Gardaí struggling to pay bills - AGSI

angelfire9

fighterman wrote: »

angelfire your salary analysis omits the below. The rent and pension benefits are not insignificant. Public sector unions need to stop the monthly moanzone and start looking inwards at means of improving efficiencies. Because there are still massive inefficiences in public sector organisations, and these organisations would want to sort themselves out before the IMF do it for them, albeit in a much cruder and harsher fashion.



Gardaí

A bewildering array of allowances costing €215m last year – €300 per week per garda – as well as overtime costing €115m (€109 per week per member) brings an average garda's weekly income to €1,208.

Gardaí also get a rent allowance of €4,300 a year. This cost almost €60m last year.

While the Frontline Alliance makes much of the '24/7' service its members provide, they are well compensated for it. For example, gardaí are paid an unsocial hours allowance for working between 6pm and 8am, and an extra day's pay for working a Sunday. These cost almost €100m last year, yielding around €10,000 a year per garda.

A clerical allowance of over €5,000 a year is paid to gardaí confined to desk work, primarily in compensation for not being able to claim the above unsocial hours' allowances.

More minor allowances include a uniform maintenance allowance (€4.39 a week), plain clothes allowance (€12.21 a week), boot allowance (€2.93 a week), a cycle allowance (€2.53 a week) and a detective allowance (€28.19 a week). Juvenile liaison and community relations gardaí are paid an extra €28.19 a week.

Policing the Gaeltacht areas attracts an additional €3,500 allowance while those working on the islands get an extra €1,500 a year.

Allowances for extra duties or skill sets which cannot be encompassed within the hierarchical grade and pay structure of An Garda Síochána are also paid. Recipients include ministerial drivers, who get an extra 40% – around €19,000 a year.

Gardaí working in the change management unit get an allowance of €6,500 a year. In the air support unit they get €5,000, PSV (public service vehicle) inspectors get €5,000, crime scene examiners get €3,000, radio section officers get €5,300, technical bureau officers receive €5,400 after five years, water unit gardaí receive €5,050 and a welfare officer gets €7,800.

While secure pensions paying 50% of an index-linked salary for life is a major perk for all public servants, gardaí have the additional perk of being able to retire at 50 on a full pension – a benefit which Colm McCarthy estimated would cost 48% of a garda's salary to fund.

I left them out because bar the rent allowance which is taxable I might add my husband doesn't get them
He doesn't work unsocial hours
He's not a clerical officer
He's not in plain clothes nor is he a detective (well he's not in D Branch)
I doubt he's been on a bike since he was a kid
Clare isn't in the Gaeltacht and it isn't an island
He doesn't drive a ministerial car
He's not involved in crime scene or tech bureau work
Flying makes him sick so that rules out air support
He's not great on boats either (bit of a land lover my hubby) :rolleyes:
PSV? Nope
Radio? Nope
Welfare Officer? Nope

The point has already been made that no one gets all of these allowances and not everyone gets some of them
I will say that most officers do work unsocial hours and get that allowance but the Garda surgeon has stated that my OH cannot and therefore he doesn't (Bar exceptional circumstances)

I have stated this before but my husband sustained a serious injury at work while he was in the DMA thanks to some of the wonderful residents of a particular area of the inner city, he came way too close for comfort to actually dying or being paralysed due to the nature of the injury that the scrotes gave him
That is one of the reasons why I will ALWAYS fight tooth & nail for every penny the Gardai earn and that is something very few civilians understand

As regards the pension I am fairly sure it was in this thread that i dissected those figures

angelfire9

strobe wrote: »

Sell it and buy an 00 1.0l Nissan Micra with the money?

My husband is 6ft tall and built like a tank so that wouldn't work!
He cannot fit comfortably into my Fiesta with the seats fully extended

(Before any of ye jump on the second car my Fiesta is owned by me outright and all expenses related to it i.e. insurance, tax, servicing & petrol are paid for by my father who is unfortunately unable to drive anymore and I therefore drive him everywhere and he pays for my car in return)

angelfire9

k_mac wrote: »

I would welcome a chance to look at some calculations for the cost of the pension. I have seen many estimates but no actual workings and very little which includes the pension levy.

