Budget day discussion thread. Your budget chat goes here.(Rules and links first post)

FreudianSlippers

I think we should charge 50c per cubic metre. Sanitation and new pipes aren't free!

My name is URL

MardiB wrote: »

The problem is that while nobody wants social welfare fraud or public sector inefficiency, this is all a smokescreen.

+1 to that. It happens all the time, create a class war to avoid a civil one. They've been forcing a wedge between private and public sectors for years so that both are preoccupied with fighting a battle which is actually taking place elsewhere.

FreudianSlippers

Dan_Solo wrote: »

It would be easier just to cut their salary, no?

Not really. Then they don't have incentive to perform do they?

MardiB

My name is URL wrote: »

+1 to that. It happens all the time, create a class war to avoid a civil one. They've been forcing a wedge between private and public sectors for years so that both are preoccupied with fighting a battle which is actually taking place elsewhere.

Absolutley anything to deflect from what is actually going on. The government treats us like idiots and we are worse dopes for letting them. Look at the IMF. They are not coming nope, oh wait they are here and there is very little fuss really about such bare faced lies. I have my own opinions on the IMF but to be constantly lied to like that is sickening.

OPENROAD

Dionysus wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that because both firms are coming from a monopolistic/dominant position which is based entirely on having the power of the state behind them. This has made the job of McManus (ESB)and Mullins (Bord Gáis), for instance, much easier than private sector CEOs who did not have that foundation or support. There's an excellent article over on Britain's Guardian website comparing the CEO salaries in some Irish and British public sectors. Pádraig McManus's €750,000 salary package is way out of proportion to anything there.

Just read it in full, shocking,really shocking

Dionysus

OisinT wrote: »

Not really. Then they don't have incentive to perform do they?

But salary is relative so if all of them have their salaries radically cut then their incentive will still remain. Yes, some will emigrate but there will always be plenty of talented (or, rather, as talented as anything we've had for the past decade) people with families and roots here who will take the cuts in order to maintain their position in Ireland. More generally, the sad reality appears to be that they are all hugely overpaid by international standards (have a read of the above Guardian article).

Noonan was brilliant on this point in his debate with Lenihan on the budget: he kept reiterating that Lenihan failed to decisively tackle public service salaries.

OPENROAD

Dionysus wrote: »

they are all hugely overpaid by international standards (have a read of the above Guardian article).

Spot on

FreudianSlippers

Dionysus wrote: »

But salary is relative so if all of them have their salaries radically cut then their incentive will still remain. Yes, some will emigrate but there will always be plenty of talented (or, rather, as talented as anything we've had for the past decade) people with families and roots here who will take the cuts in order to maintain their position in Ireland. More generally, the sad reality appears to be that they are all hugely overpaid by international standards (have a read of the above Guardian article).

Noonan was brilliant on this point in his debate with Lenihan on the budget: he kept reiterating that Lenihan failed to decisively tackle public service salaries.

I don't disagree there either. I just think it's unlikely to happen with our current system (or any near-term system) - our failure is not political... it's systemic!

Sonnenblumen

desaparecidos wrote: »

Eircom has one of the highest line rental charges in the world and are utterly incompetent.

Selling off semi state companies will be a disaster.

Might give a short term windfall but so what? History tells us (consumers) differently. Just look at Eircom & Aer Lingus fiascos...more to follow (ESB, Bord Gais, VHI...). The customer doesn't seem to pay all the way with no real gain.

Dan_Solo

MardiB wrote: »

That's an absurd comment. privatisation=competition=lower prices

Would the Irish banks be a good example of this private sector competition and efficiency?
What's absurd is that you think monopolies are competitive, whether they're private or public.

oppenheimer1

Dionysus wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that because both firms are coming from a monopolistic/dominant position which is based entirely on having the power of the state behind them. This has made the job of McManus (ESB)and Mullins (Bord Gáis), for instance, much easier than private sector CEOs who did not have that foundation or support. There's an excellent article over on Britain's Guardian website comparing the CEO salaries in some Irish and British public sectors. Pádraig McManus's €750,000 salary package is way out of proportion to anything there.

If you look over in politics the figures reported by the guardian have been debunked... What ever about the prime minister and the secretaries, they pay their own semi-states far more
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69417338&postcount=11
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69417507&postcount=13

Lu Tze

OisinT wrote: »

I think we should charge 50c per cubic metre. Sanitation and new pipes aren't free!

