Mentored thread for Conn Ultra training

Nialloooo

Thanks RQ,
ok thats it im in for sure now
RQ you said you did a quick marathon and the ultra last year,how did you train? did you do back to back long runs and if so did you run one quick and the other slower or how did you manage it? sorry looking at doing barca 11 also.

menoscemo

Nialloooo wrote: »

Thanks RQ,
ok thats it im in for sure now
RQ you said you did a quick marathon and the ultra last year,how did you train? did you do back to back long runs and if so did you run one quick and the other slower or how did you manage it? sorry looking at doing barca 11 also.

I am planning on doing Barca and Conn too. My idea is to refollow the same plan I used for DCM- the P&D 55 mpw programe, but with a small twist. I am going to move the mid week 'medium Long Run' to the weekend after the LSR and add a few miles to them.
e.g Week 8 has a 12 mile midweek run and 20 at the weekend, I'll do 20 on the saturday and maybe 16-18 on sunday (or vice versa), and do the other 3 runs during the week as normal.

I also plan at least one 30 miler maybe 2 or 3 weeks before conn...

Oisin11178

menoscemo wrote: »

I am planning on doing Barca and Conn too. My idea is to refollow the same plan I used for DCM- the P&D 55 mpw programe, but with a small twist. I am going to move the mid week 'medium Long Run' to the weekend after the LSR and add a few miles to them.
e.g Week 8 has a 12 mile midweek run and 20 at the weekend, I'll do 20 on the saturday and maybe 16-18 on sunday (or vice versa), and do the other 3 runs during the week as normal.

I also plan at least one 30 miler maybe 2 or 3 weeks before conn...

30 That will be big one. What sort of pace?

RacoonQueen

Nialloooo wrote: »

Thanks RQ,
ok thats it im in for sure now
RQ you said you did a quick marathon and the ultra last year,how did you train? did you do back to back long runs and if so did you run one quick and the other slower or how did you manage it? sorry looking at doing barca 11 also.

I followed P&D 55 mile plan then between Barcelona and Conn I did one weekend of back to back LSR's. 45 miles over Friday, Sat and Sunday.

Check out mithrils log, if I remember he started that when he was training for Conn last year.

menoscemo

Oisin11178 wrote: »

30 That will be big one. What sort of pace?

I'd say it'll be slow!! I was talking to Aimman about this before. We were maybe thinking of doing 3 x 10mile laps in Phoenix park and having fresh supplies in the cars to stock up on every lap.

It would be great to get a group out for this one.

Oisin11178

menoscemo wrote: »

I'd say it'll be slow!! I was talking to Aimman about this before. We were maybe thinking of doing 3 x 10mile laps in Phoenix park and having fresh supplies in the cars to stock up on every lap.

It would be great to get a group out for this one.

Ill be doing a 50km race 10 weeks before conn. Ill be on for a 30 mile jaunt with you guys deffo.

Mick Rice

I'd certainly try to make this run as well....

sarsfieldsrock

I might join in too. I will be planning a 30 miles around then and it will probably be 19thFeb. That is 2 weeks before Conn and 2 weeks after Barcelona.
I would be aiming it at a nice and handy 9:30 to 9:50 min pace per mile and hope to be done in 5 hours. So averaging 10min with rest breaks.

I suppose you could use this years Adidas 10 miler as a course?

Of course it will all depend on how I recover from Barca but I doubt that I will be drinking too much after that one so that should help.:D

hot to trot

Count me in. Ill watch your backs

menoscemo

sarsfieldsrock wrote: »

I might join in too. I will be planning a 30 miles around then and it will probably be 19thFeb. That is 2 weeks before Conn and 2 weeks after Barcelona.

I assume you mean the 19th March? If so, that sounds like a plan, we can make it a group date.

sarsfieldsrock

menoscemo wrote: »

I assume you mean the 19th March? If so, that sounds like a plan, we can make it a group date.

Yes of course. March 19th is the date then yes?

And what a pity RQ isn't doing the Conn Ultra. This run would have suited her.

Aimman

sarsfieldsrock wrote: »

II suppose you could use this years Adidas 10 miler as a course?

Keeping it in the park will be handy, though a bit monotonous, but then again, perfect mental training for an ultra right there.

As Menoscemo said, at least it will be an opportunity to have regular drinks / nutrition points if we have cars parked along the route, and people can drop in and out of the session at whatever time / distance suits them for anyone not training for an ultra, if its a meet and train session.

