Are you a 'nice guy' or a 'bad guy' ?

py2006

Galvasean wrote: »

I absolutely detest what the term 'nice guy' implies these days. It's usually used by melodramatic and self righteous (for lack of a better word) ponces as a weird excuse as to why they are hopeless with the ladies. Being an overly introvert wallflower does not automatically make someone a nice person. You can be quiet, sensitive and frigid and still be a complete ass of a person.

Well, as I have been tagged the 'nice guy' a couple of times I would hope that they don't meant I am 'melodramatic and self righteous ponce'.

If, as you are suggesting, its the men that tag themselves as nice guys then surely in their eyes it means they are decent, polite and respectful of everyone!

Personally, I don't like the tag because of what it suggests to some! But I would not categorise myself as bad guy either! A happy medium I guess!

Wibbs

I've been a "nice guy" and a "bad guy", more the latter. In the former incarnation I basically did too much for the girlfriends in my life(with a sniff of doormat). It would be my humble that there is a point of doing too much, or revealing too much of your inner thoughts. I certainly found results were better when I didn't and held back. When I did do something it was appreciated much more.

There's defo a balance. The problem can be that if you go too far the other way, you do seem to get more respect and attention. That can be quite confusing. Especially to younger guys(dealing with younger women). Where "treat em mean, keep em keen" seems to be much more a truism than it's not. In the face of women claiming it's untrue they see the results. I had a woman mate like that. Would constantly say "oh no I like a good man" yet would go from one emotionally distant creep to the next and ignore actual good guys like the very plague. If she did try one of the latter, boredom set in fast. I've seen that one repeated a lot and these women weren't flakes.

What would I think now? Don't go to extremes. Don't just "be yourself" either. That's pretty useless advice too often trotted out as golden. I'd say find out who "yourself" is. The best "yourself" you can be. Work n that, improve where you need to improve and lose as much ego as you can. Be that self. I would say don't treat anyone "mean", regardless of gender. That's the oul ego talking again. Do keep a small amount of yourself back and keep your own council at times. Especially emotionally. Don't be a girl friend to your girlfriend.

But my rule one? Don't expect nor take crap just because the person giving you that crap possesses breasts. Far too many men IME do this*. They almost expect flaky behaviour from a woman. Yes there are a lot of emotionally flaky women out there. Real demanding numbskulls where anything beyond a brief dalliance is not worth your effort or time. Equally there are a lot that aren't like that. Millions of them. Pick one of those. Avoid the flakes. IME they rarely grow out of it, they just hide it better or it comes out in other ways.

I'd agree with dsmythy re where young(and not so young) women can be confused by a cocky man. He gives off the impression of self respect and confidence but it's often a mask. A man who respects himself can come across as more "bad" than "good" and it can confuse younger women.




*on the other side women too often take crap just to have a Boyfriend(tm). More to the point to not be single. Don't.

Vanbis

I'm the nice guy but i do wonder sometimes if i was the bad guy more often would certrain situations have worked out for the better.

Gandalph

Nearly everyone is going to say their a nice guy but its a whole different story in reality.

dsmythy

Gandalph wrote: »

Nearly everyone is going to say their a nice guy but its a whole different story in reality.

The 'bad' guy declares his interest in a woman. The 'nice' guy pretends to be her friend and tries to snake his way into her affections womanly bits.

One example there where some self declared nice guys maybe are not as grand as they would argue. Sometimes they themselves are not even aware of how wrong it can appear.

Wibbs

dsmythy wrote: »

Sometimes they themselves are not even aware of how wrong it can appear.

This in a big way. Every single self confessed "nice guy who can't get a woman" type I've ever met had both low social awareness and low self awareness. Throw in a side order of entitlement and ego to boot. No exceptions IME anyway.

um7y1h83ge06nx

This sh*t drives me spare (the whole topic, not your thread OP).

I agree with some posters that younger women prefer the "bad guys" more. Eventually when they mature things change.

I was talking to a male friend recently about this. When we were 18 or 19, we were worthless to women. Women of our age preferred the so called "bad guys" over us, lads who were cocky, arrogant and prone to a few Saturday night punch ups or minor skirmishes with the law. We then said how now (being 27-28) the whole thing has completely changed. We have went from being worthless to being very attractive to women. I often joke that If I stayed in my home town and didn't go to college I'd probably still be a virgin!

I would describe myself as a decent, quietly confident guy. I just feel really happy in my skin, particularly in the last year or so. I don't need to be cocky or arrogant, I can just be.