K_mac I'm disappointed


I spent about an hour dissecting the pension figures for someone (possibly Offy) about 20 pages back
Did you not read my beautifully professionally prepared set of figures for the pension (which by the way came out no where near the figures being bandied about on the media)

hellboy99

Do Gardai not get a mileage allowance?

Anyway back on topic, is the Garda that owes a loan of €750,000 to St Raphael's Garda Credit Union one of the struggling 120? and what about the other 19 they are currently pursuing, in all a total of €3,000,000 is at stake that the Credit Union is looking to get back.

angelfire9

hellboy99 wrote: »

Do Gardai not get a mileage allowance?

Anyway back on topic, is the Garda that owes a loan of €750,000 to St Raphael's Garda Credit Union one of the struggling 120? and what about the other 19 they are currently pursuing, in all a total of €3,000,000 is at stake that the Credit Union is looking to get back.

No one gets mileage for driving to and from work that would be illegal under the rules for benefit in kind as laid down by revenue

I sincerely doubt the member owing €750k to the CU is of a rank below Super so he wouldn't be one of the 120
Furthermore the €3 million figure is owed by a large number of members as I understood it unless u have a link??

end a eknny

angelfire9 wrote: »

No one gets mileage for driving to and from work that would be illegal under the rules for benefit in kind as laid down by revenue

I sincerely doubt the member owing €750k to the CU is of a rank below Super so he wouldn't be one of the 120
Furthermore the €3 million figure is owed by a large number of members as I understood it unless u have a link??

talk about getting milage a garda lives across the road from me and every time i pass the squad car is parked at the house

greenoverred

angelfire9 wrote: »

K_mac I'm disappointed


I spent about an hour dissecting the pension figures for someone (possibly Offy) about 20 pages back
Did you not read my beautifully professionally prepared set of figures for the pension (which by the way came out no where near the figures being bandied about on the media)

Sorry Angel. Ive looked for this but cant find it. I dont know much about how pensions are calculated and am very curious as to how they come up with these figures.

Take for example the €50000 salary discussed in this thread. Colm McCarthy says it would take 48% of salary to pay for the pension. This would be €24000. So if I put €24000 into deposit account each year at say an interest rate of 3.5% I would have a sum of €1,343,010.95. Now surely this would be a lot better then the pension. What am I missing

hellboy99 wrote: »

Do Gardai not get a mileage allowance?

Anyway back on topic, is the Garda that owes a loan of €750,000 to St Raphael's Garda Credit Union one of the struggling 120? and what about the other 19 they are currently pursuing, in all a total of €3,000,000 is at stake that the Credit Union is looking to get back.

Hardly. I suspect the reason the CU is after them is because they are not paying back loans.

angelfire9

end a eknny wrote: »

talk about getting milage a garda lives across the road from me and every time i pass the squad car is parked at the house

Urban or rural area?

angelfire9

greenoverred wrote: »

Sorry Angel. Ive looked for this but cant find it. I dont know much about how pensions are calculated and am very curious as to how they come up with these figures.

Take for example the €50000 salary discussed in this thread. Colm McCarthy says it would take 48% of salary to pay for the pension. This would be €24000. So if I put €24000 into deposit account each year at say an interest rate of 3.5% I would have a sum of €1,343,010.95. Now surely this would be a lot better then the pension. What am I missing



Hardly. I suspect the reason the CU is after them is because they are not paying back loans.

I'll try and find the pension calculations cos I am NOT going to calculate it all again

danbohan

angelfire9 wrote: »

OK i've been away for about 2 hours and there have been so many comments to reply to



Firstly, the average pay quoted above of €67k includes the salary of the Commissioner, 2 Deputy Commissioners, 12 Assistant Commissioners, numerous Chief Superintendents and Supers who earn WAY AND ABOVE what the average member at the rank of Garda or Garda Sergeant earns
Secondly, the figures in 2008 would include overtime which is virtually non existent any more
Thirdly, the pay rates in 2008 were slashed in the budget introduced in 2009


So the average garda (rank of Garda or sergeant) is in not in fact earning anything close to €60k in 2011
The actual take home pay on a gross of €43,857 for a Garda with 11 years experience (down from €46,602 in 2008) is €29,396 per annum (after tax, PRSI, Pension, Pension Levy and USC) but before deductions like life cover, medical aid etc
FYI I lost my job in May of 2010 so I am well aware of the cut to pay that the unemployed have suffered!