The session should be slow anyway, regardless of what marathon pace people have under the belt. A group of people will bring everyone along, rather then a bunch of individual runners dotted along the park dealing with the +26M on their own.

Once you pass 26.2M for the first time, the mind plays little tricks on you. You've just become an ultra runner for the first time, but there's no medal, tee shirt or finish line hype. Just a warm down and head off home as I found out. on my first time.

But do it with a group of people, and its an experience to re-live a half an hour later in the pub and something to boost the mental strength on race day. Actually, on reflection... anyone that can endure 30M in the Phoenix Park deserves a medal and tee shirt.

Oisin11178

Signed up tonight for the ultra:D

RacoonQueen

sarsfieldsrock wrote: »

Yes of course. March 19th is the date then yes?

And what a pity RQ isn't doing the Conn Ultra. This run would have suited her.

I'm not caving.:P

griffin100

Ok, time for some mentoring:)

I'm putting together a rough training plan based on various websites, advice on here, etc. I concious of the advice coming from Bazman elsewhere on the forum so rather than writing a detailed week by week plan at this early stage I'm currently just setting down training milestones that I need to hit at certain points in the coming weeks to keep me on target for Conn. I will then try on a weekly basis to tailor my training towards these milestones.

I see 30 miles being mentioned above for long runs. For the Conn Ultra is around 30 miles / 5hrs around the longest run people would aim for (is time on the feet or mileage more important or is it a mixture - I know for IM training time on the feet was the more important factor for my training plan)

For the longer races do people stick with their tried and trusted marathon runners or are there certain traits that should be present in an ultrarunner's runners?

I've seen mention of walking breaks built into long trainin sessions and the race itself, is this a good idea for a plodder like myself - 5 minute walk every 13 miles for example, or should they be more frequent?

Sorry about all of the basic questions but I'm sure I'll have more, always assuming that I can shift the niggle I have left over from DCM which is currently causing my left foot to swell up after every run (so I'm currently limited to the pool and the turbo:()

TFBubendorfer

I hope you don't mind me replying before Mick does. This is all just my personal opinion, of course.

griffin100 wrote: »

I see 30 miles being mentioned above for long runs. For the Conn Ultra is around 30 miles / 5hrs around the longest run people would aim for

Yes, my longest run was 30 miles and since I had a great race I'd opt for the same again.

griffin100 wrote:

is time on the feet or mileage more important or is it a mixture

Time on feet is more important. Having said that, I tend to start very slowly and comfortably and tend to accelerate during the run. Each 10 mile segment was faster than the previous one, the last one roughly at Connemara race pace.

griffin100 wrote:

For the longer races do people stick with their tried and trusted marathon runners or are there certain traits that should be present in an ultrarunner's runners?

I ran Connemara (and Dingle as well) in Lunaracers, which according to some people should not even be used for marathons, but I find them the perfect racing shoes for all distances. But you will be out there for a very long time and the most important issue by far is that the shoes are comfortable. You will need a good amount of cushioning.

ultraman1

griffin100 wrote: »

I've seen mention of walking breaks built into long trainin sessions and the race itself, is this a good idea for a plodder like myself - 5 minute walk every 13 miles for example, or should they be more frequent?
)

there is a theory that a 5 -1 running/walking stratergy is the most benificial,so 25 mins runnin to 5 min walkin or 5 miles to 1 mile and so on

Magnet

I`d reccommend no walking, slower running on the hills maybe but no walking, unless you haven`t enough training done on hills or you`re injured, you should run it all...(my opinion )

dietryin

Hi guys am going to try for the ultra in Conn this year and ws directed to this thread. I've done a couple of marathons but nothing like the times posted above, I'm more of a takein the sceanery type of plodder and at best am a sub 5hour finisher. But hey I enjoy it so game on! Think realistically an 8hour goal is my aim for Conn and anything below that will be brillant. My goals for this year are to complete Conn, Portumna 100k, Dingle Ultra and possibly Longford ultra...who knows for now the plan is to concentrate on getting Conn done and then focus on Portumna and Dingle.

I've taken a couple of weeks off running to try get the head in the zone again but have spent the time on doing leg, arm and core strengthing and also trying out different things/sports to try for crosstraining to take the pressure off always having to run to try mix things up a bit if things get to much.

Am going for time on the feet as opposed to miles per run to start with and am planning on two LSR back to back and two faster sessions with crosstraining and strenghting while the millage is still at a lowish stage. Am hoping this will stand to me in preventing injury when the going gets tough!

