Budget day discussion thread. Your budget chat goes here.(Rules and links first post)

FreudianSlippers

Dionysus wrote: »

Doherty is lambasting Fine Gael policy, which appears to be to privatise semi-state companies and the like. Fine Gael's Reilly is justifying it. Browne cuts them off.

Need to know more about that topic.

Is privatising semi-states a part of FG's budget proposal?

Dionysus

OisinT wrote: »

Is privatising semi-states a part of FG's budget proposal?

It would appear that some element of privatisation is some sort of Fine Gael policy. Browne cut Reilly v Doherty off before Reilly got into it.

FreudianSlippers

Dionysus wrote: »

It would appear that some element of privatisation is some sort of Fine Gael policy. Browne cut Reilly v Doherty off before Reilly got into it.

I think it's a great idea... we've already seen the state can't run a fan let alone a company. Open up the markets and bring in competition and private ownership!

FoxT

Wohoo! Another Eircom-style gig. I cant ****ing wait..

desaparecidos

OisinT wrote: »

I think it's a great idea... we've already seen the state can't run a fan let alone a company. Open up the markets and bring in competition and private ownership!

Eircom has one of the highest line rental charges in the world and are utterly incompetent.

Selling off semi state companies will be a disaster.

OPENROAD

desaparecidos wrote: »

Eircom has one of the highest line rental charges in the world and are utterly incompetent.

Selling off semi state companies will be a disaster.

How do electricity prices compare to other European countries, the UK for example?

FreudianSlippers

FoxT wrote: »

Wohoo! Another Eircom-style gig. I cant ****ing wait..

Eircom are more successful now than they ever were. Meteor is a large competitor with O2 and Vodafone and this emobile thing (for old people?) seems to be working ok for them

FreudianSlippers

desaparecidos wrote: »

Eircom has one of the highest line rental charges in the world and are utterly incompetent.

Selling off semi state companies will be a disaster.

That's because we don't have proper competition in Ireland. I think that's down to legislation and corruption in government tbh.

It's confusing how we have people bitching about how much the heads of these companies are being paid and then when people suggest selling them off everyone gets all defensive.

Dan_Solo

Great that Pat Kenny and Ryan Tubridy will only be on 250k.
Everything else is stealing from the poor to give to the rich. Dooh Nibor if you like.

Dionysus

OisinT wrote: »

I think it's a great idea... we've already seen the state can't run a fan let alone a company. Open up the markets and bring in competition and private ownership!

I'm not so sure about it - although as I said I don't know the details of their policies on that issue. However, the ESB made a profit of €580 million in 2009, while Bord Gáis made a profit of €119 million, and if we're going to sell either of them, they will be undervalued in the current environment. If we keep them the state can continue to get the profit. If need be, later on when the economy improves they could be sold, but not at firesale prices.

FreudianSlippers

Dionysus wrote: »

I'm not so sure about it - although as I said I don't know the details of their policies on that issue. However, the ESB made a profit of €580 million in 2009, while Bord Gáis made a profit of €119 million, and if we're going to sell either of them, they will be undervalued in the current environment. If we keep them the state can continue to get the profit. If need be, later on when the economy improves they could be sold, but not at firesale prices.

I do agree with you there. But if they are making that much profit, then perhaps their execs deserve to be making what they make!?

Dan_Solo

OisinT wrote: »

I think it's a great idea... we've already seen the state can't run a fan let alone a company. Open up the markets and bring in competition and private ownership!

Yeah, our brilliant private sector only landed us 85 billion in debt and had to have its ass saved by Joe Public.

Dionysus

desaparecidos wrote: »

Eircom has one of the highest line rental charges in the world and are utterly incompetent.

Selling off semi state companies will be a disaster.

Eircom had the worst customer service I've ever encountered (NTL/UPC was a close second).

FreudianSlippers

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Yeah, our brilliant private sector only landed us 85 billion in debt and had to have its ass saved by Joe Public.

Sure, blame the private sector :rolleyes:

Dan_Solo

OisinT wrote: »

I do agree with you there. But if they are making that much profit, then perhaps their execs deserve to be making what they make!?

No, they're monopolies that are essential services and should be state owned.
If the water boards are privatised and charge 10c a litre I suppose you'd think that would be progress?

MardiB

I'm a little bewildered as to why OisinT is getting so much flack here? The governing and regulatory system currently existing in Ireland is massively flawed and somewhat corrupt. Sure the dogs on the street know that. Also while we must provide a social wefare sysyem for the unemployed/disabled/vunerable etc, It should not provide a comfortable alternative for those who choose not to work and there were many longterm unemployed during the boom years who could have easily worked but instead chose to milk our system. Before I get attacked for that statement, I am not for a second suggesting everyone was doing this but we all know it was for some a lifestyle choice.

Dan_Solo

OisinT wrote: »

Sure, blame the private sector :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:yourself. That's not an answer.
No private sector debt, no bailout. Simples.

