Are you a 'nice guy' or a 'bad guy' ?

py2006

I used to be quite chuffed to be told that I was a 'nice guy' but it took me a while to realise that isn't necessarily a good thing. It was one of the reasons for hitting the 'friend-zone' with women far too quickly!

In a recent conversation to try and get my head around the whole situation I was informed that if you are referred to as being a 'nice guy' your a pretty much viewed as a wuss, not a real man and its a turn off for some women! A little harsh I thought!

Exactly what is a 'bad guy'? Is it merely somebody who is a bit arrogant or is it the guy that slaps the women around and sleeps with her friends etc or is that too far in the extreme?

Anyway, how would you categories yourself? or, more interestingly, how are you categorised by others?

Standman

"Nice guy" is quite a subjective term I reckon. I find that the "nice guys" who get stuck in the friend zone are usually the ones who the women don't find physically attractive in the first place.

parker kent

This thread will probably be full of generalisations about friend zones, bad boys, good guys etc. Most of which have some element of truth and large amounts of BS.

All I can say is that I hope my friends and any women I've been involved with think I'm a good guy. I don't think I've knowingly treated anybody badly.

Logical Fallacy

I'm neither and i have very little time for anyone who thinks they are either.

Either.

Weird word.

Dravokivich

I'm "the" guy.

Otis Driftwood

The whole idea that nice guys finish last is a load of cock imo.

You can be a nice person but not be a doormat,there is massive difference between the two however for some unknown reason they are constantly interchanged.

Also,the idea that women go for the "bad boy" over the "good boy" is largely false and I reckon that the majority of women that consciously pick the bad boy are fairly young and learn pretty fast that being treated mean to be kept keen grows old very fast.

There are of course exceptions but of people Ive met or known Id say its largely true.On friend in particular springs to mind.During her youth she had a slew of asshole boyfriends which culminated with having a 2 year relationship with a total douche in her early 20s where he constantly cheated on her and generally treated her badly.

She got married this year to a guy that can only be described as an absolute gentleman however when they started seeing eachother first she was unsure as she thought he was too "nice" to her.Turns out she was just used to being treated like crap so when he did things like buy her flowers for no reason she automatically got suspicious that he had done something.As she got older she realised that it was just something that alot of people do when they love someone.

Not really sure if anything above is relevant to the OP however its my thoughts on it fwiw.

scrubber72

Most women look for a bad guy so they can change him into a nice guy. But most women get a nice guy and change him into a bad guy:D.




Only kiddin

Raze_them_all

Op I'm going to need your definition on both before I lump myself in with one of the camps.

SugarHigh

I'm what's known as... A Bollôx.:D

pablomakaveli

I just try not to be an asshole. I'd be nice to women (well everyone in general) but i wouldn't act like a doormat either.

Da Shins Kelly

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

The whole idea that nice guys finish last is a load of cock imo.

You can be a nice person but not be a doormat,there is massive difference between the two however for some unknown reason they are constantly interchanged.

Also,the idea that women go for the "bad boy" over the "good boy" is largely false and I reckon that the majority of women that consciously pick the bad boy are fairly young and learn pretty fast that being treated mean to be kept keen grows old very fast.

There are of course exceptions but of people Ive met or known Id say its largely true.On friend in particular springs to mind.During her youth she had a slew of asshole boyfriends which culminated with having a 2 year relationship with a total douche in her early 20s where he constantly cheated on her and generally treated her badly.

She got married this year to a guy that can only be described as an absolute gentleman however when they started seeing eachother first she was unsure as she thought he was too "nice" to her.Turns out she was just used to being treated like crap so when he did things like buy her flowers for no reason she automatically got suspicious that he had done something.As she got older she realised that it was just something that alot of people do when they love someone.

Not really sure if anything above is relevant to the OP however its my thoughts on it fwiw.

I'm a girl, but I just thought I'd comment to say that I agree wholeheartedly with this post. There are girls (mainly young girls) who go for "bad" guys because there is an element of excitement about it at first, but they quickly realise that there's nothing very attractive about someone who constantly cheats on you or makes you feel bad about yourself. I find that most girls grow out of this type of man very quickly. Of course, there are exceptions, and these tend to be women who just don't know what it's like to be treated well by someone. These are the type of women who probably subconsciously go for bad guys and somehow feel like they deserve to be treated terribly.