Am grateful for any comments tips and experiences from those with experience at these distances. Good luck to all in their training

Aimman

well, for starters, take one race at a time. Thats a lot of ultra running for your first year, after only doing two marathons. In particular, i think there is only one week between Longford and Dingle, so that might be difficult to manage.

For Conn, you should be able to use a standard marathon training plan and just double up on the LSRs for the weekend.

This year for Conn, I doubled the LSRs and just added some extra miles onto some of the mid week runs as the time got nearer. I also doubled up on runs at times, ie. 5M at lunchtime and 10 - 15 in the evening during some peak runs in mid week, but that was more preference then necessity. dont worry about speed training, it wont really contribute to your overall performance for an ultra at this stage. You need to keep focused on running for the 39.3 miles (with maybe some walking) and during the training, trying different forms of nutrition to see what the digestive system can handle. If you are planning to spend 8 hours on the road, gels and sports drinks aren't really going to cut it, you need to get used to solids on the run, whether its bananas, oranges, fig rolls, mars bars, potato cakes, pasta, jelly babies, theres a whole lot of things to try and I'm sure as the weeks go by, there'll be lots of discussions on what food to experiment with and why.

But definitely, one race at a time.

liamo123

Folks looking for advice in relation to accommodation for Conn... Dont know the area at all and am thinking of bringing the OH and girls with me..From a spectators point of view where would the best location be to look for accom..

Tks in advance...

Wally Runs

I booked into the station house hotel in Clifden, in the self catering apartments, €100 per night for a two bedroom, sleeps 4-6 (depending on size, I have 6,3 & 1). Call direct to them rather than on the web. Saves a booking fee. You have full access to the hotel and its pool etc. Also a bus leaves from outside for the Ultra and you can pick you number up there too.

griffin100

Last year we stayed in the Cliffen Glen holiday homes which are about a mile outside Clifden. Cost is about 350 for three nights in a 3 bed. Houses are basic but do the job. Details on www.dreamireland.com

I don't think Connemara is very spectator friendly as it can be hard to move around with the road closures, especially for the half.

Mick Rice

griffin100 wrote: »

Ok, time for some mentoring:)

I'm putting together a rough training plan based on various websites, advice on here, etc. I concious of the advice coming from Bazman elsewhere on the forum so rather than writing a detailed week by week plan at this early stage I'm currently just setting down training milestones that I need to hit at certain points in the coming weeks to keep me on target for Conn. I will then try on a weekly basis to tailor my training towards these milestones.

I see 30 miles being mentioned above for long runs. For the Conn Ultra is around 30 miles / 5hrs around the longest run people would aim for (is time on the feet or mileage more important or is it a mixture - I know for IM training time on the feet was the more important factor for my training plan)

For the longer races do people stick with their tried and trusted marathon runners or are there certain traits that should be present in an ultrarunner's runners?

I've seen mention of walking breaks built into long trainin sessions and the race itself, is this a good idea for a plodder like myself - 5 minute walk every 13 miles for example, or should they be more frequent?

Sorry about all of the basic questions but I'm sure I'll have more, always assuming that I can shift the niggle I have left over from DCM which is currently causing my left foot to swell up after every run (so I'm currently limited to the pool and the turbo:()

As we've all said before, a lot of this stuff is personal opinion and so please take anything I say in that light. I've never, ever done 30 mile training runs and don't personally believe that they're necessary. I work on the basis that each training run should have as it's objective the development of some ability that will help in racing. Obviously untras demand stamina/endurance in buckets but it's never been clear to me that I gain extra endurance by running 30 mile efforts rather than 23 - 24 miles. My experience has been that even with 24 mile training runs the rest of my training suffers whilst I recover from that hard effort and so there's a consequential price to be paid.

Stamina isn't the only quality that's needed to run ultras well of course and if you feel that you will derive extra confidence from completing a very long run in advance of the big day, that may well be a good enough reason to do one, but I'd encourage people not to believe that they're mandatory or that if they arrive in Connemara next year without doing such long runs that they've somehow sold yourself short.

On the subject of footwear, I don't think there's anything special to consider except to say that when you're embarking on any relatively high mileage training programme that you should stess the need to avoid injury. For a good number of years I've used SofSole insoles in my regular shoes to ass a little extra cushioning. There are loads of brands available (Sorbothane etc) that I believe are similar and I've found them helpful. I also run as much off-road stuff as I can to reduce wear and tear on the legs.

On walk breaks, I've never used tham and wouldn't really see them as necessary in a 39 mile ultra.

