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Navan Rail Line

  • 07-02-2011 5:08pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭✭✭ coolmangg


    I have created a map of where I think the Navan Rail Line should go!
    I cannot understand why the planners insist on passing to the west of Dunshaughlin when if they go to the east they can pick up additional passengers from Ratoath / Ashbourne thus increasing revenue/viability.

    Also an easterly approach to Navan will allow them to use the existing Boyne bridge viaduct, and give access to a central station there.

    See my map here.

    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=53.547652,-6.459274&spn=0.390839,0.837021&z=11


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 78,208 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    I'm only seeing a plain google map.

    The problem with crossing the M3 is that it will add hugely tot he cost, as will sending it through the hills around Skreen. http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,695788,760511,4,1


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ dowlingm


    I'd like to see consideration of an incremental approach - a phase 2A to Dunshaughlin or Kilmessan with crossing the Boyne left to phase 2B. In the short term this could be single and loop like the Midleton spur.

    If it insisted on that Navan be part of the next phase it may not happen for a decade or more unless IE is allowed to count operating efficiencies such as basing Navan trains in Drogheda Depot and deadheading them over the Slane line rather than dispatching them from Connolly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 BrianD


    It makes no odds if it goes west or east. The additional time taken by road to travel to a point west of Dunshaughlin is immaterial.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,208 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    dowlingm wrote: »
    If it insisted on that Navan be part of the next phase it may not happen for a decade or more unless IE is allowed to count operating efficiencies such as basing Navan trains in Drogheda Depot and deadheading them over the Slane line rather than dispatching them from Connolly.
    They are proposing to stable a number of trains at Navan. These can be swapped during the day with trains from Drogheda. they only need to go "home" every few days.
    BrianD wrote: »
    It makes no odds if it goes west or east. The additional time taken by road to travel to a point west of Dunshaughlin is immaterial.
    And if people want to walk or cycle to the station?

    That said, for the tends of millions saved by not making the detour, a nice shuttle bus can be provided.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ dowlingm


    Victor wrote: »
    They are proposing to stable a number of trains at Navan.
    Thanks. I hope there will be a crew base too and not a Rosslare like fiasco with taxis.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 BrianD


    Victor wrote: »
    They are proposing to stable a number of trains at Navan. These can be swapped during the day with trains from Drogheda. they only need to go "home" every few days.
    And if people want to walk or cycle to the station?

    That said, for the tends of millions saved by not making the detour, a nice shuttle bus can be provided.

    Even if east of Dunshaughlin, it is still probably impractical for cyclists from Ashbourne. Ideal is link bus route.

    I have seen proposed routes that show the line almost zig zagging back and forth between Dunshaughlin and Ashbourne. This is not very practical and very expensive.

    The problem is that a route like this can't be 'all things to all men'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭✭✭ coolmangg


    Sorry don't know why that link is not working, try again
    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=203718849652007389080.00049bb2813c34a0cd854&ll=53.522758,-6.433868&spn=0.380455,0.672913&z=11

    Something that does not seem to be considered when using the argument that to cross the M3 would cost too much. The line as it is proposed now will have to pass below the Trim rd adjacent to the southern M3 toll plaza as well as the R125 Dunshaughlin - Trim Rd Link. No facilitation for these has been left in the M3 accommodation works. So to pass the train line here will cost lots also!

    Also land has to be purchased as the line enters Navan which is not ideal.

    I know it is a little late for this type of comment however it is frustrating that nobody else explores these options.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 Judgement Day


    I'm confused, you're all talking as if the railway is going to be extended to Navan - I don't think so! With an FG hairshirt government coming in the extension of railway lines anywhere is most unlikely. Tell me I'm wrong.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 DWCommuter


    I'm confused, you're all talking as if the railway is going to be extended to Navan - I don't think so! With an FG hairshirt government coming in the extension of railway lines anywhere is most unlikely. Tell me I'm wrong.