OPENROAD

Dionysus wrote: »

I'm not so sure about it - although as I said I don't know the details of their policies on that issue. However, the ESB made a profit of €580 million in 2009, while Bord Gáis made a profit of €119 million, and if we're going to sell either of them, they will be undervalued in the current environment. If we keep them the state can continue to get the profit. If need be, later on when the economy improves they could be sold, but not at firesale prices.

Good point, though we are not in normal Economic circumstances /recession in Ireland so sadly I'm not sure if we have that luxury

Banjaxed82

OisinT wrote: »

Eircom are more successful now than they ever were.

Sorry, but I can tell you that Eircom are going down the shi**er. The only reason they haven't put money into broadband is because they don't have any! They've been raped by asset stripping companies over the last few years and this country also have a communications regulator who still thinks Eircom is Telecom Eireann. They're losing thousands of customers every week and have ridiculous amounts of debt. They can't even pay their own bills!

FreudianSlippers

Dan_Solo wrote: »

No, they're monopolies that are essential services and should be state owned.
If the water boards are privatised and charge 10c a litre I suppose you'd think that would be progress?

Of course, we'd have a top tier water infrastructure then.

Dan_Solo

MardiB wrote: »

I'm a little bewildered as to why OisinT is getting so much flack here? The governing and regulatory system currently existing in Ireland is massively flawed and somewhat corrupt. Sure the dogs on the street know that. Also while we must provide a social wefare sysyem for the unemployed/disabled/vunerable etc, It should not provide a comfortable alternative for those who choose not to work and there were many longterm unemployed during the boom years who could have easily worked but instead chose to milk our system. Before I get attacked for that statement, I am not for a second suggesting everyone was doing this but we all know it was for some a lifestyle choice.

The problem is that while nobody wants social welfare fraud or public sector inefficiency, this is all a smokescreen. Ireland is up you know which creek because the banker's buddies Fianna Fail decided private debt should a public responsibility. Do you really think there's 85 billion worth of dole cheats and civil service work dodgers in Ireland?

Dan_Solo

OisinT wrote: »

Of course, we'd have a top tier water infrastructure then.

Hey, why not charge €1,000,000 a litre then and make a fortune out of another essential amenity? Who cares if 99.999% of the population die?:D

FreudianSlippers

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Hey, why not charge €1,000,000 a litre then and make a fortune out of another essential amenity? Who cares if 99.999% of the population die?:D

Honestly? I think you're missing the point.

MardiB

Of course I don't think that and in my post I didn't imply that. I was referring to Oisins earlier posts about social wefare payments. I agree with you that we the tax payer are bailing out the fraudulent activity of the banks which makes my blood boil. I don't believe Sean Fitzpatrick or anyone is going to do any prison time either. It will be the usual one rule for them one for us long drawn out bull****
The problem is that while nobody wants social welfare fraud or public sector inefficiency, this is all a smokescreen. Ireland is up you know which creek because the banker's buddies Fianna Fail decided private debt should a public responsibility. Do you really think there's 85 billion worth of dole cheats and civil service work dodgers in Ireland?

Dionysus

OisinT wrote: »

I do agree with you there. But if they are making that much profit, then perhaps their execs deserve to be making what they make!?

I wouldn't agree with that because both firms are coming from a monopolistic/dominant position which is based entirely on having the power of the state behind them. This has made the job of McManus (ESB)and Mullins (Bord Gáis), for instance, much easier than private sector CEOs who did not have that foundation or support. There's an excellent article over on Britain's Guardian website comparing the CEO salaries in some Irish and British public sectors. Pádraig McManus's €750,000 salary package is way out of proportion to anything there.

FreudianSlippers

Dionysus wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that because both firms are coming from a monopolistic/dominant position which is based entirely on having the power of the state behind them. This has made the job of McManus (ESB)and Mullins (Bord Gáis), for instance, much easier than private sector CEOs who did not have that foundation or support. There's an excellent article over on Britain's Guardian website comparing the CEO salaries in some Irish and British public sectors. Pádraig McManus's €750,000 salary package is way out of proportion to anything there.

But then don't we come full circle and back to why not privatise and let the market take over?

Dan_Solo

OisinT wrote: »

Honestly? I think you're missing the point.

If you think charging 10c for a litre of water is a good thing you really didn't have much of a point to miss.

MardiB

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Hey, why not charge €1,000,000 a litre then and make a fortune out of another essential amenity? Who cares if 99.999% of the population die?:D

That's an absurd comment. privatisation=competition=lower prices

OPENROAD

Dionysus wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that because both firms are coming from a monopolistic/dominant position which is based entirely on having the power of the state behind them. This has made the job of McManus (ESB)and Mullins (Bord Gáis), for instance, much easier than private sector CEOs who did not have that foundation or support. There's an excellent article over on Britain's Guardian website comparing the CEO salaries in some Irish and British public sectors. Pádraig McManus's €750,000 salary package is way out of proportion to anything there.

Good article , will have a proper read when I have time, something that jumped out for me and always has is that David Cameron gets paid less than Cowen :eek:

Would love to know how they compare on expenses to get a really accurate comparison.

Dan_Solo

OisinT wrote: »

But then don't we come full circle and back to why not privatise and let the market take over?

It would be easier just to cut their salary, no?