Leaders Debate part 2 :)

Koyasan

dedon wrote: »

There were in power and talked and talked but did nothing. They supported in Anglo Bail out. They voted and protected FF. Think they had their hand in plenty.

I really don't think a mod should be on here protecting them

According to Labour, FG and SF supported the Bailout. According to the second vote, all but Labour and SF supported the Bailout.

As for talking, it looks like the did a HELL of a lot more than talk. Here's a very short introduction to what they achieved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_EqyHKbMks

deanh

Balmed Out wrote: »

Oh for f**k sake I didnt know that. Have always voted fg. Will never vote sf. No respect for ff less for labour. My choice of who to vote for is defniately changed if this is true. I save for years decided in 04 house prices were stupidly high and sat on savings. Am i going to be punished for not being an idiot.

FF has already announced the cut in interest relief for first time buyers from 2012. FG are proposing to bring this forward to july 2011. This will pay to extend relief to those in negative equity.

goat2

ReacherCreature wrote: »

I'm liking Gormely's ideas of radical reformation of the political system.

dont get me started on the greens.some nights ago on vincent browne, ryan said that he did not know what he signed up to when he agreed with bank bailouts, so there, it was like buying a lollipop to him

lucernarian

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The debate wasn't great, but the discussion here was far worse.

I'd judge it a 5-way tie. Nobody messed up big-time, and that was what they each needed.

I'd broadly agree with that. Not sure why people regarded Gormley as such a clear winner on boards. He had some good moments but didn't always answer what he was asked and was more worried about "being honest" than actually answering the question at times. Of course, the other leaders were doing that and that's why I consider it a draw. Gerry Adams dealt with the audience's questions well but not perhaps very credibly. Same answers were recycled.

caseyann

caseyann wrote: »

Thats what contact us is for DeV,contact them and ask for the answers you want.http://www.sinnfein.ie/contact-us

Our core proposal is for a new universal public healthcare system for Ireland that provides care to all free at the point of delivery, on the basis of need alone, and funded from general fair and progressive taxation. We would establish a Health Funding Commission to help plan the transition to the new system.

“In the short term we would abolish prescription charges for medical card patients and introduce measures to reduce the cost of drugs by tackling waste and profiteering.

“We would restore Ministerial and Departmental responsibility for public health services, remove the excessive bureaucracy of the HSE and cap salaries at 100,000 euros.
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/20117

Adams did better than in '07 but his biggest flaw showed up again tonight and thats wheres the money coming from.
He hasn't told us because he talks his ideas but doesn't fund them ergo they can never work.
Please don't ask me to email SF hq for where the moneys going to come from. To have to do that is ridiculous.
The place for that answer is well in the public domain,like tonight on telly or any time they are asked.

See? Thats the biggest flaw,it's where the fantasy accusations come from.

RandolphEsq

Deleted User wrote: »

Adams did better than in '07 but his biggest flaw showed up again tonight and thats wheres the money coming from.
He hasn't told us because he talks his ideas but doesn't fund them ergo they can never work.
Please don't ask me to email SF hq for where the moneys going to come from. To have to do that is ridiculous.
The place for that answer is well in the public domain,like tonight on telly or any time they are asked.

See? Thats the biggest flaw,it's where the fantasy accusations come from.

Yes, anytime he had to come up with proper economical talk to back up what he was saying, he spoofed on about the good of the working man, the citizens, politicians taking a cut etc. Never once dealing with the question.

femur61

Deleted User wrote: »

Adams did better than in '07 but his biggest flaw showed up again tonight and thats wheres the money coming from.
He hasn't told us because he talks his ideas but doesn't fund them ergo they can never work.
Please don't ask me to email SF hq for where the moneys going to come from. To have to do that is ridiculous.
The place for that answer is well in the public domain,like tonight on telly or any time they are asked.

See? Thats the biggest flaw,it's where the fantasy accusations come from.

Kept saying we'll take from PRF but that has only 4.9bn left:eek:

golfball37

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I understand what you are saying.

However I will give you an example. MM asked Gerry Adams where he would get the "7 billion euro from as there is only 4.9 in the pension reserve fund". Now, in imo, Gerry doesn't know himself. So instead of admitting this (or making something up) his first response was to moan about how MM had been in government for 14 years etc to avoid answering.

He is right that they have and messed up big time, but he still is using it as an excuse not to answer a tough question which is the point I'm making.

Dan- I heard him say we won't be paying out the IMF interest and thats the rest of the 7bn.

golfball37

If experts like McWilliams and the ESRI are saying SF's economic plan adds up we question it but when the people who have ruined this country with their economic policies for the last 14 years say it they get more people believing them??:rolleyes:

Ireland really is a strange place. Whether SF's policy is desirable is what you should vote on? Nothing else ffs.

All of the major parties when laughing at SF forget that SF's policy doesn't have to budget for punative Interest repayments. Neraly every couple of billion shortfall ye all throw at SF can be made up by not paying this interest.

Zubeneschamali

golfball37 wrote: »

All of the major parties when laughing at SF forget that SF's policy doesn't have to budget for punative Interest repayments.

Right, because there isn't the faintest, vaguest, tiniest chance that SF will have to implement their policy, so the interest repayments are zero.

sparkling sea

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

The trick is not to analyse it in the sense of your own narrow prejudices but in how it will play out with the electorate.

Adams points will have resonated with people to some extent, Enda did very well for somebody expected to do rubbish, Gormley made some good points but didn't inspire anyone, Gormley started out well but failed badly on the whole and Martin has no credibility.