However, almost all the girls I know would far prefer to be with someone who treats them well, and is a gentleman. In fact, I'd say I prefer a sort of old-fashioned, mannerly, gentlemanly type of bloke to the "exciting", rough attitude of a bad guy. They're more trouble than they're worth, and to be honest, I couldn't be bothered with that sh*t.

leeroybrown

A friend of mine ran an experiment to test this theory. For a week he treated all the girls he was interested in like dirt. Sent txts that he couldn't even believe he got away with and it worked. The result was three girls chasing him!

pragmatic1

Nice and then a bastard.

Snowie

Im the orcward peace of stantionary that never fits on the shelf

Eve_Dublin

I like good men and have always liked good men. I'm going out with a good man now but he swears and drinks beer and stays out late and does naughty things in the bedroom. He's still a good man though. He's just not an alter boy.

Are you saying women like "bad men" as in criminals? Or cheaters? Or men who to run over old people crossing the road? Because I don't know any woman who likes that

ToxicPaddy

Being 100% honest, depends on who you talk to.

Some think I'm a sound easy going nice guy, others think I'm a complete pr*ck.

Now granted, those who think the latter of me usually have crossed me and treated me badly (very badly I may add) in the past and I don't easily forget these things.

So when they worked their way back into my life and thinking they can get away with the same crap again, I usually ended dumping them right up to their ears in sh*te which usually ended with them coming out very badly from it and they have hated me for it since..

Some may call it childish or whatever, I call it karma.

I'm far from a walkover and will stand my ground, the whole puppy dog eyes, crocodile tears etc very rarely work with me so girls who think I'm a soft touch or pushover usually get a serious shock when they are firmly put back in their place and very few of them like it.

On the other hand, if they are proper true friends of mine, I would go to the ends of the earth to help them and when in a relationship, I treat my other half in the best possible way I can.

Guess you cant please all the people all of the time, not that I ever try

Its true that certain girls love a bad guy but then they are usually the ones who are usually treated like dirt and then complain and cry about never being able to find a decent man.. however thankfully they are the minority. I think most girls when they get past a certain age realise that there is a lot more to a relationship than a bit of danger and looks..

Guys are the same though. When younger, its all about t*ts and a*s, who ever has the best is the ones the guys go after. And she usually turns out to be the b*tch who treats guys like dirt. Then they cop on and grow up (well some of them do!! )

Count Duckula

So the two options here appear to be a "nice guy" who is no more than a pathetic wet lettuce who sits in his bedroom and cries, or a "bad guy" who slaps his partner around and cheats on her constantly.

Can I be neither please?

I'm not a "nice guy" or a "bad guy". I'm just a guy, with flaws and foibles and plus points just like every other guy. I try to treat people with respect and manners but at the same time I won't allow myself to be pushed around by bullies. I can be funny, loud, sometimes downright rude. I can be gentle and polite.

I'm not a gentlemen. I don't subscribe to traditional and patriarchal systems of social interaction that limit what I can and can't do in the guise of "gentlemanly" behaviour. I don't expect my partner to by a "lady"; I expect her to be her own woman.

I don't know what this question is asking really, except to try and pigeon-hole men into one of two terrible stereotypes.

Not to mention that in most circles the phrase "nice guy" means something else entirely.

Will

As corny as it sounds I just try to be myself, I don't go out of my way to appear to be either of the above 2 broad generalisations. Just myself, the good and bad sides which I've lil or no control over.

Sky King

I'm a dickhead.

dsmythy

There's another thread about confidence going at the moment and I think confidence is the key.

Younger women will mistaken cockiness and rudeness as confidence. In reality someone putting on the 'bad guy' vibe may be making up for low self-esteem or other issues. As women get older they learn what truly makes a confident man.

Respect for self and others probably has it's role too.

A man with respect for himself and others would presumably be more attractive to many women.

A man with no respect for himself but respect for others is the guy who goes home crying at how nice guys finish last. Reality is he probably lets people walk all over him and is too scared to make that move from being friend to lover. Not necessarily an attractive trait to most.

A man with respect for himself but no-one else is where younger women are more likely to slip up on when it comes to choices of partner. They'll probably slip into a cocky mode.

A man with no respect for himself or others could be a neurotic mess, thug, drug abuser, loner, lunatic. Sky is the limit for this type of guy.

They're just my random thoughts anyway

py2006

Will wrote: »

As corny as it sounds I just try to be myself, I don't go out of my way to appear to be either of the above 2 broad generalisations. Just myself, the good and bad sides which I've lil or no control over.

Well I guess thats pretty much all we can do in life! I didn't mean to suggest that men need to go out of their way to slot into and either category.