Any women around my age (28) that stills like the stereotypical "bad guy" is at best very immature.

gargleblaster

This thread is very interesting. Very much not the usual type of discussion of this issue.

I'm intrigued now, though, wondering whether this same dynamic holds true going the other way - if women who act as a good girl or bad girl stereotype have more or less luck with the opposite sex. Either way, nice thread.

Wibbs

gargleblaster wrote: »

I'm intrigued now, though, wondering whether this same dynamic holds true going the other way - if women who act as a good girl or bad girl stereotype have more or less luck with the opposite sex. Either way, nice thread.

Would depend on what one defines as luck too I suppose? In very general terms if she's a bitch she'll likely get some attention, again from younger guys, but moreso than men she'll need to be more physically attractive to get away with it for any length of time. Unless she's going for very socially and sexually out of their depth inexperienced men. IE a guy who has never had a girlfriend is going to take far more crap than a guy who has and has choices. And if the women isn't exactly attractive she's going to get little enough out of being overtly bitchy I reckon. Then again I've known guys who've gone out with total wagons(a couple like the back of buses) and still stuck around. Something I could never figure.

Being a "nice" woman, even to somewhat of an extreme is going to have way more luck than the equivalent "nice" man IMHO. Again IMHO Men will take much more emotional stuff and emotional neediness from women and provide women with emotional support without judgement than the other way around. Many almost expect it and many don't even see it. They'll happily say "my GF is fine, yes she's a little difficult at times, but she's not that bad" or "I don't tolerate neediness". Yet there's no way in hell they'd take even the sniff of similar behaviour from a male mate. I know I haven't spotted at times in the past, even when pointed out to me, usually by women mates. Now I'd spot it coming and if I didn't my major red flag would be if one of my women mates pointed it out.

Handsome Bob

I don't think I'm a nice bloke in the derogatory sense. I hear people talking about doormats waiting hand on foot for women and that's not me, I've never done that.

I can often come across as a deer in headlights to people who I've just met though or in situations I'm not comfortable with, that doesn't do me any favours. :pac:

entropi

Some days I can be really nice, some days I can be a bit of a cnut, depends on my mood really. I'd be a good guy, but not a doormat...I can happily tell someone where to go if the need calls for it. My good nature was my downfall in my early 20's and fcuked me over I'd say, I've learned about, and worked on fixing that.

Just being a regular guy I guess.

py2006

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I hear people talking about doormats waiting hand on foot for women and that's not me, I've never done that.

I done it a few times!! and I never realise I am doing it until later down the road!! Makes me so angry with myself! :mad:

Blackpitts

fact.

FetchTheGin

As long as you aren't a pushover or a bastard I think there are no problems.

Although it is impossible not to be both at some stage or another, especially if you like the girl.

G86

'Bad' guys have a short shelf life, they're intriguing for a while but it wears off pretty quickly.

'Nice' guys can be boring and frustrating when they're doormats, no-one wants a 'yes' man.


It's the 'in-between' guy that wins out in the end, a lil bit of TLC mixed with just the right amount of assertiveness and confidence.;)

Maguined

I used to be a "nice guy" in that I was shy, insecure, had low self confidence and extremely poor social skills especially talking to girls. Now I have found my confidence and so have no problem talking to people, even those scary girls! Though plenty of people view my confidence as arrogance so there are some people that do not like me and might label me as a "bad boy" though I do not consider myself one.

ToniTuddle

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I can often come across as a deer in headlights to people who I've just met though

That's soo true!

py2006

G86 wrote: »

'Bad' guys have a short shelf life, they're intriguing for a while but it wears off pretty quickly.

'Nice' guys can be boring and frustrating when they're doormats, no-one wants a 'yes' man.


It's the 'in-between' guy that wins out in the end, a lil bit of TLC mixed with just the right amount of assertiveness and confidence.;)

It's interesting that you associate 'assertiveness' and 'confidence' with the 'bad guy' image. To my mind, the bad guy would be more arrogant and selfish. And a 'nice guy' wouldn't necessarily be a 'doormat' but would have some confidence and be assertive were necessary.


I guess your description is what us guys are looking for in a woman too!

irishh_bob

py2006 wrote: »

It's interesting that you associate 'assertiveness' and 'confidence' with the 'bad guy' image. To my mind, the bad guy would be more arrogant and selfish. And a 'nice guy' wouldn't necessarily be a 'doormat' but would have some confidence and be assertive were necessary.