Interestingly the first analyst on Vincent Browne agrees with the above.

Adams points may very well resonate with people but Micheal Martins points to Adams about bank robbery(fraud) and acutally living in this country, the Republic of Ireland will also resonate with quite alot of people.

Can't agree here, Gormley (as much as I am disappointed with the Greens) was by far and away the best. Kenny came off well, but then he had set it up (by pretending he was running scard) so that people had expected him to preform badly- little was expected of him to begin with - but he did well.

Eamon Gilmore - whats happened to the man?

sparkling sea

golfball37 wrote: »

If experts like McWilliams and the ESRI are saying SF's economic plan adds up we question it but when the people who have ruined this country with their economic policies for the last 14 years say it they get more people believing them??:rolleyes:

But thats not actually what McWilliams said though is it - He says the fact that they want to default now, because we will default anyway is right. But there strategy after default is non existant and any soundbites they throw out after that are just soundbites - they don't have an actually economic policy baised on anything.

People question SF because they are a questionable party with a more questionable past then any other party.
Further the very austere measures that they critize being implemented in the Republic are almost identical to the ones they are implementing in government in Northern Ireland - Fianna Fail are not the only party of hypocrites in the election. Sinn Fein are equally if not more hypocritical. Both GA and MM seem to be able to distance themselves from the actual policies their parties implement.

ReacherCreature

goat2 wrote: »

dont get me started on the greens.some nights ago on vincent browne, ryan said that he did not know what he signed up to when he agreed with bank bailouts, so there, it was like buying a lollipop to him

Meh, not supporting the Greens, I just like Gormley's talk, whether he'll have the ability, chance to implement them is another discussion.

Rubik.

Pat Kenny gave some interesting insights to last nights debate on his radio show earlier. As stipulated by the party handlers, the audience(all of whom had to be undecided voters) were under strict instructions not to laugh, clap or boo during the debate.

caseyann

Adams weeded out every sneaky underhanded payment thats going out to the banks and every single lie they are throwing out there.
How much are they planning to pay banks in March?
And now everyone wants to use the pension fund for their ideas,but Gerry is delusional :rolleyes: Funny how their policies are all changing to SF ones.
And i am so sick of the media who are obviously dictating to Irish people who is a sure win, impeding on the right for the people to think for themselves.Controling it and then arranging another three way debate so no one else gets a voice I bet it is so they can polish up their lies a little more as they all will have hand on policies and purse strings if any of those three thieves get in.
Cant you see it??????

Zubeneschamali

caseyann wrote: »

Cant you see it??????

That RTE and the media hate Sinn Féin? Of course we can see it.

But we don't care, because we all hate Sinn Féin too!

caseyann

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That RTE and the media hate Sinn Féin? Of course we can see it.

But we don't care, because we all hate Sinn Féin too!

No that you are being dictated who to vote in

Zubeneschamali

caseyann wrote: »

No that you are being dictated who to vote in

They can't dictate to me, I decided to vote FG 24 years ago!

caseyann

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

They can't dictate to me, I decided to vote FG 24 years ago!

lol ok you stay with them
and no not all of us hate SF

Koyasan

goat2 wrote: »

dont get me started on the greens.some nights ago on vincent browne, ryan said that he did not know what he signed up to when he agreed with bank bailouts,

I hope Sinn Fein and Fine Gael didn't know either what they signed up to when they agreed with bank bailouts. SF did change eventually to be fair.

kellogscoffey

Koyasan wrote: »

I hope Sinn Fein and Fine Gael didn't know either what they signed up to when they agreed with bank bailouts. SF did change eventually to be fair.

The opposition parties were kinda bounced into supporting it. According to james Reilly from FG, they were told it was "a liquidity problem, rather than a solvency problem." The guarantee, although clearly proven disastrous, seemed
like the best option at the time. But it seemed to ignore the potential for the manky events in the banks that were still to come.

And SF voted against the bill, after supporting it initially, so I dunno what that says about anything :pac:

DeVore

The reasons they changed include: its a popular bandwagon and god knows they love them, along with the fact that since they wont get a sniff of power, they can say anything they like; they wont have to implement it.

DeV.

DeVore

the groutch wrote: »

looks like the 11th hour don't vet the texts, a text there saying RTE is a FF/FG station

Surely if they HAD vetted that tweet then they WOULD be a FF/FG station?


DeV.

goat2

that was a completely stage managed debate last night, the crowd were hand picked, the ministers were given an idea of the questions being put to them, so i would say it was like hearing poetery, have the lines at the ready, there were going to be no surprise questions, so it really was nothing

RandolphEsq

The very first man to ask a question was the most frustrating person to hear talking. He couldn't talk properly and he was supposed to be asking the first question. Ridiculous!

femur61

RandolphEsq wrote: »

The very first man to ask a question was the most frustrating person to hear talking. He couldn't talk properly and he was supposed to be asking the first question. Ridiculous!

Just because someone is not as erudite or as eloquent as you are you saying they entitled to have an opinion? Sorry, but shame on you for belittling someone else for not being confident at public speaking.

RandolphEsq

femur61 wrote: »

Just because someone is not as erudite or as eloquent as you are you saying they entitled to have an opinion? Sorry, but shame on you for belittling someone else for not being confident at public speaking.

Sorry but the audience were hand-picked. The questions and characters were given to the people. That man didn't really make a point, Pat Kenny had to make it for him. Since it was all scripted on the part of the audience, you'd think they'd avoid getting somebody who struggles to speak. It's possible he forgot the question though.