Budget day discussion thread. Your budget chat goes here.(Rules and links first post)

johnn

Crosáidí wrote: »

Yeah your right, thanks for those cans you paid for me last week :P

Everyone who actually works reading this thread, look at the attitude of these people bleeding the country dry, they come laughing in our faces because we want to work for a living. You make me sick.

johnn

OisinT wrote: »

No, some work must be done to receive the dole - community service, taking a class to upskill, cleaning graffiti, etc.

Does anyone know what happened to this idea of having them sweep streets/paint walls/pick up shit was scrapped?

Rodin

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardinn View Post
Does anyone else not think pierce Doherty behaves like a big Fascist Dictator - everyone here seems to love him - Speeches like that are great - hitler used to do it all the time. Be careful at the next GE....
You smoking crack?

Hitler put the unemployed to work. After allowing them to turn down a job offer once. How someone on the dole is allowed to turn down work, and still have their hand out is beyond me

Paully D

johnn wrote: »

F'n Hell only 8euro off the Dole?! I thought/was hoping they were going to halve the thing FFS. Sure they'll have to buy Foster's with their dole now instead of Heineken the poor feckers :rolleyes:

Dutch Gold actually :P

High energy

johnn wrote: »

I bet you would have seen a load of people miraculously return to work if they had of brought that in.

Do you honestly think there are 450,000 open job vacancies in Ireland at the moment?

If your answer is yes, then I suggest you do some research into the situation. I would estimate (at a stretch) that there are less than 5% that number of vacancies.

giant_midget

-€8 for people on the dole sickens me..If you smoke and are on the dole, smoke 3 less cigarettes a day and the financial hit of "€8" is gone...

shoot em all in the head :pac:

Biggins

johnn wrote: »

...You make me sick.

Here's hoping you don't land in hospital. There is enough bed shortages as it is!

dr.bollocko

Johnn. I can understand your ire however you have gone too far. Do not post in this thread again unless you wish to make a reasonable non-insulting contribution which doesn't involve generalisations or insults.
PM me for clarification.

cleremy jarkson

High energy wrote: »

Do you honestly think there are 450,000 open job vacancies in Ireland at the moment?

If your answer is yes, then I suggest you do some research into the situation. I would estimate (at a stretch) that there are less than 5% that number of vacancies.

Yes, but if the government eventually cut social welfare by 20% or more, they would be able to cut taxes and create an enviroment for jobs to be made..ya know?

Ardennes1944

OisinT wrote: »

It pisses me off that I contribute largely to the dole and yet I can never receive it. :mad:

at 18 last year for 7months i was paying over 120 a week in tax. while this may not seem like much it is alot for a college going 18 year old. if i lose that job this year i will not be able to get anything because im paying two grand for my education:rolleyes: and one of my friends, gets the grant because only his dad works. he wants to get a part time job but he can only work up to 8hours a week otherwise he will lose the grant and be about 2000 out of pocket. this is bolox.
i hear ya Oisin

FreudianSlippers

johnn wrote: »

Does anyone know what happened to this idea of having them sweep streets/paint walls/pick up shit was scrapped?

No. Furthermore, I think the dole payments should be put on a card that is only usable to purchase government approved categories of items (akin to the US Electronic Benefit Transfer Cards). These would not allow the purchase of (or would cap the amount available to spend per week on) items such as fast food, entertainment, cigarettes and booze.

The transactions would also be exempt or at a lower rate of VAT.

AckwelFoley

johnn wrote: »

Does anyone know whu this idea of having them sweep streets/paint walls/pick up shit was scrapped?

Try getting a vote after implementing it -

then the subsequent government abolishes it and it makes tem bullet proof.

Charlie Haughey got rid of the poll tax in the 80's (or some similar one like a property tax) and that essentially bought him a generation of votes

High energy

johnn wrote: »

Everyone who actually works reading this thread, look at the attitude of these people bleeding the country dry, they come laughing in our faces because we want to work for a living. You make me sick.

Your ignorance of the economic situation is laughable.

Do you really think the €4 billion jobseekers payments are the cause of your tax increases and other cuts today?

Wouldn't have anything to do with the €70 billion+ bailout of our precious banks?

Millicent

OisinT wrote: »

No, some work must be done to receive the dole - community service, taking a class to upskill, cleaning graffiti, etc.

