Sky Sports presenters making sexist comments

fatmammycat

Silverfish wrote: »

He was in work though, he made comments before AND during the match, just not on the mic. It wasn't private either as there were other people present.

As well as studio staff, sound engineers and so on.

fatmammycat

Laisurg wrote: »

I don't think they should of lost they're jobs for it, if a woman made a joke about men on tv would she lose her job? No, of course not, nobody would think anything of it.

This is a business decision made by SKY, I am certain there are a number of reasons Gray has been cannedapart from this. But if a woman made a stupid sexist or racist remark and her company sacked her, would you defend her so readily?

ztoical

Raze_them_all wrote: »

If it was off air and just recorded by someone as it seems to be then yeah he does at it was his personal opinion outside of work and the company cannot hold him liable for a private conversation.

They were sat in the studio therefore they are in work. If you work in office and at your desk but its your lunch break and you start a rant that goes againist the companies code of conduct you can be held accountable for said rant. If you leave the office on your lunch break and go into the park down the road and have your rant you'd prob get decked by some passing local but your not accoutnable to your job for your actions outside of the company.

On air talent are in work from the moment they arrive at the studio not just when the cameras are rolling...had they made the comments in reception, in make-up, in the green room, or in the edit suit makes no difference, they weren't down the pub, they weren't at home they were in work.

Ickle Magoo

Raze_them_all wrote: »

If it was off air and just recorded by someone as it seems to be then yeah he does at it was his personal opinion outside of work and the company cannot hold him liable for a private conversation.

Are you suggesting he's only a Sky employee while his mic is turned on? Sky could easily argue he was causing them embarrassment and bringing their corporate name into disrepute. Presumably he wasn't at the match being interviewed on his day off? He was there in a professional capacity and as such could be viewed as a representative of the peeps that pay his wages...I've yet to see a story about it that hasn't mentioned he's a Sky commentator - even before any disciplinary action was taken.

parker kent

LittleBook wrote: »

Why do some people talk about football like it's rocket science and difficult to understand??

Oh wait ... I just remembered what started this thread.

In fairness there are plenty of men on Boards who talk about football and are pretty clueless about it! Read the Soccer forum and you would notice that!

As for Andy Gray and Richard Keys, I think Sky have been forced into a corner. What they said is obviously unacceptable. But to be sacked for something that was said off-air is a little unlucky. But he is a busted flush and had to go from a business perspective. He has lost all credibility. The Charlotte Jackson incident could easily be written off as banter if it were an isolated incident between friends/colleagues etc (although her reaction did suggest she was not too amused and I have seen her on the receiving end of similar on-air remarks too). But it is a sign that people will continue to produce such clips whilst he was still at Sky, so he had to go to save Sky from further embarrassment. Although I am pretty sure I had seen that clip before as an "amusing" outtake. So it is not a "leak".

The conspiracy theories are very far-fetched. Until the weekend, Gray was the cornerstone of Sky's coverage. They were not going to change that because he has a lawsuit against a company with links to Sky. They are not going to stop showing Sienna Miller films or Alex Ferguson due to the same series of lawsuits. Sky are not the News of the World, they just have links further up the chain. They are just two parts of massive empire. Murdoch has little to no involvement with Sky Sports. Sure Sky Sports and Sky News are separate and have been at loggerheads over this issue. It is a business decision because Gray has become a liability, pure and simple.

Keys does only appear in one clip and has made the phone call to Sian Massey, so he has made some attempt to address the situation. So he may be able to survive. But again there are credibility issues and his comments about Brady are worse in my view as there is no way they can be written off as ill-judged joking.

On a wider note, some mention how Sky only hire older men and young women. I would have to disagree with that to an extent. Obviously Charlotte Jackson et al are hired with their looks in mind. But there are plenty of younger guys on screen too (watch Sky Sports news for evidence). And the older men tend to be veteran anchors or ex-professionals. They are naturally going to be older. The ex-professionals line is self explanatory and needs no explanation as to why they are on screen.

