had a kid with him. I presume that answers your question.

Do you not think that men who are often called "nice guys" are less capable of attracting women on average compared the the average for the male population?

No.

feelpablo

I have been labelled both..

Bad guy because of my apperance, the tattoos, beard and build tend to do that for some reason. Also people who dont really know me tend to think i'm some form of hard nut(which im far from) and a bit of a dick!!

But any one that takes the time to get to know me soon see that im generally a good guy that will do anything for a real friend.

But when it comes to ladies and this goes for all my realtionships past and present I do my upmost to respect and show my genuine love for the girl im with.

I dont **** about, i have manners and i will do anything in my power for them, but i wont be walked over and i learnt this the hard way!

I have my own little things that probably annoys my girlfriend and she also but we are only humans and as long as there is respect i dont care what group im lumped in with!

FGR

Is it not a status thing as well, though? Most women would pursue the man that they feel other women want? The searching for the 'Alpha Male' who's generally going to be horrible to other people so that he can ascertain his 'dominance'?