Will

py2006 wrote: »

Well I guess thats pretty much all we can do in life! I didn't mean to suggest that men need to go out of their way to slot into and either category.

I think some guys do, I did when I was younger. Tried being super nice, tried acting the bóllox too. Felt fake after a while despite the "success".

py2006

Will wrote: »

I think some guys do, I did when I was younger. Tried being super nice, tried acting the bóllox too. Felt fake after a while despite the "success".

Where you a fake at being nice or a bóllox?

Will

Wasn't being myself by being real nice or being a real sh¡t

py2006

Will wrote: »

Wasn't being myself by being real nice or being a real sh¡t

Yea I done the real nice thing over the years! Mainly out of awkwardness and shyness! Looking back at some instances it is almost cringeworthy!

I try not to do it anymore while still being a nice guy if that makes sense!

PK2008

I'm kind of half and half depending on the time/people involved.


Gotta say though the bad me has definitely gotten a lot more action than the nice me

irishh_bob

py2006 wrote: »

I used to be quite chuffed to be told that I was a 'nice guy' but it took me a while to realise that isn't necessarily a good thing. It was one of the reasons for hitting the 'friend-zone' with women far too quickly!

In a recent conversation to try and get my head around the whole situation I was informed that if you are referred to as being a 'nice guy' your a pretty much viewed as a wuss, not a real man and its a turn off for some women! A little harsh I thought!

Exactly what is a 'bad guy'? Is it merely somebody who is a bit arrogant or is it the guy that slaps the women around and sleeps with her friends etc or is that too far in the extreme?

Anyway, how would you categories yourself? or, more interestingly, how are you categorised by others?

humans are primal when you get right down to it , thousands if not hundreds of years ago , big tough rough and violent conquering men were the ones which fathered the most kids , nice inofensive guys only got a piece of the action when the rule of law became widespread , whenever you hear a tv report about some scumbag who went to jail , beit a crime boss or just a violent thug , the report nearly always includes details of them having kids , violent men are better at reproducing as women actually deep down are attracted to violent men

thats not to say they eventually want to settle down with a rough guy though , modern civilised society has taught them them otherwise

Malari

irishh_bob wrote: »

humans are primal when you get right down to it , thousands if not hundreds of years ago , big tough rough and violent conquering men were the ones which fathered the most kids , nice inofensive guys only got a piece of the action when the rule of law became widespread , whenever you hear a tv report about some scumbag who went to jail , beit a crime boss or just a violent thug , the report nearly always includes details of them having kids , violent men are better at reproducing as women actually deep down are attracted to violent men

thats not to say they eventually want to settle down with a rough guy though , modern civilised society has taught them them otherwise

If, thousands of years ago, violent and powerful men fathered more kids it was not because women were attracted to them! It was because women had no choice. In today's society women are not repressing a desire to mate with violent men!

DB21

Honestly? Depends on the day and the person. I'm a nice guy usually. I help those who need it, but I'm no pushover. But if people piss me off or take advantage of me, I turn into a total asshole, and I make no apologies for it.

Galvasean

I absolutely detest what the term 'nice guy' implies these days. It's usually used by melodramatic and self righteous (for lack of a better word) ponces as a weird excuse as to why they are hopeless with the ladies. Being an overly introvert wallflower does not automatically make someone a nice person. You can be quiet, sensitive and frigid and still be a complete ass of a person.

Oh_Noes

I find problems with the distinction too as I selected bad guy in the poll before properly reading the thread. I tend to get on the wrong side of people a lot and get in trouble with the police, don't eat healthily or go to the gym, I'm very rarely politically correct and I hop between jobs. Not mammy material at all but I always have treated women well and never been tagged as a person that treats people poorly in relationships.

I don't think you have to be "the fonze" or Daniel O'Donell, there's definitely a bit of no man's land in between and extremities on both sides.

I think the actual question you're asking is "how well do you treat women?"

py2006

Galvasean wrote: »

I absolutely detest what the term 'nice guy' implies these days. It's usually used by melodramatic and self righteous (for lack of a better word) ponces as a weird excuse as to why they are hopeless with the ladies. Being an overly introvert wallflower does not automatically make someone a nice person. You can be quiet, sensitive and frigid and still be a complete ass of a person.

Well, as I have been tagged the 'nice guy' a couple of times I would hope that they don't meant I am 'melodramatic and self righteous ponce'.

If, as you are suggesting, its the men that tag themselves as nice guys then surely in their eyes it means they are decent, polite and respectful of everyone!

Personally, I don't like the tag because of what it suggests to some! But I would not categorise myself as bad guy either! A happy medium I guess!

