would you allow 5yr old son dress as girl?

up for anything

aDeener wrote: »

omg you are like so open minded

Why are you speaking fluent LAD4 when you live in Buttevant?

jackiebaron

WindSock wrote: »

Kilts are fairly hot.

I think I already addressed kilts and sarongs in my post.

emzolita

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1727527&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=130196733699582&aid=-1&id=1509798701&oid=130196733699582&fbid=1696739507552 holy mother!!!

amacca

jackiebaron wrote: »

And both are/were bipolar or unhinged lunatics.

In fairness though if I thought Jack Nicholson turned out the way he did simply because he was put in dress as a young age - I'd have to insist he wore that dress.

Hours of pleasure - legend. There are very few films I didnt enjoy him in.


probably very little to do with dresses though.

WindSock

jackiebaron wrote: »

I think I already addressed kilts and sarongs in my post.

Oops, missed that bit.

As for frocks, well depends on the cut and the style of the dress I suppose. Some frocks look awful on women too

And not long ago, a chap here wouldn't be caught dead wearing pink. Then the popularity of pink shirts seemed to peak in the mid noughties.

The Waltzing Consumer

Conor D wrote: »

When addressing this issue it is worth knowing that both Ernest Hemmingway & Jack Nicholson were dressed in girls clothes when they were young boys.

Both have led amazing careers and enjoyed success with women.

It is also worth pointing out that Charles Manson was put into girls clothing, alongside many serial killers and murderers, at a young age.

pocketslint

Let's face it, the one's who could do with a good kick up the hole are in the majority.

emzolita

emzolita wrote: »

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1727527&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=130196733699582&aid=-1&id=1509798701&oid=130196733699582&fbid=1696739507552 holy mother!!!

Holy christ, I feel so sorry for some of them kids. There damn stupid mare mothers should have had daughters.
look at the one with the wearing the communion dress. Jesus wept.

The most disturbing is all the comments praising the parents.

jackiebaron

Conor D wrote: »

@starbelgrade
@Mussolini

My statement is what it is. Regardless of Hemmingway's suicide he was regarded as one of the greatest journalists of all time before moving into writing novels where he was regarded equally in high regard. Dito Nicholson in acting.

Both made a name for themselves as womanisers.

I am not saying either means 'success' however I am addressing the 2 main concerns people may have regarding putting a boy in girls clothes:

1 Will this mean the boy will be homosexual
2 Will this mean the boy may not succeed because of confusion

PLEASE NOTE:

I DID NOT SAY there is anything wrong with being homosexual or with not reaching your potential.

I DID SAY what we wear as kids doesn't amount to a hill of beans

Hmmm! I'm not so sure. Some say that being encouraged to wear girls clothes as a boy will lead to homosexual tendencies later in life. I say it won't. You are gay or you are straight or you are bisexual. You can't be "made" into one of them.

HOWEVER.....the wearing of girls' clothes as a young boy may very well lead to psychological difficulties later in life and if that's the case then your Hemingway/Nicholson hypothesis falls flat on its arse since both men are bananas.

The wearing of girls clothes isn't simply the wearing of clothes. It's behaviour. It's not going to influence your sexuality but it may cause mental issues. After all what you're doing here is sculpting a young mind. Creating a false identity which will have to be shattered later on in life. I know a woman who fawned over her son. The kid wasn't the brightest star in the sky but she made him believe that he was the smartest kid in the world. That he could do anything he wanted instead of letting reality hit him from time to time. One day the school principal called her down to the school for a talk. Turns out the kid told the teachers that he was an expert pianist and joyfully they asked if he would play a little bit before the following morning's assembly to which he eagerly agreed. Next morning came and he, perched before the school piano, couldn't play a fucking note. But in his fantasy world that she helped create....he could do anything after all. The kid's 18 now and still a bit odd.
Moral of the story....little boys will, out of curiosity try on dresses and may even plaster lipstick on themselves. But if parents like the two idiots in this article actually facilitate and encourage such behaviour to be ongoing then they're setting the stage for some troubling times ahead when it's time to leave the frocks and tutus behind and dress like a boy.

gurramok

jackiebaron wrote: »

HOWEVER.....the wearing of girls' clothes as a young boy may very well lead to psychological difficulties later in life and if that's the case then your Hemingway/Nicholson hypothesis falls flat on its arse since both men are bananas.

Moral of the story....little boys will, out of curiosity try on dresses and may even plaster lipstick on themselves. But if parents like the two idiots in this article actually facilitate and encourage such behaviour to be ongoing then they're setting the stage for some troubling times ahead when it's time to leave the frocks and tutus behind and dress like a boy.

When is that time? Should the boy decide at a certain age?