What makes you think that ANYONE in that situation is not deserving of sympathy? Are the Gardai so hated in Ireland that everyone else deserves sympathy but Gardai do not?


You obviously did not read the headline:
Ex-garda landlord warned of 'serious consequences'
He is not a serving member so i really don't care if he gets his ass thrown in jail to be honest!



Firstly how do the gardai "Hammer the average joe soap tax payer"?

Secondly are you advocating vigilantism? :eek:


Hello again whiteonion
Wasn't it you who said that getting married or having kids means over extending yourself and that married people and/or parents have only themselves to blame if they are in financial difficulty? :rolleyes:

You stated earlier I believe that you are on a gross salary of €25k per annum and can save €900 per month
You went on to say that you take one annual holiday
When asked what you do with the remainder of your savings you didn't answer
When asked if you have a mortgage you didn't answer
When given detailed financial info for my household and asked to recommend savings you didn't answer

Any of ye like to answer me now?


[/I]

What makes you think that ANYONE in that situation is not deserving of sympathy? Are the Gardai so hated in Ireland that everyone else deserves sympathy but Gardai do not?

sympathy wont pay any bills , garda like everyone else in ireland better learn that A they were overpaid . B they over borrowed. C that the better get used to the new reality sooner than later .
been a policeman in most country's does not mean a life of luxury or that you are an extensive property holder . gardai should be extremely grateful that unlike a lot of people in the private sector they are in no immediate danger of losing their jobs

end a eknny

angelfire9 wrote: »

Urban or rural area?

rural whats your point

tayto lover

Angelfire9,

You are only wasting your time debating with this bunch. It is obvious to me that the ones who are not on the wind-up are either jealous or have an agenda of trying to get their own back on the Gardai because of previous history.
You have fought the brave fight and answered every query and criticism put forward by them. You have even caught out the bluffers.
You cannot get through to any of them and are wasting your time arguing because this rabble don't want the truth, they want revenge. Agenda. There are good and bad people in every section of workers and in Private and Public Sectors, i have worked in both.

You can bet your life though that when they are in trouble and need a Garda they will be on best behaviour, all sweet talk and niceties i.e. two-faced.

Take my advice and let it go.

angelfire9

danbohan wrote: »

What makes you think that ANYONE in that situation is not deserving of sympathy? Are the Gardai so hated in Ireland that everyone else deserves sympathy but Gardai do not?

sympathy wont pay any bills , garda like everyone else in ireland better learn that A they were overpaid . B they over borrowed. C that the better get used to the new reality sooner than later .
been a policeman in most country's does not mean a life of luxury or that you are an extensive property holder . gardai should be extremely grateful that unlike a lot of people in the private sector they are in no immediate danger of losing their jobs

I am well aware that sympathy doesn't pay bills if it did I wouldn't have to worry about the postman every week!
I do not agree that Gardai are overpaid
Certainly some over extended themselves but you'll get that in any way of life
Gardai borrowed money on the basis of their income that income has been slashed by up to 18% in some cases
There is only so many cuts a person can take, already there are senior members with their 30 done that are retiring early because they are getting sick of being the whipping boys
The idea that all Gardai live lives of luxury or have multiple properties is an exaggeration the VAST majority are not in that position and the sooner people grasp that fact the better for all concerned!

As for the continuous comparison with the unemployed our very own Offy told us he gets over €31k nett from social welfare per annum I know thatis the exception rather than the rule but the same can be said of rich cops!

end a eknny

tayto lover wrote: »

Angelfire9,

You are only wasting your time debating with this bunch. It is obvious to me that the ones who are not on the wind-up are either jealous or have an agenda of trying to get their own back on the Gardai because of previous history.
You have fought the brave fight and answered every query and criticism put forward by them. You have even caught out the bluffers.
You cannot get through to any of them and are wasting your time arguing because this rabble don't want the truth, they want revenge. Agenda. There are good and bad people in every section of workers and in Private and Public Sectors, i have worked in both.

You can bet your life though that when they are in trouble and need a Garda they will be on best behaviour, all sweet talk and niceties i.e. two-faced.