I guess your description is what us guys are looking for in a woman too!

arrogant is a word that is over used theese days , truth be told , without a certain degree of arrogance , no one ( especially men ) would achieve anything , you need arrogance in order to believe you are capable , entitled and deserving of success , in my experience , women like arrogant men , most highly successfull men are arrogant and those guys are magnets , feminists however hate arrogant men and believe they must be crushed at all times

Waestrel

irishh_bob wrote: »

arrogant is a word that is over used theese days , truth be told , without a certain degree of arrogance , no one ( especially men ) would achieve anything , you need arrogance in order to believe you are capable , entitled and deserving of success , in my experience , women like arrogant men , most highly successfull men are arrogant and those guys are magnets , feminists however hate arrogant men and believe they must be crushed at all times

The trait you described is more what i would consider confidence. Arrogance is believing all those things, and allowing yourself to achieve them directly at the expense of others.

IQDENIED

Malari wrote: »

Originally Posted by irishh_bob
humans are primal when you get right down to it , thousands if not hundreds of years ago , big tough rough and violent conquering men were the ones which fathered the most kids , nice inofensive guys only got a piece of the action when the rule of law became widespread , whenever you hear a tv report about some scumbag who went to jail , beit a crime boss or just a violent thug , the report nearly always includes details of them having kids , violent men are better at reproducing as women actually deep down are attracted to violent men

thats not to say they eventually want to settle down with a rough guy though , modern civilised society has taught them them otherwise

If, thousands of years ago, violent and powerful men fathered more kids it was not because women were attracted to them! It was because women had no choice. In today's society women are not repressing a desire to mate with violent men!

If you had any basis to your arguement it might be an arguement...:pac:

IQDENIED

You need to go bad to school OP, this time read between the lines, not everything is black and white!

py2006

irishh_bob wrote: »

arrogant is a word that is over used theese days , truth be told , without a certain degree of arrogance , no one ( especially men ) would achieve anything , you need arrogance in order to believe you are capable , entitled and deserving of success , in my experience , women like arrogant men , most highly successfull men are arrogant and those guys are magnets , feminists however hate arrogant men and believe they must be crushed at all times

I understand what your saying, but there is a fine line between a strongly confident person and somebody who is outright arrogant!

But you are right, arrogant people do well in life.

py2006

IQDENIED wrote: »

You need to go bad to school OP, this time read between the lines, not everything is black and white!

I agree about the black and white thing! But sections of society seem to place men into one of these two categories! I asked out of curiously which category has anybody been classed as.

Not sure what you mean about the school thing.

irishh_bob

Waestrel wrote: »

The trait you described is more what i would consider confidence. Arrogance is believing all those things, and allowing yourself to achieve them directly at the expense of others.

success is always achieved at the expense of someone else in some shape or form , anyone who says otherwise is a liar

Waestrel

irishh_bob wrote: »

success is always achieved at the expense of someone else in some shape or form , anyone who says otherwise is a liar

How do you figure? How is success in education at some one's expense, success in travel, success in utilising one's talents?

irishh_bob

Waestrel wrote: »

How do you figure? How is success in education at some one's expense, success in travel, success in utilising one's talents?

only so many college places available
only so many job opportunitys in high places
only so many who can win the league , gold medal etc

py2006

irishh_bob wrote: »

only so many college places available
only so many job opportunitys in high places
only so many who can win the league , gold medal etc

I think the point is you are not deliberately hurting, walking all over somebody with callous disregard in order to achieve any of those!

irishh_bob

py2006 wrote: »

I think the point is you are not deliberately hurting, walking all over somebody with callous disregard in order to achieve any of those!

winning gold , the premier league or getting 600 points in the leaving doesnt involve hurting someone deliberatley in a callous fashion , thats different but success is still only achieved due to somone ( or some group ) having triumphed over another , sometimes without one side being familiar with the other

btw , i dont think their is any alternative to this dynamic

SlickRic

women like confidence.

they sometimes look to "bad guys" because they have this confidence.

"nice guys" often are wet, doormat squibs who spend their time moaning because 'women aren't interested in me'.

it's up to nice guys to step up and give a woman a reason to be interested in them.

sitting there and licking your wounds because you can't find a woman isn't going to get you anywhere. why would a woman be interested in someone who feels sorry for himself, and spends his time bemoaning women because they don't pick him; all the while he's being nice, but boring, with no backbone.

i spent most of my teen years being that guy, and it gets you nowhere.

too many 'nice' men have the backbone of a bar of liquorice. you need to show a woman that you're a nice guy by manning up, and showing her. then she'll have no need to search after a 'bad boy'

my 2c.