And what about the hundreds of thousands of girls who dress like boys, do they turn out to have psychological difficulties?

sensibleken

Putting make up on your five year old boy leads to a dangerous possibility that he might turn out to be a Goth.

Not worth the risk imo

we'llallhavetea_old

i think its pathetic that there's such a furore over this. the mother should be shot for shoving him in front of a camera and announcing "wuhoo, you're so different, freaky princess boy" when he's not different, he's a child that likes frilly clothing...

jackiebaron

gurramok wrote: »

When is that time? Should the boy decide at a certain age?

And what about the hundreds of thousands of girls who dress like boys, do they turn out to have psychological difficulties?

There is no time. A kid will decide what he wants to wear whenever. Usually he will want to wear similar clothes to his dad and his friends. I used to love wearing wellies coz my uncle on the farm wore them and they made me feel important...like I was in a position of great responsibility even though my tasks during my summers there were to collect the eggs and pour milk from a bucket into the calf-trough.

Girls will want to wear jeans if they see their mother wearing them. They will also want to wear jeans if they are a "daddy's girl" and he wears them. It's not rocket science.

And no, girls don't turn out to have psychological difficulties because they wear jeans. Remember all girls who wear jeans and trainers as little girls probably choose to wear them because they are comfy and they feel "equal" to boys and may even bash up one or two boys if they get the urge.
A boy will RARELY choose to wear a dress however and these parents that tart up these so called "princess boys" are dressing the kid the way THEY (the parents) want to see him....not what he himself wants.
And before you come out and say "many of these princess boys want to wear dresses", I might point out to you that these boys have picked up on the fact that they are treated with a lot more doting and spoiling by these moronic parents when they dress like a girl than if they were just clad in regular boy duds so they are bound to want to wear the dress in order to be fawned over. It's not healthy.

kowloon

jackiebaron wrote: »

A grown man in a dress doesn't really look attractive at all, now does he?

Speak for yourself, I look FABULOUS!

azezil

starbelgrade wrote: »

There is every possibility that a male kid who cross-dresses will be a homosexual adult.

The possibility of that isn't increased by the fact that he cross-dresses as a child

Correct

, but it is a possibility.

That sounds like you're contradicting what you just said.

jackiebaron

kowloon wrote: »

Speak for yourself, I look FABULOUS!

Pics or GTFO :P

fonecrusher1

Haha heres the fact of the matter...

If you had a little 4 or 5 year old son & he insisted in running around in dresses, you'd find it amusing for a week or 2.

After a prolonged length of time you'd be a bit stressed/worried & you'd probably start thinking of a plan to get him away from wanting feminine possessions.

C'mon don't bullsh!t yourselves. I know its great to post very sort of oh i couldn't care less...yaaaay!! comments but you'd be a bit concerned & ya know it. Especially the fathers.

Biggins

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Haha heres the fact of the matter...

If you had a little 4 or 5 year old son & he insisted in running around in dresses, you'd find it amusing for a week or 2.

After a prolonged length of time you'd be a bit stressed/worried & you'd probably start thinking of a plan to get him away from wanting feminine possessions.

C'mon don't bullsh!t yourselves. I know its great to post very sort of oh i couldn't care less...yaaaay!! comments but you'd be a bit concerned & ya know it. Especially the fathers.

Aaa no!
...And I say that with hand on heart.

I could be the exception to the rule but as a father of a daughter with Scoliosis and a man who had to watch his brother grow physically with severe brain damage and epilepsy, I count my blessings, my son is just ok.
I'll let him have his fads (as long as they don't put his life at risk) and when he does move on/out of them to the next one, as long as he's happy and healthy, I'm fine with it.

gurramok

jackiebaron wrote: »

There is no time. A kid will decide what he wants to wear whenever. Usually he will want to wear similar clothes to his dad and his friends. I used to love wearing wellies coz my uncle on the farm wore them and they made me feel important...like I was in a position of great responsibility even though my tasks during my summers there were to collect the eggs and pour milk from a bucket into the calf-trough.

If you are on a farm doing work in the muck, you are hardly going to wear high heels!:rolleyes:
I can just picture a kid wearing clothes like his dad, nothing from the fashion store for his age no?:rolleyes:

jackiebaron wrote: »

Girls will want to wear jeans if they see their mother wearing them. They will also want to wear jeans if they are a "daddy's girl" and he wears them. It's not rocket science.