I see where you are coming from with this. I'm not exactly opposed but with the failings of FAS, the current government's habit of massaging the dole numbers with their schemes and the joke that are the work placement programmes, I can see arguments against it too.

johnn wrote: »

Everyone who actually works reading this thread, look at the attitude of these people bleeding the country dry, they come laughing in our faces because we want to work for a living. You make me sick.

It wasn't scrapped -- they're planning on adding 5000 more to the scheme, if I read correctly.

Hedman

johnn wrote: »

What do you mean "ORDINARY" since when has it become ordinary to sit at home on your arse and receive free money.

I could accept them getting their money when they were going to be humiliated in order to get it by having to clean the streets for me & my colleagues and pick up shit etc. I bet you would have seen a load of people miraculously return to work if they had of brought that in. The one sensible idea this government came up with and they didn't even use it :rolleyes:

Are you serious? The unemployment rate in the country was around 4.8% in Dec 2007, now 3 years later it's sat around 14%. Do you really think those 9.8% just woke up one morning and decided ah sure feck it, i can't be arsed with this working lark anymore.

Oh and since you think it's a great idea to have all these lazy scroungers out there cleaning up after you, can you tell me what you would then do with all the people that are currently employed in these positions?

Mark200

High energy wrote: »

Do you honestly think there are 450,000 open job vacancies in Ireland at the moment?

If your answer is yes, then I suggest you do some research into the situation. I would estimate (at a stretch) that there are less than 5% that number of vacancies.

What research have you done into the situation?

Also, just because there may not be 'vacancies' doesn't mean there isn't opportunity to make money. What's wrong with the idea of someone setting up their own little business?

Millicent

OisinT wrote: »

No. Furthermore, I think the dole payments should be put on a card that is only usable to purchase government approved categories of items (akin to the US Electronic Benefit Transfer Cards). These would not allow the purchase of (or would cap the amount available to spend per week on) items such as fast food, entertainment, cigarettes and booze.

The transactions would also be exempt or at a lower rate of VAT.

Oh hell no. I was with you up till then. You're advocating for the nanny treatment of every unemployed person in the country? Having to announce in every supermarket that we are on benefits? How's the view in that ivory tower, seriously? I will not be treating like a child because I am claiming the benefits I have paid towards. No dice.

Mark200

Hedman wrote: »

Oh and since you think it's a great idea to have all these lazy scroungers out there cleaning up after you, can you tell me what you would then do with all the people that are currently employed in these positions?

There's plenty of work that needs to be done that the Government can not afford to pay people to do (and so there is currently no one "employed in these positions". One thing that struck me the other day was the need to clean up all the chewing gum off the streets of Dublin.

desaparecidos

K-9 wrote: »

Poor single lad on about 25k is going to see a 5% cut or so.

Wohoo that's me!!

I keep thinking to myself, what did I personally do to deserve this rate of reduction in my net pay.

Did I buy a house I could never really afford, aspiring to a life style far beyond my means?
Did I live my life on credit like so many others?
Did I promise to cover the loses of private institutions gambling debts?
Did I mismanage the countries economy for years without recourse from the passive and apathetic public?
Did I vote in an incompetent bunch of corrupt gombeens year after year in the hope they would sort out my petty local issues?

I have to say no to all of the above.

I can really say without recourse that I did nothing to aid or help the fundamental causes of why we are in the position we are today.

I've had enough of this ****e. Revolution begins tonight.

High energy

OisinT wrote: »

No. Furthermore, I think the dole payments should be put on a card that is only usable to purchase government approved categories of items (akin to the US Electronic Benefit Transfer Cards). These would not allow the purchase of (or would cap the amount available to spend per week on) items such as fast food, entertainment, cigarettes and booze.

The transactions would also be exempt or at a lower rate of VAT.

If we can also stipulate to the government how our PRSI is spent, then I would agree.

Millicent

Mark200 wrote: »

Also, just because there may not be 'vacancies' doesn't mean there isn't opportunity to make money. What's wrong with the idea of someone setting up their own little business?

Because, as pointed out, the government disincentivizes it by not allowing any failed business owner to draw benefits. I would give my own business a go if I thought I could make it but I'd always be afraid of not having that safety net. It's a crazy system.

