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Navan Rail Line

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    i will believe it when i see a pic of track actually being laid, until then it's just another promise to reopen a line that should have been opened in the 2000s or earlier.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    You would never know anything is possabile. Say the next election FF and FG are looking for TDs to support them you could see peader Tobin throw his princples out the window if he was able to say he delivered the rail line as he is always going on about the rail line.

    Is the route still going to be the same as the last time they talked about it or would it be changed to take account of where the population is?



  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Ronald Binge Redux


    Dempsey Delivers - thirty two years late! Let banjos brang out with joy!



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Is that the same strategy that they publish every 5 years because none of it is ever built?


    Actually that's not fair the strategy is different in the sense that it's less ambitious every time they republish it, the 2001 version was same as current but included metro west and a metro line from Tallaght to the City Centre. We've regressed somewhat in 20 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    In a serious note the high frequency DART service to Dunboyne will be very lightly used given the small population between the M3 and Clonsilla, extending to Navan is the only rational decision but we need a government that's serious about rail, I'm not convinced we have that yet but there are some positive signs.



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Have you seen the scale of building at Hansfield and FCCs plans for the area? The new roads to open up more land are slowly in progress now



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    There will be no issues with usage to M3 Parkway as the population is growing significantly in the area. Extending to Navan wouldn’t change much east of M3PW anyway, the frequency would have to drop west of it or you'd require a huge number of trains to maintain frequency all the way to Navan.

    If new services are to be on the old alignment, there is no population between M3PW and Navan, better just having it a dedicated commter service rather than DART. If by some miracle the money was available to build a rail line to Navan, it is unlikely to justify the cost of electrification anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    There is only 3km between Ratoath and Dunboyne a station between the two would be ideal as people could walk/Cycle to the station if the infastructure was in place. The track also needs to pick up Johnstown or its a waste of time



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Let's face it, any transport strategy for Dublin isn't worth the paper it's printed on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    I think any new lines have to be electric - Europe has had almost entirely electric lines for decades.

    Is the old railway line still there? Very hard to see it on Google maps. Would an entirely new alignment be needed or considered?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Large sections of the old alignment are gone such that a new alignment should be explored. I can't see how reinstating the old alignment would be viable given the lack of population, a new alignment serving Dunshaughlin makes more sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Is there any development restrictions between Navan & M3 park and ride similar to what they had for the eastern bypass?



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    I don't know Navan but it looks like the a new line would need to approach from the eastern side to have a station in the centre. The old alignment curves into Navan the wrong way, as such.

    A new alignment to the east of Dunshaughlin would benefit Rathoath and even Emerald (Tayto) Park with a local bus route.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The way Dunshauglin and Navan are expanding they would want to secure a route sooner than later



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Dunboyne to city centre is being electrified anyway, it makes no sense to create a new deisel extension of an existing electric railway. A future navan extension should be electric from the start. The new DART rolling stock can do 140kmh so no reason to not just extend some services all the way to Navan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭jlang


    Any future decision to rebuild the Meath/Navan line would presumably be made along or as a result of a political decision to favour further densification/development in the area and effectively promote the expansion of "Dublin" in this direction. Which might not suit those who are calling for the line to be built.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I was assuming that electrification wasn't being factored in but at €750m it probably is.

    I was responding to your claim that "the high frequency DART service to Dunboyne will be very lightly used given the small population between the M3 and Clonsilla, extending to Navan is the only rational decision". By the time DART+W is completed, the population between the M3 and Clonsilla will be considerable and will justify a high frequency service. Extending to Navan may be desirable in its own right but the case for it certainly wont be built on a lack of population between the M3 and Clonsilla. In reality, the lack of population is west of M3PW. The problem Navan rail will have is justifying its cost if it is built on the old alignment because it travels through 30km of fields with no population to serve.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I think the best option would be a new alignment, skirting around the estern edge of the town and joining the Drogheda line and using those existing tracks to get into the centre of Navan. You could then have new stations on that side of the town, where most of the expansion is happening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    If they really wanted to get Navan served by rail they could very easily and quickly just introduce services on the Navan-Drogheda line. I'm sure they'll say it's impossible in the way services through PPT are impossible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,692 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    for nearly a billion euro (I'm sure the final price will be north of a billion) what will we be getting, a train every 15 mins? What's proposed for M3 under the Maynooth DART proposals, presumably some/all of those services will be extended to Navan?

    As mentioned above, if you have a relatively high frequency service you would need to develop the towns along the line to ensure usage levels, & if you're not providing a frequent service, what's the point in spending a billion euros.

    Rail Users Ireland had a proposal for this many years ago. They estimated a 80 minute journey time to Connolly with a small number of stops, but you'd be quite limited by the availability of paths on the northern line. I think Navan politicians and campaigners are lukewarm on this idea as they feel it would reduce the case for rebuilding the direct line.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    It's not impossible, just impractical, would take too long.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,532 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    With the 10 minute DART there are no spare paths, especially with the plan for an hourly Enterprise.

    So you’re looking at probably 90 mins journey time or so and using one of the existing Drogheda commuter services which are already very busy.

    The northern line is not an option for Navan as it would be too slow and the capacity isn’t there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 FrankLeeSpeaking


    See that is the issue. Yes build it now! But the politicians will find every reason not to. I have always found it staggering that a town the size of Navan and a commuter town of Dublin has two rail lines and neither have a passenger service to be nuts!



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 FrankLeeSpeaking


    Construstion to start on a rail line in nearly a decade from now that is more or less in-tact. What a joke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    actually the section from m3 parkway to navan isn't intact, all of that route was lifted in full from clonsilla to navan after closure.

    m3 parkway nor the m3 existed of course when the line was originally closed and ripped up.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Less than 10 years is not to bad when you consider all the hoops you have to jump through such as planning and route selection, Public consultaion, tendering and construction



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,016 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Maybe another way to look at this would be to say that the inland route from Navan to Clonsilla would allow options to run some services from Drogheda via Navan and Clonsilla to Dublin? D15 is a trip generator itself. Just a thought.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    It won't even have planning approval in 10 years, nevermind be operational. The whole thing is a cod.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭Consonata


    That it runs through fields for ages might not be the worst thing. Smart policy would be to run the line out with the Government buying up land around stations in areas with low density, and lease it out for mid rise development, allowing for (relatively) cheap housing with access to a train ride of 30 mins to Dublin City Centre.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Sounds like a silly policy that encourages long commutes of 40km or more when the 15 minute city is the overarching policy which is much more sensible for obvious reasons. There is still large scale dereliction and poor land utilisation in Dublin. A proper planning policy could see 3 million people comfortably live within the M50 if we got rid of derelict and semi derelict industrial estates, golf courses ( yes no joking there are literally golf courses inside the M50), and of course rows upon rows of vacant buildings.

    Navan and Dublin should of course be connected by rail, but urbanisation of green fields far from the city in a country that has so much dereliction in existing urban areas is a silly act of environmental destruction, humans have more than sufficient living space in existing urban areas.



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