Contradicting there to your following sentence about comfyness. So which is it, to be a 'daddy girl' or to be 'comfy'?

jackiebaron wrote: »

And no, girls don't turn out to have psychological difficulties because they wear jeans. Remember all girls who wear jeans and trainers as little girls probably choose to wear them because they are comfy and they feel "equal" to boys and may even bash up one or two boys if they get the urge.
A boy will RARELY choose to wear a dress however and these parents that tart up these so called "princess boys" are dressing the kid the way THEY (the parents) want to see him....not what he himself wants.
And before you come out and say "many of these princess boys want to wear dresses", I might point out to you that these boys have picked up on the fact that they are treated with a lot more doting and spoiling by these moronic parents when they dress like a girl than if they were just clad in regular boy duds so they are bound to want to wear the dress in order to be fawned over. It's not healthy.

Perhaps if that boy wanted a dress, its frowned upon and forced to wear jeans/trousers? You know, societal pressures.

Since when do clothes define a person's gender? Who made that one up?

ejmaztec

gurramok wrote: »

If you are on a farm doing work in the muck, you are hardly going to wear high heels!:rolleyes:

It all depends on how deep the sh1t is.

silverspoon

jackiebaron wrote: »

Girls will want to wear jeans if they see their mother wearing them. They will also want to wear jeans if they are a "daddy's girl" and he wears them. It's not rocket science.

A boy will RARELY choose to wear a dress however

Just want to emphasise this. Boys will rarely choose to wear a dress, perhaps because, unlike girls who see other females wearing jeans, they don't see other males wearing dresses. There are no skirts or dresses designed for boys or men available widely in shops. As babies and toddlers, we wear what our parents put on our backs. By the time any of us are old enough to notice what we're wearing and interact with clothes - have favourites etc. - the kinds of thing we wear are pretty established.

I'm not saying that I would run around after my hypothetical son urging him into skirts. But the stereotypes of what a boy wears are established firmly well before the boy himself is able to choose. By the time he is able to choose it's within the context of the boy's clothes already available to him, which do not include skirts and dresses. To say that he wouldn't choose a dress is really because he's not generally offered the option.

Is it because while jeans, as a stereotypical 'male' item of clothing, was empowering for a woman to wear, whereas a skirt or dress, as a stereotypical 'female' item, is somehow humiliating and debasing? I have no idea.

I don't see the harm in a little boy liking dresses. It's curiosity, it's innocent, and the child is not going to 'catch the gay' from trying on a tutu. I would certainly have no problem with my boy doing that. But isn't life difficult enough without the stupid mother making a big issue of it? I would be reluctant to let my son go out in public wearing a skirt or dress, because he would be too young to understand the implications for some people of him doing so, and if I were that little boy's mother, I'd be damned if I were going to make a spectacle of him so that people have 'food for thought'. By all means let him enjoy wearing a dress or skirt in his own house where no other d!ckheads could make him feel bad for it, but I wouldn't put my innocent kid through that for others to laugh at him, bully him or put him down.

pocketslint

On a purely practical level it is surely far easier to give someone wearing a dress a good kick up the hole.

Biggins

pocketslint wrote: »

On a purely practical level it is surely far easier to give someone wearing a dress a good kick up the hole.

Charming.

Thats you off the babysitting list!

Chuchoter

I would but I wouldn't put them on TV like some kind of freak. I think its very interesting however how its ok to be a tomboy, even a positive, but not the other way round, because being a girl is demeaning, its a social demotion.

Links234

absolutely I would, if that's what he wanted.

my views on the parents, I think you can be cynical and look at it as a ploy for money/attention/fame or something else, or you can look at it as a parent reaching out and trying to normalise what other parents might not know how to deal with and reaching out and helping other children.

there was something else I was reading recently, this article from portrait of an adoption.

first thing is that knowing the attitudes of people in after hours, I'd bet a lot of you would be up in arms about publicizing that a child is adopted, because there's a stigma that there's something wrong about being adopted and that kids might bully a child for that. instead of secrecy or shame about it, we are shown a child that is very happy and I think challenging the stigma attatched to adoptive children publically, is far better than them living with shame from it.

anyway, in the post I linked, the young girl Katie is bullied at school for liking star wars. the article got loads of feedback and many comments were left for Katie by women who also loved star wars and encouraged her to be herself.

Wow! Katie is overjoyed by the comments coming in!!! My sweet first grade daughter has been sitting with me at the computer, reading aloud all the wonderful, supportive notes from readers, and her face is shining. Each night after dinner, we are going to sit together, and she is going to read several comments to me and her daddy. We are going to print the comments out and make a book for her to read whenever she feels the need. Today she wore a Star Wars shirt to school and said to me, "Tell the people about it!!!!" This is really restoring her self confidence. She did a jaunty little pirouette in her Star Wars shirt before school. Thank you, Carrie

Read more: http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/portrait_of_an_adoption/2010/11/anti-bullying-starts-in-first-grade.html#ixzz1A5bGY8lD

I think this publicity is a positive thing, and helped her find confidence in herself and that it's ok to be different. reaching out and getting support in this way can be a very, very good thing.

