Mentored thread for Conn Ultra training

griffin100 · 02-11-2010 11:20am

There are some interesting articles on ultra running and training plans here.

I'm comtemplating the Conn Ultra. To date I've only done two marathons, both this year. My first was part of an IM and was 4.42 (after over 7 hours on the bike:D) and I did DCM last week in 3.52. The rough plan for next year would be to do either standard Connemara marathon or the ultra, with an eye on an IM (possibly a DIM) later in the year.

Oisin11178 · 02-11-2010 12:59pm

May as well post my stats as ive decided to concentqate on ultras next year.
Ive ran 15 marathons, first in aug 09 in 3.40 and fastest in april 10 in 3.13.
Ive never ran an ultra buu have ran beyond marathon distance a few times. I have a 50k in january in England. Still deciding what pace ill run that at. Advice welcome.

aburke · 02-11-2010 2:36pm

The best, and indeed only, bit of advice for Connemarathon Ultra runners that I can offer is to sign up early.
Committing to take on the race in this thread doesn't guarantee you entry

RacoonQueen · 02-11-2010 5:41pm

aburke wrote: »

The best, and indeed only, bit of advice for Connemarathon Ultra runners that I can offer is to sign up early.
Committing to take on the race in this thread doesn't guarantee you entry

Are entries nearing close yet? Closed really early last year. Don't want to miss out if I do decide to run a Connemara event.

Wally - the Lore of Running has some stuff on Ultras in it.

aburke · 02-11-2010 6:17pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Are entries nearing close yet? Closed really early last year.

It will probably be the same as last year, if not a little earlier.
Last year we allowed Ultra entries a little longer, but that is decided on a year by year basis, so can't guarantee it will be like that this year.

Mick Rice · 04-11-2010 2:58pm

From looking back through the thread, I think we have the following posters planning or considering doing the Conne Ultra so far. I've appended a couple of notes beside most of the name names to remind us all where people are coming from, with some few exceptions. Feel free to fill in more notes or to change as you think best. If anyone can format this more clearly, please do. If I've left anyone out please jump in. If anyone else joins the thread it might be good if you added your name to this list and reposted.

Izoard - Multiple Marathons - pb 3:26
Menoscemo - Marathon PB 3:32, considering Barcellona 2011 five weeks before Conemara Ultra
Sarsfieldrock
Liamo123 -
Griffin100 - 2 Marathons in 2010. IM finisher. DCM 2010 - 3:52.
Slogger Jogger -
Racoon Queen -
Oisin 11178 - Multiple marathons - pb 3:10 - Target 6 hours
Hot to Trot - Multiple marathons and 2 ultras. Comrades May 2011
Morgoth - First Timer. 11 Marathons (3:09 PB).
Wally Runs - 12 marathons since 2007 (3:48 PB). Target is to finish.

My own experience is know to some I suppose, but obviously not all. I've run around 35 marathons and ultras at distances up to 100 miles and experimented with one 24 hour race last year. My marathon pb is 2:44:31 in Dublin this year and my Connemara Ultra pb is 4:28:33, also this year. I'm also old, balding and short :-)

As this thread is all about the Conemara Ultra any advice I'd offer has to be seen in the light of that particular race rather than training for ultras generally. To a large degree I still struggle to know how to train properly for longer ultras myself, but I'm hoping that some of my experience with this particular race will be helpful.

One point that has been raised here is the value of back-to-back long runs and I'd agree with the point of view that the applicability of this type of training is very much up to the individual. For myself, I've never used them and don't think they're essential, even for the longer distances. In preparing for this race there are a range of known techniques that anyone can use to prepare and, with the exception of a reasonably high volume of miles, I don't believe that any one of them is absolutely essential. The main reasons I don't use this method are that I don't recover well from efforts like that and that I believe it increases the chance of injury significantly. I always view distance training generally as an evolving process where we you place one metaphorical brick on top of another as training progresses. For me, back-to-back long runs knocks too many bricks off the stack at one go to be worth the investment. If you recover well from these runs and have used them profitably in the past then, of course, stick with them.