Take my advice and let it go.

what a load of rubbish the fact is that the gardai are paid too much they are crying about not having enough in the hope that they wont have to face cuts despite the country not having two pennies to rub together and the people who are still lucky enough to be in employment having taken major cuts. the gardai behaviour is based on pure arrogance and greed irrelevant of the quality of the service they provide as for the usual old line about being grateful to see them i can safely say that there never has been and never will be a situation where i will ever be glad to see a member of the gardai

hellboy99

angelfire9 wrote: »

I sincerely doubt the member owing €750k to the CU is of a rank below Super so he wouldn't be one of the 120
Furthermore the €3 million figure is owed by a large number of members as I understood it unless u have a link??

The €750 was a loan to buy a pub.

Figure and cases up till the end of 2009:

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=24961

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-credit-union-owed-nearly-83641m-by-defaulters-1885313.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/toxic-loans-tarnish-the--garda-credit-union-books-2007218.html

Current figure of €3 million owed:

http://gombeennation.blogspot.com/2011/01/st-raphaels-garda-credit-union-short-of.html

and it could be more:

http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/sinead-ryan/sinead-ryan-gardai-are-suffering-too-they-deserve-our-sympathy-2511337.html

angelfire9

end a eknny wrote: »

rural whats your point

I asked because it matters
Rural cops cover alot of territory and many small stations provide transport to their I/C because in rural stations not only do they drive crazy miles but rural folk tend to think their local cop is on duty 24/7 believe me I know!!
I sincerely doubt the squad car spends most of it's time outside his house unless he lives in the station but sure what's the harm in a bit of exaggeration this thread is full of it! :-)

angelfire9

hellboy99 wrote: »

The €750 was a loan to buy a pub.

I can't read the links as I'm on the phone
But
Gardai are specifically barred from holding liquor licences

tayto lover

end a eknny wrote: »

what a load of rubbish the fact is that the gardai are paid too much they are crying about not having enough in the hope that they wont have to face cuts despite the country not having two pennies to rub together and the people who are still lucky enough to be in employment having taken major cuts. the gardai behaviour is based on pure arrogance and greed irrelevant of the quality of the service they provide as for the usual old line about being grateful to see them i can safely say that there never has been and never will be a situation where i will ever be glad to see a member of the gardai

Just as i said.... an agenda. What did you get caught for?
But thanks for admitting it.

K-9

Are we at the quoting extreme examples and tarring all with the same brush, stage yet?

angelfire9

end a eknny wrote: »

what a load of rubbish the fact is that the gardai are paid too much they are crying about not having enough in the hope that they wont have to face cuts despite the country not having two pennies to rub together and the people who are still lucky enough to be in employment having taken major cuts. the gardai behaviour is based on pure arrogance and greed irrelevant of the quality of the service they provide as for the usual old line about being grateful to see them i can safely say that there never has been and never will be a situation where i will ever be glad to see a member of the gardai

Gardai have already taken massive cuts or did you miss that bit?

As for never needing the cops, I hope for your sake you're right

Gardai meet people on the worst day of their lives
I've had that knock on the door (when my husband was stabbed)
My parents got a 5am wake up call from the cops when my uncle was involved in a fatal RTA
I hope you're lucky enough to never need them I really do!

tayto lover

angelfire9 wrote: »

Gardai have already taken massive cuts or did you miss that bit?

As for never needing the cops, I hope for your sake you're right

Gardai meet people on the worst day of their lives
I've had that knock on the door (when my husband was stabbed)
My parents got a 5am wake up call from the cops when my uncle was involved in a fatal RTA
I hope you're lucky enough to never need them I really do!

Lets hope it never does happen to him but if it did he would do exactly as i said earlier, have no fears.

westendgirlie

angelfire9 wrote: »

I have shown the 2011 pay scales for engineers from recruitireland.com
http://www.recruitireland.com/careercentre/engineeringsurvey/
They show a massive disparity from the lowest paid (26k) to the highest paid (108k) if we take the average of all the salaries shown then the average engineer earns €53k per annum which is far in excess of the average Garda salary of €40k being bandied about

Is that €53k salary a fair reflection on what all engineers earn? Nope not at all it doesn't have to be because its an AVERAGE :rolleyes:
Get my point??

Sorry, I have to jump in at this point.