Mark200

Millicent wrote: »

Oh hell no. I was with you up till then. You're advocating for the nanny treatment of every unemployed person in the country? Having to announce in every supermarket that we are on benefits? How's the view in that ivory tower, seriously? I will not be treating like a child because I am claiming the benefits I have paid towards. No dice.

The idea of these benefits is for them to act as a safety net, so you can afford the essentials and will not go hungry. Fair enough if you feel you have contributed to what you are receiving, but there are plenty of people who haven't.

Kasabian

OisinT wrote: »

No. Furthermore, I think the dole payments should be put on a card that is only usable to purchase government approved categories of items (akin to the US Electronic Benefit Transfer Cards). These would not allow the purchase of (or would cap the amount available to spend per week on) items such as fast food, entertainment, cigarettes and booze.

The transactions would also be exempt or at a lower rate of VAT.

Dear God Oisin you are one step from going extreme right. People should never be restricted in life unless they have committed a crime and as far as I know being unemplyed isn't a crime.

AckwelFoley

desaparecidos wrote: »

Wohoo that's me!!

I keep thinking to myself, what did I personally do to deserve this rate of reduction in my net pay.

Did I buy a house I could never really afford, aspiring to a life style far beyond my means?
Did I live my life on credit like so many others?
Did I promise to cover the loses of private institutions gambling debts?
Did I mismanage the countries economy for years without recourse from the passive and apathetic public?
Did I vote in an incompetent bunch of corrupt gombeens year after year in the hope they would sort out my petty local issues?

I have to say no to all of the above.

I can really say without recourse that I did nothing to aid or help the fundamental causes of why we are in the position we are today.

I've had enough of this ****e. Revolution begins tonight.

Write a letter. Tell them its not your fault.

Im sure they'll make a special exemption for you

Millicent

Mark200 wrote: »

The idea of these benefits is for them to act as a safety net, so you can afford the essentials and will not go hungry. Fair enough if you feel you have contributed to what you are receiving, but there are plenty of people who haven't.

I don't feel, I know. The ire of some on the thread is directed at people who don't deserve it. I also don't agree with longterm dole recipients but people are lumping all dole recipients into the one.

Mark200 wrote: »

I believe self-employed people have the option of paying contributions towards such benefits, do they not?

Not as far as I know. Perhaps Oisin or Starbelgrade could clarify?

FreudianSlippers

Millicent wrote: »

I see where you are coming from with this. I'm not exactly opposed but with the failings of FAS, the current government's habit of massaging the dole numbers with their schemes and the joke that are the work placement programmes, I can see arguments against it too.

Well, in fairness that's not an argument against the idea... it's an argument for reforming FAS to it's real function.
Sure, why pay FAS execs to run the thing when FAS could be like a run by people for the people type situation - "employ" those who have experience running/teaching/etc. and are on the dole to run FAS and organise training for others.

FreudianSlippers

Millicent wrote: »

Oh hell no. I was with you up till then. You're advocating for the nanny treatment of every unemployed person in the country? Having to announce in every supermarket that we are on benefits? How's the view in that ivory tower, seriously? I will not be treating like a child because I am claiming the benefits I have paid towards. No dice.

It's just a card like any other, chip and pin.

Mark200

Millicent wrote: »

I don't feel, I know. The ire of some on the thread is directed at people who don't deserve it. I also don't agree with longterm dole recipients but people are lumping all dole recipients into the one.

True, of course people can be unfortunate enough to find themselves out of work at any time in their life. As far as I'm concerned things like benefit 'cards' and having to work for your dole are good ideas... but only to create an inventive for people to actively seek work.

Millicent wrote: »

Not as far as I know. Perhaps Oisin or Starbelgrade could clarify?

Well I was told by someone who works in the Dept of Social Protection that they can. But it was a casual conversation so maybe I heard wrong (I don't think I did though).

K-9

OisinT wrote: »

It pisses me off that I contribute largely to the dole and yet I can never receive it. :mad:

You can receive the dole if you satisfy the means test.

Unemployment Benefit, nope.

FreudianSlippers

K-9 wrote: »

You can receive the dole if you satisfy the means test.

Unemployment Benefit, nope.

I was told that this is accurate technically by social welfare, but they have basically said I can never satisfy the means test.