Navan Rail Line

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120893881#Comment_120893881

Reading the report now, and the recommended Cavan line looks to connect to Portadown, not Dublin.

I have to say, while some of it sounds excellent, I have lowered my expectations of even a small bit of this getting done.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120893881#Comment_120893881

Not so according to the report. It'll be Mullingar to Portadown.

Geuze

If the line to Navan is 25 kV AC, and the DART+ to Maynooth is 1500 V DC, how will that work?

bk

Trains can be built to use both. It adds cost and complexity, but not unusual.

spacetweek

Portrush-Athlone via Cavan will never happen. To rural and too few passengers.

pigtown

Irish Rail are advertising for a project manager to lead this project

Paddico

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120895010#Comment_120895010

Where was the map/diagram taken from

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108853#Comment_121108853

The All Island Rail Review.

marno21

IE looking for for multi disciplinary consultants to get the Navan Rail project from project scope through to construction

https://www.etenders.gov.ie/epps/cft/prepareViewCfTWS.do?resourceId=2451825

Estimated value 45 million euro.

Seems pretty big.

Ronald Binge Redux

"...concepts and route options will be developed in accordance with the latest NTA Project Assessment Guidelines."

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160292#Comment_121160292

When have the NTA ever followed their own guidelines?

Bsharp

A depressing thought that a good proportion of €45m will be spent on person hours writing report after report.

The delivery process needs to go through a cost effectiveness review, such a waste of resources and adds to the timelines.

Even a transport scheme worth a few million has 25+ reports these days.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121161730#Comment_121161730

That tender is for consultants to undertake the necessary works involved at each project stage, so developing a scope and preliminary Business Case at initial stages, designing and planning documents later, etc. Any reports which are done are specifically required and without them the project can not proceed.

The pointless reports are the likes of the AIRR which have no standing and are not required for any official purpose. They are only done for political reasons.

Bsharp

I'm only too aware of the reports needed and why. However, the 'why' is a construct officials have created over time; and its lost the run of itself. We'll have built feck all by 2030 because we've tied ourselves up in knots.

Doesn't have to be that way. Work across EU countries and there's much better pragmatism to be had.

For example we've got NTA Project Appraisal Guidelines, National Investment Framework in Transport Infrastructure, NTA Project Management Guidelines, Irish Rail Project Management Guidelines and Transport Appraisal Framework to name a few. They all require reports, gateways to pass, and review processes to follow. They don't always align which creates plenty of opportunity for delay, as agreement is sought on how to safely navigate the course through the sea of ambiguity.

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121161730#Comment_121161730

This is all done on purpose. It is not ineffeciency. It is a subbtle form of passive corruption. The day will come - probably following a catastrophic financial collapse - when people were ask why billions were spent on all this rail development and only consultants reports to show for it. Then the truth will come out that the politicans (by then dead or running art galleries in Key West) will have used all the money to pay off their buddies with no intention of actually building anything.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we keep to the Navan rail line as the topic here.

Plenty of other threads to rail against the hopeless politicians and their love of neat bookshelves filled with dusty reports going back decades showing wonderful improvements planned, but never implemented, by their predecessors and possibly themselves.

We must be coming up to the centenary of the first of those reports on those shelves. They must be groaning under the weight of so many of them.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168158#Comment_121168158

As someone who worked in private consultancy for many years I can state with as much certainty as the sky is blue, this is 100% untrue, there is no corrupt relationship between politicians and transport planning consultants. The whole industry is quite simply beyond the area of understanding of TDs/failed primary school teachers,

Excessive paperwork in Ireland is not a highly elaborate conspiracy, there are far easier ways to scam a few bob and on much simpler levels. Look closer to accommodation and food providers if you want to find corruption

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168550#Comment_121168550

I would agree with all of that.

It is so easy for a politician to authorise a consultancy report that costs a few bob rather that authorise a project that will cost a few million. The Minister then can quote that something has been done, when in fact nothing has been done.

I doubt the politicians could survive a scandal if it turned out the consultant was a brother-in-law or some other relative. Anyway, why bother - the report is commissioned, then there is the leak of the draft, then the launch of the report. Look, RTE managed to launch half a dozen investigations following the Tubs affair and nothing heard since.

Edit Typo

DoctorPan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168158#Comment_121168158

Considering the size of some of consultants involved, I doubt the likes of Arup, Atkins or AECOM would need Irish backhanders considering the reputational damage that could result in more losses then gains.

Sam Russell

Mod : Can we get back on track, please.

Pete_Cavan

The point of reports required under project execution guidelines is to avoid corruption. The intention is to prevent the Minister sanctioning a project, or a particular version of a project, which is beneficial to them but is not the best use of taxpayers money. It's all about governance and having a clear methodology behind decisions made.

An initial scoping document is required to assess options and select the most favourable option based on multiple criteria. Then the selected option moves through its design as the various alternatives under that chosen option are considered and budget refined. You also have the Public Spending Code and need to be able to justify spending the money proposed.

Like I said, reports under project execution guidelines are not the ones which are the waste of money (these are the baseline surveys, cost analysis, EIAs, etc. which are necessary for delivering the project. The ones that sit on shelves are the likes of the AIRR which don't feed into or reduce the workload in the delivery of any actual project.

fionnsci

I'm not familiar with Navan, is there existing space in and around the town for a town centre station and for the rail line to run through (without significant CPO and demolition)?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190439#Comment_121190439

There is an extant railway line (with derelict railway station) through Navan as it is, not right in the town centre but very much within the town.

This isn't what's going to reopen, but the intent is to use the nearly unimpeded, closed in the 60s, alignment to join that line, have a station at the join and a station North of Navan on the present-but-derelict Kingscourt alignment (this was still in use in the 00s and is becoming a greenway beryond Navan)

rubberdungeon

🛤️

L1011

Revision to the Natura paperwork on the DART+ West railway order, doesn't change the Navan setup at all.

spacetweek

Not sure why that long hard to read Bord Pleanala document was posted.

ArcadiaJunction

This document has nothing to do with Navan at all.

Consonata

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/meath/news/government-bosses-under-fire-over-funding-fears-linked-to-re-opening-of-meath-railway-line/a1906421923.html

Ryan saying Navan to be running by 2033, seems rather optimistic but pleased to hear it. "Provided funding is met" I.e the 30bn hole in the transport budget, is doing a lot of work.

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121750928#Comment_121750928

A mountain of absolute lies by another generation of utterly horrible and useless Irish politicans.

Ronald Binge Redux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752379#Comment_121752379

There will be another generation of bus obsessed tw*ts who will claim if only they can tweak bus services enough then demand will be fully satisfied. Rinse and repeat adinfinitum.