    Even if FF stayed in Government and Dempsey hung around, it still wouldn't be built. One for the future maybe, but unfortunately we'll need a ****load of housing development along its route to make it pay.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    Noel Dempsey promised it would be finished and open in 2004 ( back in 1999) and of course Noels word was always the gold standard in Irish Politics :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11 c_donno


    coolmangg wrote: »
    Sorry don't know why that link is not working, try again
    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=203718849652007389080.00049bb2813c34a0cd854&ll=53.522758,-6.433868&spn=0.380455,0.672913&z=11

    Something that does not seem to be considered when using the argument that to cross the M3 would cost too much. The line as it is proposed now will have to pass below the Trim rd adjacent to the southern M3 toll plaza as well as the R125 Dunshaughlin - Trim Rd Link. No facilitation for these has been left in the M3 accommodation works. So to pass the train line here will cost lots also!

    Also land has to be purchased as the line enters Navan which is not ideal.

    I know it is a little late for this type of comment however it is frustrating that nobody else explores these options.

    It was explored and there are a number of reasons this route was chosen.

    • This option was explored by IE and it was decided that it would be better to stick to as close to the same route as the old line as it caused much less disruption to land and roads.
    • The topography of the landscape along your route and through Skryne and the Tara valley again is unfeasible as alot of cutting and filling would be required to get the track level. Remember trains cant climb tracks like cars can climb roads.
    • If the train went that side of Dunsaughlin to pick up Ratoath and ashbourne what would happen to all the cachement area between Batterstown to Trim??
    • Financially it costs much less to go by the old route as they can use existing bridges in a good few locations. They already have the bridge to cross the Boyne, estimated to save them 4 million.

    According to an IE engineer it will cost circa 400 million to reopen the line including all the C.P.Os involved. Now i know that the country is smashed and im sure this project wouldnt be in alot of the incoming politicians agendas but sure what other infrastructure projects can the afford to go at?? Metro north estimated to be 5 billion, the Dublin underground?? No chance, The line to Navan would be built for the price of the consultants that would be used to advize on these projects.... so in my opinion it may still be a slight possibility that this could go ahead.....

    Emphasis on the slight......


  • Registered Users Posts: 742 ✭✭✭ GeneHunt


    Sorry for resurrecting a nine year old thread, but I want to link to a article on the Meath Chronicle or see below.
    Transport Minister confirms review of Navan rail line feasibility will happen next year

    The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport has confirmed that a review into the feasibility of a Dublin-Navan rail line is being fast-tracked and will take place next year.

    Speaking at today's Cabinet meeting on the Government's 'Future Jobs Ireland' initiative which was held in the OPW offices in Trim, Minister Shane Ross said the review of the much sought after rail corridor was being brought forward. His comments were endorsed by Taoiseach Leo Varadkar who said he wanted to see more carriages and frequency on the trains that would also serve his constituency in Dublin West.

    Responding to a question from the Meath Chronicle, Minister Ross said he was aware that the National Transport Authority had briefed Meath County Council just last week on the matter where they indicated that a review would begin in late 2020 and be completed by mid 2021 as part of the National Transport Strategy.

    "I've been speaking to at least two of your local representatives, Regina Doherty and Damien English about that and that review has been brought forward and will take place in 2020."

    Taoiseach Leo Varadkar added that he had a "parochial interest" in the issue as trains that started in Pace and pick up in Dunboyne also stopped in his consituency of Dublin West adding that he wanted to see the line extended and made more frequent. He said he welcomed the news that a feasibility review was to take place in 2020.

    The Taoiseach acknowledged Minister Shane Ross' announcement this week that €1bn in funding for major rail infrastructure over the next five years had been secured and the impact that would have on commuter train capacity. "I know for my constituents in Dublin West who regularly face getting on trains full with people coming from Meath and Kildare that they'll be welcoming that investment too."

    Minister Regina Doherty said: "We've been looking for this for a long time. I have to say we were probably somewhat disappointed when it wasn't included in the Project Ireland 2040 plan but Damien (English, Helen (McEntee) and myself as well as all the local representatives from the county have been lobbying hard to get that review brought forward on the basis that we are building thousands of houses in our county and inviting thousands of families to come and live in this beautiful place but they do have to have access to public transport that is reliable. So the review next year, I have no doubt, will prove the feasibility of that train to Dunshaughlin and Dunsany and Navan and I look forward to being here hopefully when it starts."

    At last week's monthly Meath Co Council meeting several councillors were sharply critical about the progress being made on restoration of the rail line. Navan Mayor Cllr Tommy Reilly said that the NTA officials and the Minister should come to Navan early in the morning to see what it takes to try to get to Dublin. "A review of transport strategy was very little use to people who were being forced to leave their homes and families in the early hours of the morning in order to get to work on time.