I think the parents of the boy who likes to dress as a girl are doing something equally positive in reaching out.

it's better to challenge things, challenge the stigmas and stereotypes and help kids be confident in their individuality. be it adoption, or having interests that are supposedly bound to one gender, or any number of things. the more we normalise these things, the more we encourage kids to be confident in themselves and their own interests, and the more we refuse to kowtow to the bullies, the better a future we'll have for raising all children. a kid isn't going to pick on another kid for being different if they don't think there's anything wrong with being different.

TheZohanS

Links234 wrote: »

absolutely I would, if that's what he wanted.

my views on the parents, I think you can be cynical and look at it as a ploy for money/attention/fame or something else, or you can look at it as a parent reaching out and trying to normalise what other parents might not know how to deal with and reaching out and helping other children.

there was something else I was reading recently, this article from portrait of an adoption.

first thing is that knowing the attitudes of people in after hours, I'd bet a lot of you would be up in arms about publicizing that a child is adopted, because there's a stigma that there's something wrong about being adopted and that kids might bully a child for that. instead of secrecy or shame about it, we are shown a child that is very happy and I think challenging the stigma attatched to adoptive children publically, is far better than them living with shame from it.

anyway, in the post I linked, the young girl Katie is bullied at school for liking star wars. the article got loads of feedback and many comments were left for Katie by women who also loved star wars and encouraged her to be herself.



I think this publicity is a positive thing, and helped her find confidence in herself and that it's ok to be different. reaching out and getting support in this way can be a very, very good thing.

I think the parents of the boy who likes to dress as a girl are doing something equally positive in reaching out.

it's better to challenge things, challenge the stigmas and stereotypes and help kids be confident in their individuality. be it adoption, or having interests that are supposedly bound to one gender, or any number of things. the more we normalise these things, the more we encourage kids to be confident in themselves and their own interests, and the more we refuse to kowtow to the bullies, the better a future we'll have for raising all children. a kid isn't going to pick on another kid for being different if they don't think there's anything wrong with being different.

Ah Links you can dress up a dude in a dress but at the end of the day he's still a dude. It's would be far easier on the kid in the long run for the parents to give the child some proper guidance when he's young rather than having him end up spending years on a shrinks chair.

Kiera

TheZohan wrote: »

Ah Links you can dress up a dude in a dress but at the end of the day he's still a dude. It's would be far easier on the kid in the long run for the parents to give the child some proper guidance when he's young rather than having him end up spending years on a shrinks chair.

*hands TheZohan a lid* Quick, stick it back on that can of worms....

Links234

Links234 wrote: »

absolutely I would, if that's what he wanted.

my views on the parents, I think you can be cynical and look at it as a ploy for money/attention/fame or something else, or you can look at it as a parent reaching out and trying to normalise what other parents might not know how to deal with and reaching out and helping other children.

there was something else I was reading recently, this article from portrait of an adoption.

first thing is that knowing the attitudes of people in after hours, I'd bet a lot of you would be up in arms about publicizing that a child is adopted, because there's a stigma that there's something wrong about being adopted and that kids might bully a child for that. instead of secrecy or shame about it, we are shown a child that is very happy and I think challenging the stigma attatched to adoptive children publically, is far better than them living with shame from it.

anyway, in the post I linked, the young girl Katie is bullied at school for liking star wars. the article got loads of feedback and many comments were left for Katie by women who also loved star wars and encouraged her to be herself.



I think this publicity is a positive thing, and helped her find confidence in herself and that it's ok to be different. reaching out and getting support in this way can be a very, very good thing.

I think the parents of the boy who likes to dress as a girl are doing something equally positive in reaching out.

it's better to challenge things, challenge the stigmas and stereotypes and help kids be confident in their individuality. be it adoption, or having interests that are supposedly bound to one gender, or any number of things. the more we normalise these things, the more we encourage kids to be confident in themselves and their own interests, and the more we refuse to kowtow to the bullies, the better a future we'll have for raising all children. a kid isn't going to pick on another kid for being different if they don't think there's anything wrong with being different.

Would you mind if I asked had you children? Im not trying to be a smart arse, just curious.
If so, would you allow your son to play out in a dress? Equally if he wanted to wear a dress for his communion, like that boy in the pics earlier, would you really honestly be okay with that? Knowing the possible abuse the child would suffer?

Links234

Kiera wrote: »

*hands TheZohan a lid* Quick, stick it back on that can of worms....

Zohan's idea of good parenting is a "kick up the hole", so he's hardly worth arguing with

Kiera

Links234 wrote: »

Zohan's idea of good parenting is a "kick up the hole", so he's hardly worth arguing with

*takes lid back*