As we know the Connemara Ultra is basically an extended marathon. In my view the best way to train for it is to take whatever works well for you in terms of standard marathon training and then to adapt that approach slightly to take account of the longer distance involved. The most obvious adaptation to any standard marathon programme is to add extra miles to your training week, but there are many different ways of doing that. There can be more to it than just adding 5 miles to your Sunday long run. Less obvious adaptations are weight training, cross-training, hill work, extended tempo runs, plyometric stretching and running daily doubles. I believe that we all need to select from this broad palette of options the techniques that suit us best. If we're interested and engaged in the process there's a greater chance we'll follow through on the initial commitment. I'd also encourage people to experiment with the training methods that they've not tried before. There is a tendency amongst many runners to stick with the 'tried and tested' ways of training and that came sometimes get in the way of new, more interesting and more effective ways of preparing for the big day.

More later.

Izoard · 04-11-2010 4:08pm

I think I'll frame that post, Mick!

Great to hear that about the back-to-backs...was never a fan for precisely that reason.

The cross-training aspect to extend marathon endurance is also music to my ears

liamo123 · 04-11-2010 5:21pm

Where We Are

From looking back through the thread, I think we have the following posters planning or considering doing the Conne Ultra so far. I've appended a couple of notes beside most of the name names to remind us all where people are coming from, with some few exceptions. Feel free to fill in more notes or to change as you think best. If anyone can format this more clearly, please do. If I've left anyone out please jump in. If anyone else joins the thread it might be good if you added your name to this list and reposted.

Izoard - Multiple Marathons - pb 3:26
Menoscemo - Marathon PB 3:32, considering Barcellona 2011 five weeks before Conemara Ultra
Sarsfieldrock
Liamo123 - 5 Marathons in last 12mths.PB:2.59.02..also doing Barca in March
Griffin100 - 2 Marathons in 2010. IM finisher. DCM 2010 - 3:52.
Slogger Jogger -
Racoon Queen -
Oisin 11178 - Multiple marathons - pb 3:10 - Target 6 hours
Hot to Trot - Multiple marathons and 2 ultras. Comrades May 2011
Morgoth - First Timer. 11 Marathons (3:09 PB).
Wally Runs - 12 marathons since 2007 (3:48 PB). Target is to finish.

My own experience is know to some I suppose, but obviously not all. I've run around 35 marathons and ultras at distances up to 100 miles and experimented with one 24 hour race last year. My marathon pb is 2:44:31 in Dublin this year and my Connemara Ultra pb is 4:28:33, also this year. I'm also old, balding and short :-)

As this thread is all about the Conemara Ultra any advice I'd offer has to be seen in the light of that particular race rather than training for ultras generally. To a large degree I still struggle to know how to train properly for longer ultras myself, but I'm hoping that some of my experience with this particular race will be helpful.

One point that has been raised here is the value of back-to-back long runs and I'd agree with the point of view that the applicability of this type of training is very much up to the individual. For myself, I've never used them and don't think they're essential, even for the longer distances. In preparing for this race there are a range of known techniques that anyone can use to prepare and, with the exception of a reasonably high volume of miles, I don't believe that any one of them is absolutely essential. The main reasons I don't use this method are that I don't recover well from efforts like that and that I believe it increases the chance of injury significantly. I always view distance training generally as an evolving process where we you place one metaphorical brick on top of another as training progresses. For me, back-to-back long runs knocks too many bricks off the stack at one go to be worth the investment. If you recover well from these runs and have used them profitably in the past then, of course, stick with them.

As we know the Connemara Ultra is basically an extended marathon. In my view the best way to train for it is to take whatever works well for you in terms of standard marathon training and then to adapt that approach slightly to take account of the longer distance involved. The most obvious adaptation to any standard marathon programme is to add extra miles to your training week, but there are many different ways of doing that. There can be more to it than just adding 5 miles to your Sunday long run. Less obvious adaptations are weight training, cross-training, hill work, extended tempo runs, plyometric stretching and running daily doubles. I believe that we all need to select from this broad palette of options the techniques that suit us best. If we're interested and engaged in the process there's a greater chance we'll follow through on the initial commitment. I'd also encourage people to experiment with the training methods that they've not tried before. There is a tendency amongst many runners to stick with the 'tried and tested' ways of training and that came sometimes get in the way of new, more interesting and more effective ways of preparing for the big day.