Have you ever used a recruitment agency? If not, please be advised that the majority of jobs they advertise are non-existent. It is just to entice you in and onto their books. This practice has been going on in the 20 yrs I have been an adult and I am sure a long time before.

With reference to the salaries you think the private sector earn, I have to tell you you are way over-estimating. I work in HR (construction based). If you have been lucky enough to keep hold of your job, the probability is you have taken pay cuts. Add lowering tax credits, usc, cwps contributions, etc then your in the same boat as Public Sector when it comes to deductions.

A graduate Mechanical Engineer can earn €300 pw/€15600 pa gross. Over 15yrs experience, expect the rate to be €600/€31200 gross. Don't expect to get any expenses when it comes to travel or wear and tear of boots. Buy your own hard hats and hi-vis vest.

I am sure the above would apply to all private sector fields not just construction.

To the poster who listed depreciation as an expense, methinks you are taking this info from your yearly financial accounts which begs the question, what is your real financial income??

Off to read the rest of the thread

end a eknny

tayto lover wrote: »

Lets hope it never does happen to him but if it did he would do exactly as i said earlier, have no fears.

i already said there is never a time when i would ever want or need the gardai thats just stating the facts you might not like them but that your problem im over forty have never needed them never been caught as you put it and never been in court. but i could give you a list of things about the gardai which i could list that have happened to me first hand and stories told to me by reliable people i trust, that would show the gardai up for what they truly are and most people who are not gardai or not married or related to one would sit thinking yes what a bunch of overpaid arrogant muppets

angelfire9

end a eknny wrote: »

i already said there is never a time when i would ever want or need the gardai thats just stating the facts you might not like them but that your problem im over forty have never needed them never been caught as you put it and never been in court. but i could give you a list of things about the gardai which i could list that have happened to me first hand and stories told to me by reliable people i trust, that would show the gardai up for what they truly are and most people who are not gardai or not married or related to one would sit thinking yes what a bunch of overpaid arrogant muppets

There have been quite alot of posts in this thread slagging off cops but you take the biscuit!
Talk about generalisations!

What an insult to the majority of Gardai who are hard working honest cops who do a job that generates more criticism than thanks

Post reported!

MagicSean

end a eknny wrote: »

i already said there is never a time when i would ever want or need the gardai thats just stating the facts you might not like them but that your problem im over forty have never needed them never been caught as you put it and never been in court. but i could give you a list of things about the gardai which i could list that have happened to me first hand and stories told to me by reliable people i trust, that would show the gardai up for what they truly are and most people who are not gardai or not married or related to one would sit thinking yes what a bunch of overpaid arrogant muppets

And for every story you tell I could give three which show the opposite.

Bosco boy

end a eknny wrote: »

i already said there is never a time when i would ever want or need the gardai thats just stating the facts you might not like them but that your problem im over forty have never needed them never been caught as you put it and never been in court. but i could give you a list of things about the gardai which i could list that have happened to me first hand and stories told to me by reliable people i trust, that would show the gardai up for what they truly are and most people who are not gardai or not married or related to one would sit thinking yes what a bunch of overpaid arrogant muppets

You'll ring if you need us and we'll be there for you when you do and you'll be damn glad!

westendgirlie

Bosco boy wrote: »

You'll ring if you need us and we'll be there for you when you do and you'll be damn glad!

You really are coming across as one of those Guards that thinks they are better than everyone else.

MagicSean

westendgirlie wrote: »

You really are coming across as one of those Guards that thinks they are better than everyone else.

He's simply stating a fact. Gardaí will come to the assistance of anyone who needs it, no matter what they've done before.

angelfire9

westendgirlie wrote: »

You really are coming across as one of those Guards that thinks they are better than everyone else.

Nope, he's stating a fact as K_mac said
If the Gardai are called to an incident they have to respond regardless of who is calling them for help be it a rapist, a murderer, a paedophile or a little old lady in a wheelchair

westendgirlie

k_mac wrote: »

He's simply stating a fact. Gardaí will come to the assistance of anyone who needs it, no matter what they've done before.

I disagree. His post oozed arrogance.

I hopefully won't have to encounter a time when I need the assistance of the guards. If I do it will obviously be because a crime has been committed against me. Will I be "Damn Glad" that a crime has been committed against me?