But the older commentators and anchors (Jeff Stelling, Richard Keys, Martin Tyler etc) are a side effect of previous eras. They were working in an era when there were less females on TV and (as is proven in several surveys, research etc) less females interested in sport. That is changing and there will naturally be more women on TV presenting sports shows in future. Many sports women are getting involved with Sky too which helps. Particularly as anybody, either male or female, working on Sky should actually know about sport. Sarah Jane Mee is an example of a woman hosting a well known football show on Sky Sports. I would argue that all the younger presenters, male and female tend to be attractive. That is not an issue of sexism, that is an issue of looks seemingly being a key component to a TV career.

Edit: Andy Gray has been known for a long time to have "interesting" views on women, so this should not really surprise anybody. I'm glad he has finally paid the price.

WesternNight

amiable wrote: »

I do think British tv is gone PC mad

What exactly do you mean by this? Do you mean that the problem is with the people who took offence to what was said and they should have just let it go? Do you think there's truth in Keys' and Gray's comments and it's just a case of people not wanting to be seen to be sexist while actually agreeing with them?

Bodhisopha

HE WASN'T FIRED FOR THE REMARKS, HE WAS FIRED FOR THE VIDEO POSTED ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE THAT HAS ONLY SURFACED TODAY. I REPEAT...

ah fluck it. Just shut up about double standards and PC mad until you see what he was actually sacked for.

parker kent

Bodhisopha wrote: »

HE WASN'T FIRED FOR THE REMARKS, HE WAS FIRED FOR THE VIDEO POSTED ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE THAT HAS ONLY SURFACED TODAY. I REPEAT...

ah fluck it. Just shut up about double standards and PC mad until you see what he was actually sacked for.

That video has been online for over a month. It has gained further notoriety due to recent events. That notoriety is the straw that broke the camels back. He has been sacked because he is now a liability.

Bodhisopha

parker kent wrote: »

That video has been online for over a month. It has gained further notoriety due to recent events. That notoriety is the straw that broke the camels back. He has been sacked because he is now a liability.

I don't think it has m8y.

parker kent

For anybody wondering what I was talking about in my earlier line about Gray having an interesting history with women, this article should help!

Sky Sport's top commentator Gray's night of passion with closest pal's blonde missus

TOP telly soccer commentator Andy Gray betrayed his best mate by sneaking away for secret hotel sex sessions with his stunning wife, The People can reveal.

The former international player - now Britain's best-paid football pundit on Sky - spent a night of passion in a five-star Spanish hotel with blonde ex-model Rachel Lewis.

Meanwhile her unsuspecting husband Michael, 57, who has been friends with Randy Andy for over 30 years, was in England attending to family business.

Last night devastated Michael, a millionaire businessman, told The People: "I can't believe they would do this to me.

"I have been friends with Andy for years but he has just ruined my life.

"I can't put into print what I think about Rachel. We have got children who have to go through this mess. I feel utterly betrayed."

Former Everton and Rangers star Gray, 50, attended Michael and Rachel's wedding in 2001 and made a speech at the reception.

But that didn't stop the balding romeo - who has fathered five children by four different women - scoring with Rachel, 36, on Thursday night in upmarket resort Puerto Banus on the Costa del Sol.

Gray, who lives in a Warwickshire village, flew into her arms after commentating on a Champions League game in Lyon, France, the previous night.

Meanwhile hubby Michael, a former boutique chain owner who lives in the Costa del Sol's Marbella with Rachel and their two children from former relationships, was in Britain while the treachery took place.

Gray, who is reported to earn £20,000 a week with Sky TV, spent the night with interior designer Rachel in suite 436 at the posh Gvadalpin Hotel.

Next morning they enjoyed a late leisurely breakfast in bed. At 9.50am a room service trolley arrived at their sea-facing suite and as it left carrying two unwanted yoghurts a bill signed by Rachel was clearly visible.

Ninety minutes later, after a quick glance to check the coast was clear, Gray confidently strode down the marble corridor.

Looking tired, he even joked with our reporter in the lift about the slow hotel elevator saying: "It'd be quicker to walk."

In the lobby Gray smiled several times at suntanned Rachel as he waited for a receptionist and she looked on adoringly from across the entrance hall.

Dressed in a dark-blue blazer, light blue open-necked shirt and jeans, Gray handed over his room key for suite 436 and then paid the bill.