    More in Tuesday's Meath Chronicle.

    Was there not a feasibility study done before on the Navan rail line??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭ Lord Glentoran


    GeneHunt wrote: »
    Sorry for resurrecting a nine year old thread, but I want to link to a article on the Meath Chronicle or see below.



    Was there not a feasibility study done before on the Navan rail line??

    In retrospect, the Navan rail line proposal looks to have been an elaborate trick to get funding for the M3 and for estate agents to fool people into buying houses in Navan.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    A great day for manufacturers and suppliers of ink, paper and filing cabinets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,208 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    GeneHunt wrote: »
    Was there not a feasibility study done before on the Navan rail line??
    Yes, but it wasn't published.

    However, if it really only serves Navan, is following the original line the best thing to do? Might a 'higher speed' route between the two blue lines be better?

    497251.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭ AngryLips


    Is there an election on the way?


  • Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ ncounties


    Victor wrote: »
    Yes, but it wasn't published.

    However, if it really only serves Navan, is following the original line the best thing to do? Might a 'higher speed' route between the two blue lines be better?

    497251.png

    A route between those lines would require tunneling within the M50. I would say extending it on from M3 Parkway (as was the original plan) with a spur to Ashbourne would ultimately be cheaper than this proposal. Still pie in the sky stuff - don't think it'll ever be extended to Navan in my life time (and I'm 29!).


  • Registered Users Posts: 742 ✭✭✭ GeneHunt


    Victor wrote: »
    Yes, but it wasn't published.

    However, if it really only serves Navan, is following the original line the best thing to do? Might a 'higher speed' route between the two blue lines be better?

    497251.png

    Considering the fiasco the UK are at with HS2, I wouldn't even suggest that here. :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 742 ✭✭✭ GeneHunt


    ncounties wrote: »
    A route between those lines would require tunneling within the M50. I would say extending it on from M3 Parkway (as was the original plan) with a spur to Ashbourne would ultimately be cheaper than this proposal. Still pie in the sky stuff - don't think it'll ever be extended to Navan in my life time (and I'm 29!).

    Or in your children's, children's life time :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,208 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    ncounties wrote: »
    I would say extending it on from M3 Parkway (as was the original plan) with a spur to Ashbourne would ultimately be cheaper than this proposal.
    Not much use for Belfast trains. :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 742 ✭✭✭ GeneHunt


    If we were serious about infrastructure (or anything) in this country, we should have had a route included next to the M3 with the bridges constructed as part of the M3 contract, but that would mean this country would have jointed up thinking and that will never happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,344 ✭✭✭✭ loyatemu


    GeneHunt wrote: »
    If we were serious about infrastructure (or anything) in this country, we should have had a route included next to the M3 with the bridges constructed as part of the M3 contract, but that would mean this country would have jointed up thinking and that will never happen.

    I think at least one bridge was included in the M3 project to accommodate the future reopening of the rail line.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    loyatemu wrote: »
    I think at least one bridge was included in the M3 project to accommodate the future reopening of the rail line.

    One was hacked in at the last minute and will require a huge length of the rail alignment either side to be dropped cause trains don't climb hills


    The junction at Dunboyne has the most obvious works to accommodate the headshunt but I think that's it


  • Registered Users Posts: 742 ✭✭✭ GeneHunt


    L1011 wrote: »
    One was hacked in at the last minute and will require a huge length of the rail alignment either side to be dropped cause trains don't climb hills


    The junction at Dunboyne has the most obvious works to accommodate the headshunt but I think that's it

    which bridge is that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,208 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    GeneHunt wrote: »
    which bridge is that?

    You can just make out the blocked-up ends either side of the M3 here: https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.6161733,-6.6713259,116m/data=!3m1!1e3 - they look like square brackets ] [ about 70 metres west of the overbridge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 742 ✭✭✭ GeneHunt


    wow, I never noticed that before!

    thanks for that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭ tallaghtfornia


    GeneHunt wrote: »
    wow, I never noticed that before!

    thanks for that.

    Going a bit stupid here - I can’t notice that at all is it on the left and side of the overpass ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭ tallaghtfornia


    I see it now apologies ��


  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭ ohographite


    Was this railway double track or single track?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭ tallaghtfornia


    Clonsilla to Navan was originally a double track - think it was shortened to single before closure


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