Wibbs

I've been a "nice guy" and a "bad guy", more the latter. In the former incarnation I basically did too much for the girlfriends in my life(with a sniff of doormat). It would be my humble that there is a point of doing too much, or revealing too much of your inner thoughts. I certainly found results were better when I didn't and held back. When I did do something it was appreciated much more.

There's defo a balance. The problem can be that if you go too far the other way, you do seem to get more respect and attention. That can be quite confusing. Especially to younger guys(dealing with younger women). Where "treat em mean, keep em keen" seems to be much more a truism than it's not. In the face of women claiming it's untrue they see the results. I had a woman mate like that. Would constantly say "oh no I like a good man" yet would go from one emotionally distant creep to the next and ignore actual good guys like the very plague. If she did try one of the latter, boredom set in fast. I've seen that one repeated a lot and these women weren't flakes.

What would I think now? Don't go to extremes. Don't just "be yourself" either. That's pretty useless advice too often trotted out as golden. I'd say find out who "yourself" is. The best "yourself" you can be. Work n that, improve where you need to improve and lose as much ego as you can. Be that self. I would say don't treat anyone "mean", regardless of gender. That's the oul ego talking again. Do keep a small amount of yourself back and keep your own council at times. Especially emotionally. Don't be a girl friend to your girlfriend.

But my rule one? Don't expect nor take crap just because the person giving you that crap possesses breasts. Far too many men IME do this*. They almost expect flaky behaviour from a woman. Yes there are a lot of emotionally flaky women out there. Real demanding numbskulls where anything beyond a brief dalliance is not worth your effort or time. Equally there are a lot that aren't like that. Millions of them. Pick one of those. Avoid the flakes. IME they rarely grow out of it, they just hide it better or it comes out in other ways.

I'd agree with dsmythy re where young(and not so young) women can be confused by a cocky man. He gives off the impression of self respect and confidence but it's often a mask. A man who respects himself can come across as more "bad" than "good" and it can confuse younger women.




*on the other side women too often take crap just to have a Boyfriend(tm). More to the point to not be single. Don't.

Vanbis

I'm the nice guy but i do wonder sometimes if i was the bad guy more often would certrain situations have worked out for the better.

Gandalph

Nearly everyone is going to say their a nice guy but its a whole different story in reality.

dsmythy

Gandalph wrote: »

Nearly everyone is going to say their a nice guy but its a whole different story in reality.

The 'bad' guy declares his interest in a woman. The 'nice' guy pretends to be her friend and tries to snake his way into her affections womanly bits.

One example there where some self declared nice guys maybe are not as grand as they would argue. Sometimes they themselves are not even aware of how wrong it can appear.

Wibbs

dsmythy wrote: »

Sometimes they themselves are not even aware of how wrong it can appear.

This in a big way. Every single self confessed "nice guy who can't get a woman" type I've ever met had both low social awareness and low self awareness. Throw in a side order of entitlement and ego to boot. No exceptions IME anyway.

um7y1h83ge06nx

This sh*t drives me spare (the whole topic, not your thread OP).

I agree with some posters that younger women prefer the "bad guys" more. Eventually when they mature things change.

I was talking to a male friend recently about this. When we were 18 or 19, we were worthless to women. Women of our age preferred the so called "bad guys" over us, lads who were cocky, arrogant and prone to a few Saturday night punch ups or minor skirmishes with the law. We then said how now (being 27-28) the whole thing has completely changed. We have went from being worthless to being very attractive to women. I often joke that If I stayed in my home town and didn't go to college I'd probably still be a virgin!

I would describe myself as a decent, quietly confident guy. I just feel really happy in my skin, particularly in the last year or so. I don't need to be cocky or arrogant, I can just be.

Any women around my age (28) that stills like the stereotypical "bad guy" is at best very immature.

gargleblaster

This thread is very interesting. Very much not the usual type of discussion of this issue.

I'm intrigued now, though, wondering whether this same dynamic holds true going the other way - if women who act as a good girl or bad girl stereotype have more or less luck with the opposite sex. Either way, nice thread.

Wibbs

gargleblaster wrote: »

I'm intrigued now, though, wondering whether this same dynamic holds true going the other way - if women who act as a good girl or bad girl stereotype have more or less luck with the opposite sex. Either way, nice thread.