On the previous evening when The People asked hotel staff which room Rachel Lewis was ying in they confirmed in writing it was suite 436. After settling up, the pair slipped out of a back entrance of the hotel to avoid being spotted by any Sky Sports fans who might have been holidaying there.

He then drove Rachel in her rented silver Ford Focus to Malaga airport. He arrived an hour before his 2.40pm bmibaby flight to Birmingham from Malaga and hugged and kissed Rachel as they sat in the car parked in a secluded spot.

Former football hardman Gray, who won 20 international caps and scored seven goals with Scotland, tenderly placed his hands around Rachel's head as he kissed her gently.

The couple embraced and kissed oblivious to other holidaymakers before Gray headed into the busy airport terminal, giving Rachel a cheeky goodbye wave. But minutes later Gray - who helped Everton win the League and Cup Winners' Cup in 1985 - couldn't resist a spot of extra-time loving and was back without his luggage to once more kiss and hug Rachel.

The pair sat cosily on an airport wall and chatted while he waited for his flight home to be called.

Barefooted and smiling Rachel, dressed in a black T-shirt and skimpy white miniskirt, tenderly rested her head on Gray's shoulder at one point. Before he left for the final time they couple hugged and kissed again. After waving Gray off, Rachel then brazenly collected some friends from the airport who had no idea that she had met up with the telly star behind her husband's back.

Last night when The People approached Rachel about her night with Gray in suite 436 she insisted: "I'm separated."

But she refused to comment further.

When told that Rachel claimed she was already separated from him, devastated husband Michael said: "There have been some rows lately, but we ' re certainly not separated.

"I actually thought we were working things out. Then I get this news."

Gray, who became Britain's most expensive football player when he made a then record £1.4 million move from Aston Villa to Wolves in 1979, split with his long-term partner Suzanne Dando, 43, last year.

Asked for his explanation of his night with his best pal's wife, the Sky Sports commentator said: "I have got nothing to say to you. Doone."

HARDMAN WHO CAN'T SAY 'NO' TO PRETTY FACE

TWICE-MARRIED Andy Gray was dubbed Randy Andy during his playing days because of his love of pretty women.

He left his childhood sweetheart SARA MATTHEWS at the height of his fame in 1979 for VANESSA TAYLOR. She gave birth to Gray's first son Jamie.

But just four months after his wedding to Vanessa, his ex-love Sara secretly gave birth to THEIR son, also called Jamie.

Gray started an affair with Face Of The Eighties beauty JANET TRIGG, which led to his divorce from Vanessa in 1982.

He and Janet had two children Amy, now 20, and Katy, now 16. But the relationship was doomed and they split in 1987. A year later he wed JACKIE CHERRY and they had a daughter Sophie, now 14.

Then in 1995 first love SARA rang Gray to tell him he had fathered her son Jamie, now 24. They got back together but later split again.

His most recent partner former Olympic gymnast SUZANNE DANDO, 43, was left in tears last year after he dumped her just months after declaring his undying love for her.

She fell for romeo Gray in 2000 after also landing a job on Sky Sports and he told people how she had cured his wandering eye.

Gray said: "With age, I hope comes maturity."

Just three weeks after the split, Randy Andy was spotted cuddling a blonde in Puerto Banus - the same spot where his latest fling took place

Obviously there is not a law against having multiple relationships, but he does have dodgy morals when it comes to women.

parker kent

Bodhisopha wrote: »

I don't think it has m8y.

I misread a line in the Guardian and thought it was posted one month ago. But regardless, it was recorded during a Champions League broadcast, which means it is over 1 month old. At any time, that video could have been released. That it was not released, means that it did not contain anything particularly shocking Yes he looks like a knob in it, but it would not have caused the controversy that the weekend's events caused. Nobody would have cared about that video had the weekends events not happened.

He is being sacked because Sky do not want this to drag on and for there to be a drip-drip release of clips. The way that they video from the Womens FA Cup Final in the 90s has regained notoriety. Do you honestly think he would have been sacked for the Charlotte Jackson video had the weekend's events not happened?

Also, m8y...are you 8?! :pac:

Teclo

If people can be punished for thoughts expressed in a private then lets develop a thought machine to make sure nobody with undesirable thoughts can ever again walk among us again. :rolleyes:

johntommy

Good riddance to Gray and his biased pro Manchester United comments.
Get someone with a neutral intelligent view on games.