More later.[/QUOTE]

menoscemo · 04-11-2010 5:28pm

Where We Are

Izoard - Multiple Marathons - pb 3:26
Menoscemo - Marathon PB 3:32, Doing Barcellona 2011 five weeks before Conemara Ultra, considering racing it.
Sarsfieldrock
Liamo123 - 5 Marathons in last 12mths.PB:2.59.02..also doing Barca in March
Griffin100 - 2 Marathons in 2010. IM finisher. DCM 2010 - 3:52.
Slogger Jogger -
Racoon Queen -
Oisin 11178 - Multiple marathons - pb 3:10 - Target 6 hours
Hot to Trot - Multiple marathons and 2 ultras. Comrades May 2011
Morgoth - First Timer. 11 Marathons (3:09 PB).
Wally Runs - 12 marathons since 2007 (3:48 PB). Target is to finish.

Izoard · 04-11-2010 5:45pm

Izoard · 04-11-2010 5:46pm

Damn, not as pretty as I'd hoped!:)

Maybe someone else has better table skills...

Oisin11178 · 04-11-2010 6:30pm

Great post mick. Im doing a bit of core work already, cant stand the crosstrainer but i do a bit of cycling. Ive got an 4 marathons planned between now and conn, also other ultra in janurary. Its 50km and at the moment im planning to do it somewhere between 8 and 8.15 min miles.

hot to trot · 04-11-2010 7:37pm

Izoard. Hoping to do my marathon just sub 4 soon but I havent the foggiest notion of what kind of time that might translate to in Connemara.

Fill in whatever you think might be appropriate

Izoard · 04-11-2010 8:48pm

Izoard wrote: »

Name|Experience|Target
Izoard|14 Marathons + 1 IM PB 3.26|Sub 7
Menoscemo| PB 3.32|???
Sarsfieldrock|???|???
Liamo123|5 Marathons in 12 months PB 2.59|???
Griffin100|2 Marathons + 1 IM PB 3.52|???
Slogger Jogger|???|???
Racoon Queen|Legend:)|???
Oisin 11178|Multiple Marathons PB 3.10|Sub 6
Hot to Trot|Multiple Marathons + 2 Ultras|Sub 7
Morgoth|11 Marathons PB 3.09|???
Wally Runs|12 Marathons PB 3.48|Finish

griffin100 · 04-11-2010 9:09pm

Fantastic post Mick. A lot of what you talk about as potential training options fits well with what I was planning for for the next few months, especially cross training, hill runs (and cycles) and double run session days. Must try and come up with a target time...........I think I'm gonna enjoy this challenge.

Lex Luther · 04-11-2010 10:51pm

griffin100 wrote: »

Fantastic post Mick. A lot of what you talk about as potential training options fits well with what I was planning for for the next few months, especially cross training, hill runs (and cycles) and double run session days. Must try and come up with a target time...........I think I'm gonna enjoy this challenge.

I KNEW you'd end up doing this .......good luck mate !

griffin100 · 04-11-2010 11:37pm

Lex Luther wrote: »

I KNEW you'd end up doing this .......good luck mate !

Cheers, I'll leave the sub 3 hr marathons to you. Best of luck in New York.

Aimman · 05-11-2010 12:22am

Oisin11178 · 05-11-2010 2:04am

Which 6 Eamonn?

Woddle · 05-11-2010 10:32am

Episode 24 of marathon talk might be worth a listen
http://www.marathontalk.com/archive/2010/6/23/episode-24-scott-jurek.html
It involves an interview with Scott Jurek

Aimman · 05-11-2010 3:03pm

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Which 6 Eamonn?