Cost of producing water in Ireland varies from 15c to €1.00 per cubic metre from what i have seen. So it will depend on what area you are in.

Also some of ye are already drinking privatised water, some of the plants are operated by private companies.

Johnny Utah

What a joke, the government has pledged €635m in overseas aid. We simply cannot afford it....:mad:





http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69449251#post69449251

Son Of A Vidic

Johnny Utah wrote: »

What a joke, the government has pledged €635m in overseas aid. We simply cannot afford it....:mad:





http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69449251#post69449251

Totally disgusting, we have many, many people and families in this country who are in a dire situation. Yet we can send so much money overseas, Jaysus are we the great little country altogether. A common condition in this country called - 'image projection' - look at me aren't I great syndrome! This 'condition' was rampant during the 'Tiger' years. If we can't look after our own little nation and the social and economic deprivation that exists out there, then what the hell are we doing jostling for attention on the world stage ffs!

gurramok

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Totally disgusting, we have many, many people and families in this country who are in a dire situation. Yet we can send so much money overseas, Jaysus are we the great little country altogether. A common condition in this country called - 'image projection' - look at me aren't I great syndrome! This 'condition' was rampant during the 'Tiger' years. If we can't look after our own little nation and the social and economic deprivation that exists out there, then what the hell are we doing jostling for attention on the world stage ffs!

Irish people should claim asylum in this country(if there was a way), you'd be much better off if you are broke

Dan_Solo

OisinT wrote: »

Not really. Then they don't have incentive to perform do they?

Right, the only way you can get people to run a state-derived monopoly at a profit is to pay them €750,000 a year. Hospital consultants and senior civil servants on €200,000 must be wondering where they went wrong.

Mint Sauce

Apolagies if it was posted already.

First 10 minutes of Pearse Docertys Budget Speech. 3.15 to 3.45 and 7.45 to 8.35 is gold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyYVfuedy0g

A very passionate speech, unsure what effect it will have in the long term, just a shame more of the house did not stay to listen.

Dan_Solo

Thank god a few of the opposition heads last night were starting to turn the discussion away from the "impact" of the budget to the "reason" for the budget: the FF bank guarantee and bailout. This HAS to be brought up at every opportunity. It would be great if enough pressure could be applied to force this budget to fall. Then no IMF bailout and we're back to the only option left: cancel the bank guarantee or simply allow it to expire.

Degsy

OisinT wrote: »

Sure, blame the private sector :rolleyes:

What like Seany Fitz and the rest of them?
Okay then.

johnn

Mods- sorry for starting new thread

I'm back

What do you mean "ORDINARY" since when has it become ordinary to sit at home on your arse and receive free money.

I could accept them getting their money when they were going to be humiliated in order to get it by having to clean the streets for me & my colleagues and pick up shit etc. I bet you would have seen a load of people miraculously return to work if they had of brought that in. The one sensible idea this government came up with and they didn't even use it:rolleyes:

So have they been made to pick up shit in order to collect their dole yet, fair is fair. :cool:

My name is URL

johnn wrote: »

Mods- sorry for starting new thread

And congratulations on failing

Galway K9

irish-stew wrote: »

Apolagies if it was posted already.

First 10 minutes of Pearse Docertys Budget Speech. 3.15 to 3.45 and 7.45 to 8.35 is gold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyYVfuedy0g

A very passionate speech, unsure what effect it will have in the long term, just a shame more of the house did not stay to listen.

This got to me! Jesus, i looked at it with the approach of "this be funny" esp when they all left min sinn fein came on but when he said youve sold out the average people tryign to get by.....jesus...great speech!!!! A++++++++++

Tech3

This budget will inflict financial pain on most people in soceity which is people on the social welfare, minimum wage and the middle class. The upper class are again easily let off on severe tax. This cannot continue and also the fact FF didnt touch the state pension for another year in fear of losing significant votes.

The thread is littered with posts proclaiming extreme right wing ideals which favours the upper class and protects the rich. If only there was more discussion on the actual budget that will affect so many over the next year and a more realistic view on the unemployed that have to make ends meet everyday of the year.

ilovesleep

I want to track down bertie ahern, and put him and the two brians sitting on the spire.

Fighting Irish

Well at least i still have my €400k house the banks and government made me buy