Ickle Magoo

Have you bothered reading any of the threads on this Teclo? Watch any of the clips?

To show how simply ridiculous Sky are being, I dare you to express all your personal thoughts about those around you at your place of employment, especially those you'd do/those who can't do the job cos they're women and perhaps wander up behind an unsuspecting female colleague making like you are touching your penis or unbuckling your trousers & come back and let us know how it all went? :pac:

fatmammycat

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/drivetime/blog/2011-01-25/matterface-andy-gray-wasnt-very-popular-among-people-he-worked

Interesting perspective on this.

WesternNight

Teclo wrote: »

If people can be punished for thoughts expressed in a private then lets develop a thought machine to make sure nobody with undesirable thoughts can ever again walk among us again. :rolleyes:

There was nothing private about where they expressed their opinions...

But honestly, even if they were thoughts that were completely private they would still be incorrect for thinking them because there are no legitimate reasons for having those opinions other than plain old prejudice.

Stheno

fatmammycat wrote: »

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/drivetime/blog/2011-01-25/matterface-andy-gray-wasnt-very-popular-among-people-he-worked

Interesting perspective on this.

I'm getting an access denied message on your link?

fatmammycat

Works for me.

Chinafoot

What I find hilarious about this is that people are defending him because he was "joking". Nothing that either of those boys said was meant as joke and to even attempt to fob it off as one is ridiculous. Listen to the nasty tone of voice used by Keyes, particularly when he says "do me a favour love".

The youtube clip that surfaced showing that the studio incident wasn't a joke about women not knowing the off-side rule. Andy Gray was engaged in a conversation about the attractiveness of a female linesman and felt the need to through in "women don't know the off-side rule." It was said with seriousness. Sure when he was first told by that reporter that there was a female linesman he looked incredulous and said "a female linesman?!".

Neither Gray nor Keyes were joking and its an insult to either gender with an ounce of intelligence to try and make out that they were.

Also just loving the "PC gone mad" bullshít. Yeah, those pesky PC bastards expecting someone to be judged on their ability and not their gender :rolleyes:

Stheno

fatmammycat wrote: »

Works for me.

Lol it works now!

neveah

I just watched the new clip that came to light today. It is bad tbh. I've seen people say on boards say 'oh he was only having a laugh' etc but that really isn't the point. He embarrassed, or sought to embarrass, a female co-worker, with sexual innuendo in front of other colleagues. This type of behaviour is completely unacceptable in any work environment.

I was thinking of my own work environment, where both men and women work and I can honestly say I can't imagine any of the lads, whether they are working in the warehouse, or at a senior level turning to me or any other girl in the office and asking us to 'tuck it in' while roaring laughing. Not saying that I work with angels but to be fair to them they might make jokes/have banter but they know not to cross a line.

ztoical

Teclo wrote: »

If people can be punished for thoughts expressed in a private then lets develop a thought machine to make sure nobody with undesirable thoughts can ever again walk among us again. :rolleyes:

Ever been into a tv studio? private is not how I would describe it.

parker kent

ztoical wrote: »

Ever been into a tv studio? private is not how I would describe it.

As much as I agree he should be sacked, it should be said that he was not aware the public would ever hear what he said. Posters saying that are correct. But it still does not eliminate the fact that he is in a workplace and he has been shown to be boorish and sexist towards female colleagues.

I said earlier that such a line as that he used to Charlotte Jackson can be OK in the right environment. I have female friends who would engage in similar banter back and forth. But it took time to build that set of in-jokes. But it does not look like Charlotte Jackson wanted to be spoken to like that. Banter between friends who know the score is perfectly OK. Embarrassing a colleague in work with sexist remarks, not so OK.

But he would never have been sacked over that behaviour. He obviously felt he could get away with it and has probably been at it since he joined Sky. As a footballer, he probably got away with murder (even in the 70s and 80s before the big money arrived).

As for unfair dismissal, I am sure he has a clause in his contract saying he cannot bring Sky into disrepute. Not giving an apology appears to have played a role in todays events too.