Would depend on what one defines as luck too I suppose? In very general terms if she's a bitch she'll likely get some attention, again from younger guys, but moreso than men she'll need to be more physically attractive to get away with it for any length of time. Unless she's going for very socially and sexually out of their depth inexperienced men. IE a guy who has never had a girlfriend is going to take far more crap than a guy who has and has choices. And if the women isn't exactly attractive she's going to get little enough out of being overtly bitchy I reckon. Then again I've known guys who've gone out with total wagons(a couple like the back of buses) and still stuck around. Something I could never figure.

Being a "nice" woman, even to somewhat of an extreme is going to have way more luck than the equivalent "nice" man IMHO. Again IMHO Men will take much more emotional stuff and emotional neediness from women and provide women with emotional support without judgement than the other way around. Many almost expect it and many don't even see it. They'll happily say "my GF is fine, yes she's a little difficult at times, but she's not that bad" or "I don't tolerate neediness". Yet there's no way in hell they'd take even the sniff of similar behaviour from a male mate. I know I haven't spotted at times in the past, even when pointed out to me, usually by women mates. Now I'd spot it coming and if I didn't my major red flag would be if one of my women mates pointed it out.

Handsome Bob

I don't think I'm a nice bloke in the derogatory sense. I hear people talking about doormats waiting hand on foot for women and that's not me, I've never done that.

I can often come across as a deer in headlights to people who I've just met though or in situations I'm not comfortable with, that doesn't do me any favours. :pac:

entropi

Some days I can be really nice, some days I can be a bit of a cnut, depends on my mood really. I'd be a good guy, but not a doormat...I can happily tell someone where to go if the need calls for it. My good nature was my downfall in my early 20's and fcuked me over I'd say, I've learned about, and worked on fixing that.

Just being a regular guy I guess.

py2006

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I hear people talking about doormats waiting hand on foot for women and that's not me, I've never done that.

I done it a few times!! and I never realise I am doing it until later down the road!! Makes me so angry with myself! :mad:

Blackpitts

fact.

FetchTheGin

As long as you aren't a pushover or a bastard I think there are no problems.

Although it is impossible not to be both at some stage or another, especially if you like the girl.

G86

'Bad' guys have a short shelf life, they're intriguing for a while but it wears off pretty quickly.

'Nice' guys can be boring and frustrating when they're doormats, no-one wants a 'yes' man.


It's the 'in-between' guy that wins out in the end, a lil bit of TLC mixed with just the right amount of assertiveness and confidence.;)

Maguined

I used to be a "nice guy" in that I was shy, insecure, had low self confidence and extremely poor social skills especially talking to girls. Now I have found my confidence and so have no problem talking to people, even those scary girls! Though plenty of people view my confidence as arrogance so there are some people that do not like me and might label me as a "bad boy" though I do not consider myself one.

ToniTuddle

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I can often come across as a deer in headlights to people who I've just met though

That's soo true!

py2006

G86 wrote: »

'Bad' guys have a short shelf life, they're intriguing for a while but it wears off pretty quickly.

'Nice' guys can be boring and frustrating when they're doormats, no-one wants a 'yes' man.


It's the 'in-between' guy that wins out in the end, a lil bit of TLC mixed with just the right amount of assertiveness and confidence.;)

It's interesting that you associate 'assertiveness' and 'confidence' with the 'bad guy' image. To my mind, the bad guy would be more arrogant and selfish. And a 'nice guy' wouldn't necessarily be a 'doormat' but would have some confidence and be assertive were necessary.


I guess your description is what us guys are looking for in a woman too!

irishh_bob

py2006 wrote: »

It's interesting that you associate 'assertiveness' and 'confidence' with the 'bad guy' image. To my mind, the bad guy would be more arrogant and selfish. And a 'nice guy' wouldn't necessarily be a 'doormat' but would have some confidence and be assertive were necessary.


I guess your description is what us guys are looking for in a woman too!

arrogant is a word that is over used theese days , truth be told , without a certain degree of arrogance , no one ( especially men ) would achieve anything , you need arrogance in order to believe you are capable , entitled and deserving of success , in my experience , women like arrogant men , most highly successfull men are arrogant and those guys are magnets , feminists however hate arrogant men and believe they must be crushed at all times

Waestrel

irishh_bob wrote: »

arrogant is a word that is over used theese days , truth be told , without a certain degree of arrogance , no one ( especially men ) would achieve anything , you need arrogance in order to believe you are capable , entitled and deserving of success , in my experience , women like arrogant men , most highly successfull men are arrogant and those guys are magnets , feminists however hate arrogant men and believe they must be crushed at all times

The trait you described is more what i would consider confidence. Arrogance is believing all those things, and allowing yourself to achieve them directly at the expense of others.