Mick Rice

It's already been suggested that a group run in Dublin might be a good idea and I'll certainly try to make that run. There is however one other option that propsective Conn Ultra runners might like to think about. My club organise an informal Connemara training run each year in early February that we call the 'Connemara Fun Run'. It's certainly not a race, just a bit of craic with some training on the side. We hire a bus and leave Galway very early on a Saturday morning and head out onto the course, aiming to be on the road by about 8:30am. We always have loads of people from outside of the club as well. The bus drives the marathon route and lets people off where ever they want and the idea is that we all make it back to Maam Cross at roughly the same time. The only cost is a share of the bus, which is usually very inexpensive. I usually run the full marathon route at an easy pace as a training run. Afterwards, we have a bite to eat in the hotel in Maam Cross or in Oughterard and get bussed back to Galway, usually by about 02:00pm. As well as the actual training involved it's a chance to see the course up close and personal and knowledge of the actual ground to be covered is very useful on the day.

I don't have a firm date yet for the day itself, but anyone here who wants to come along to familiarise themselves with the course and compare training notes would be most welcome. We can either gather a list on this thread or people can PM me directly.

Mick.

Aimman

Mick Rice wrote: »

My club organise an informal Connemara training run each year in early February that we call the 'Connemara Fun Run'. It's certainly not a race, just a bit of craic with some training on the side. We hire a bus and leave Galway very early on a Saturday morning and head out onto the course, aiming to be on the road by about 8:30am.
Mick.

I would definitely be interested in this. It would be good to tackle the 2nd half of the run again on fresher legs this time around before the race.

rainbow kirby

Mick Rice wrote: »

It's already been suggested that a group run in Dublin might be a good idea and I'll certainly try to make that run. There is however one other option that propsective Conn Ultra runners might like to think about. My club organise an informal Connemara training run each year in early February that we call the 'Connemara Fun Run'. It's certainly not a race, just a bit of craic with some training on the side. We hire a bus and leave Galway very early on a Saturday morning and head out onto the course, aiming to be on the road by about 8:30am. We always have loads of people from outside of the club as well. The bus drives the marathon route and lets people off where ever they want and the idea is that we all make it back to Maam Cross at roughly the same time. The only cost is a share of the bus, which is usually very inexpensive. I usually run the full marathon route at an easy pace as a training run. Afterwards, we have a bite to eat in the hotel in Maam Cross or in Oughterard and get bussed back to Galway, usually by about 02:00pm. As well as the actual training involved it's a chance to see the course up close and personal and knowledge of the actual ground to be covered is very useful on the day.

I don't have a firm date yet for the day itself, but anyone here who wants to come along to familiarise themselves with the course and compare training notes would be most welcome. We can either gather a list on this thread or people can PM me directly.

Mick.

Not doing the ultra, but this sounds like it would be a nice way to get in a decent long run before Barcelona!

dietryin

Like the idea of the run but was wondering if there is anyone else who is planning on 12min/miles for this race or would this be to slow for this run? Don't want to be responsible for keeing hungry runners from their grub or worse still their pints

Wally Runs

Now, after a few weeks off running due to a non-running injury, I am back his week. A little late in the day, but to date there does not appear to be too much fitness lost, a bit of weight put on for sure. I will put in a longer run this weekend to see how it feels.

I plan to follow my tried and trusted marathon schedule but throw in some extra LSR and have it peak at 30 miles rather than 26.

To pick up on food as raised earlier, I assume introducing them during the LSR as you might gels is the way to go. I plan to try bananas and jelly babies first as they are easy to come by when out and about. Anybody got suggestions on how often, not as if they have instructions printed on them.

TFBubendorfer

Wally Runs wrote: »

To pick up on food as raised earlier, I assume introducing them during the LSR as you might gels is the way to go. I plan to try bananas and jelly babies first as they are easy to come by when out and about. Anybody got suggestions on how often, not as if they have instructions printed on them.

I tried jelly babies once, in a training run, and it felt like they kept stubbornly sitting in my stomach.

I ate a banana in Dingle. I had stomach cramps for quite a while afterwards.

I can't take any of that stuff when running so I survive on gels (not a lot, I only had 3 or 4 in Dingle) and sports drink. I also had a granola bar, both in Connemara and Dingle and that worked well enough but I could not stomach another one after 26 miles. Connemara at 39 miles is more a long marathon than a real ultra and everything that works for a marathon should work there as well.

It's the same advice as always. Try it out in training first. If it works for you, great. If not, try something else.