Well,

Art O'Neill Challenge
Connemara 39.3
Portumna 100k
Conn100M
Longford 39.3 Ultra (have to be one of the 1st to do that one)
Dingle 50M

I'd like to have a crack at them all, but last 3 are too close to each other

mithril · 05-11-2010 3:22pm

Following the thread with interest, although I think I will be skipping Conn next year to try something different. I finished in 4:59 last year.

Back to back runs worked well for me - although as Mick point out are not for everyone - initially easy jogging on a very hilly route in Wicklow or 3 Rock mountain, and then closer to the day, race pace training on a circuit of Howth-Sutton.

Every loop of Howth Head is about 11 K in distance, and the hill is very similar in profile and elevation to final third (half marathon section) of the Ultra.

For me, the key workout was 3 laps on Saturday and another 3 on Sunday at race pace which was roughly equivalent distance to the race distance spread over 2 days.
I took Friday and Monday as rest days so I was fresh going into the week-end and had time to recover.

At the end of every lap, I stopped at the car, and practised re-fuelling strategy. Water, gels, Lucozade and a Viper caffeinated bar worked well for me.

hot to trot · 05-11-2010 8:24pm

Mithril, I am interested in your Howth runs. I did it once when up visiting. Which direction is similar to COnnemara? I ran from Sutton uphill to the summit and down to Howth and then turned around and ran back up to the summit and down to Sutton. I thought the Howth village to uphill was steeper than the other ascent.
Just wondering what kind of hill I need to prepare for .

Nialloooo · 05-11-2010 8:52pm

Hi Guys,
Reg for this last year but picked up an injury so back to have a crack at it this year, i have only 4 marathons under my belt, PB 3.58 (dub this year), im just hoping to get around.
i have a question that i can find the answer to on the conn website...i can find the cut off times for ultra runners at half and full marathon but is there a cut off overall ie must you finishes before a certain time??

mithril · 05-11-2010 9:07pm

hot to trot wrote: »

Mithril, I am interested in your Howth runs. I did it once when up visiting. Which direction is similar to COnnemara? I ran from Sutton uphill to the summit and down to Howth and then turned around and ran back up to the summit and down to Sutton. I thought the Howth village to uphill was steeper than the other ascent.
Just wondering what kind of hill I need to prepare for .

Sutton up-hill to the summit and down to the village is closer to the Connemara profile, I believe.

Magnet · 06-11-2010 11:42pm

Nialloooo wrote: »

Hi Guys,
Reg for this last year but picked up an injury so back to have a crack at it this year, i have only 4 marathons under my belt, PB 3.58 (dub this year), im just hoping to get around.
i have a question that i can find the answer to on the conn website...i can find the cut off times for ultra runners at half and full marathon but is there a cut off overall ie must you finishes before a certain time??

No cut off afaik, going by 2010`s results the last woman home was 8:44 so run the first 26.2 in 4hrs and you still have 4:44 to get up the last 13.1....

RacoonQueen · 06-11-2010 11:47pm

Taken from the FAQ

WHAT ARE THE CUTOFF TIMES?

There are cut off times for the Ultra marathon as follows 2 hours thirty minutes for the first 13 miles and five hours for 26 miles. Anyone making slower progress than this will be removed from the course.

Magnet · 07-11-2010 5:20pm

oh right "Irish cut-off times"
I like it....:D

Nialloooo · 08-11-2010 10:18am

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Taken from the FAQ

Hi RQ
Yes i spotted that, but it is unclear if there is a cut off time after the 26 mile mark, if you get to 26 miles before 5 hours is the next cut off 7.5hrs? given 2.5 hours allowed per half before this??

RacoonQueen · 08-11-2010 11:52am

Nialloooo wrote: »

Hi RQ
Yes i spotted that, but it is unclear if there is a cut off time after the 26 mile mark, if you get to 26 miles before 5 hours is the next cut off 7.5hrs? given 2.5 hours allowed per half before this??

I have a vague memory of it being 8 hours the first year I did it in 2009. It did say it on the site at the time so maybe they've removed the cut off for the final 13.1

Mentored thread for Conn Ultra training

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