MiniSquish

I was reading a thread similar to this one in The Gentleman's Lounge earlier on and I was about to agree with the guy that I thought it was a little unfair that the guy had been sacked, maybe he should have been giving a warning first etc and then the guy that posted it started ranting about how when he turns on the tv he sees countless womens programmes with women ranting about men and making sexist comments about them.
I'm assuming he means "Loose Women" and the likes. Then he starts to give out and say that is it acceptable for us (women) to talk about men like that, just because men aren't as vain as we are etc. He really annoyed me, up until that point his argument had seemed fair to me but then he just started ranting about how women constantly put down men and they (men) have to put up with it. I think there is a big difference between the women on Loose Women making jokes light heartedly and a professional making assumptions about another professionals ability to do their job based on their gender.

Ickle Magoo

I would prefer if what's said in other forums is kept there and any complaints brought up either on the thread in question or to the relevant mods. /mod hat

Tbh, if I had my way shoite like Loose Women and Andy Gray et al would suffer the same horrible fate.

I don't get the whole two wrongs make a right angle anyway - surely neither women decrying men nor men decrying women is acceptable?

donfers

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Nozebleed, see the post above. Take any bemoans of double standards to the other thread please.



I am surprised that Sky took it any further than a public admonishment though. Purely speculative but perhaps grAy was asked to apologise and blew up, perhaps he's been privately admonished before and told he was on a final warning? I just think it's very odd that not only word of the comments but the actual footage made it into the public eye...and I don't think he's got a leg to stand on re unfair dismissal - I'd be astonished if Sky don't have a code of conduct or such-like sewn into their contracts.

or perhaps they wanted rid of him because he is sueing rupert murdochs news of the world....don't bite the hand that feeds and all that

i'd say if i could view, listen to or record most of the stuff the people in this thread have said off the record or while bantering (even at work) in the last few months i'd be able to dig up some juicy stuff that could potentially get you in serious strife with the pc brigade (they don't require a lot of encouragement to get the pitchforks out)

having said that, andy gray was well out of order with his comments, questioning the ability of an assistant referee purely because of her gender (while she proceeded to have a great game unlike a lot of her male contemporaries) and the crude gag with sky sports lady presenter, he should have, at the very least, apologised publically but I suspect he is fuming and thinks it's a stitch-up job by Sky

however, as I said, we are all fortunate enough not to work for a major broadcasting company so that anyone who has a bone to pick with us can merely scour through the reams of off-air footage looking for a dodgy remark, if all of us were placed under that kind of scrutiny few would emerge unscathed (especially when comments can be edited down and taken out of context)


the most remarkable aspect of this whole episode is the unholy alliance between many premiership soccer fans (who hate Gray's analysis) and the feminism/equality/PC crowd, nothing unites groups more than a common enemy

However, I would stress the following:

Gray is an old-fashioned twat

but Murdoch is the really nasty bastard out there yet people are lapping his Machievellian strategies up again, he truly has almost all of us wrapped around his finger

Ickle Magoo

donfers wrote: »

Gray is an old-fashioned twat

but Murdoch is the really nasty bastard out there yet people are lapping his Machievellian strategies up again, he truly has almost all of us wrapped around his finger

I'd say there's plenty that don't like either of them, tbh...Gray gets the boot and made a pariah after years of inappropriate behaviour and Murdoch might yet get two law suits out it - win, win for everyone.

hatrickpatrick

Women bash guys ALL THE TIME on TV, be it in fiction or on factual programs. Even ads have generalizations against guys.

Does anyone get fired? No.
Does anyone TRY to get them fired? No.

BECAUSE IT'S A JOKE.

Seriously, the amount of times I've heard "all men are ____" on TV couldn't be counted. I've never wished for the speaker's livelihood to be destroyed or their name to be dragged through the mud over it.

Equality is EQUALITY. You can't say it's ok for one gender but not the other. If Gray is being fired over this, that C4 show Loose Women should have all three presenters fired, and that's just for starters.

Double standards are never, ever justified.

hatrickpatrick

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I don't get the whole two wrongs make a right angle anyway - surely neither women decrying men nor men decrying women is acceptable?

If one is acceptable both are. If one is being done on a constant basis and no one is being punished, then Gray shouldn't be punished either.

Ickle Magoo

HatrickPatrick - as already stated, if you want to discuss double standards from a male perspective, there is a thread here.