Off-Topic Thread

nesf

A final point about audio is that as with computers you get bottlenecks. Just as it's a waste of money to match up an old dual core processor with a GTX580, matching very good speakers or headphones with a (comparatively) poor sound sound like on board audio (or vice versa) will be a waste of money. You need to match your equipment at all levels (some people are even into really expensive cables and interconnectors for audio, I'm not as to get to level where these may even make some difference (which, as someone from a physics background I'm not even convinced of) you're talking family car prices for your speaker set up. An extremely rough rule of thumb that I've seen quoted around the place is that your sound source (be it DAC or whatever) should cost around half of what you spent on speakers. Though this isn't strictly true because of Chinese companies starting to produce very aggressively priced but acceptable quality gear at the lower levels.

Anyway, should I shut up about computer audio? Do people even care?

ShadowHearth

Sorry, not really m8

I have that xfi blaster gamer sound card on old pc and it is mostly pain in a hole.

I got on board 7.1 ( using only 5.1 ) and is more then enough.

Ofc you will allways get a sound junkies who will go for best in the market for theyr music setups.

P.s good morning m8

nesf

ShadowHearth wrote: »

P.s good morning m8

Good night you mean, two kids running high fevers combined with my insomnia = night shift for me.

And yeah, you'll understand my analogy here I think, Mercs look really overpriced until you've sat behind the wheel and driven one. Then they're merely expensive.


Edit: Creative's drivers for Vista onwards are, well, hellish. Other companies actually give a damn and don't give out drivers that make the card better off as an expensive paperweight.

ShadowHearth

nesf wrote: »

Good night you mean, two kids running high fevers combined with my insomnia = night shift for me.

And yeah, you'll understand my analogy here I think, Mercs look really overpriced until you've sat behind the wheel and driven one. Then they're merely expensive.


Edit: Creative's drivers for Vista onwards are, well, hellish. Other companies actually give a damn and don't give out drivers that make the card better off as an expensive paperweight.

Ah m8. Maybe you will get some sleep now? Get mummy for day shift so!

nesf

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Ah m8. Maybe you will get some sleep now? Get mummy for day shift so!

Mummy deserves her lie in, so I'm awake until her and the kids get up!

deejer

I have been wondering about this. I have a Crosshair IV MB which according to the spec has an SupremeFX X-Fi sound card built in (I know very little when it comes to audio).

I looked at getting a sound card and the Asus Xonar DG has good reviews with a reasonable price but I wasnt sure it could offer any more that I have already. I only have average speakers but have a good headset.

The Xonar DX seems like a bit much to be spending on a sound card for me. I am planning upgrading my speakers (its in the queue) so a sound card would be part of that upgrade too.

But anyway, just wondering if the DG would be better than my current sound card??

Serephucus

Thanks for posting all that nesf. I've been interested for a while to know just how much the budget sound cards are worth. Creative drivers can be a right pain in the hole. After a few reinstalls though my Forte seems to be going strong now.

After Christmas, I'll let you know what it's like going from budget surround to decent surround (X-540 -> Z906), and we'll see if the sound card makes a difference there too.

@deejer: IMO, the DX isn't enough to be spending. Mind you, that's mainly because I wanted a sound card that supported DTS, given that I knew I'd be getting a speaker upgrade.

nesf

deejer wrote: »

But anyway, just wondering if the DG would be better than my current sound card??

Probably. The issue is that the XFI onboard could have a good chip but it'll be exposed to a lot of electrical noise by being on the motherboard and this can cause static and other problems in the sound. A separate card will be generally better. An external card will be better again. You won't find a good external for £20 though.

Bear in mind though that I've never listened to your soundcard and am going from general principles here. The XFI onboard is a fair bit better than the Realtech stuff most boards have so you'll see less of a gain with a separate card. The thing the XFI on board lacks 5.1 or 7.1 optical out and other things if you went for a good surround sound system in the future.

The main bitching I see from a quick google is that the XFI on-board is a software based processing card rather than a hardware based processor card and this is a bad thing. We have dedicated audio chips on sound cards for a reason after all! That and I'm having trouble finding any mentions of the card on the better audio sites which isn't a good sign.

nesf

Serephucus wrote: »

@deejer: IMO, the DX isn't enough to be spending. Mind you, that's mainly because I wanted a sound card that supported DTS, given that I knew I'd be getting a speaker upgrade.

Yar, this is budget sound card territory that I'm talking about here. The better Xonar's will be more what you're looking for if you're putting good speakers on the system. Or even better go for an outboard DAC and go a bit mad.

nesf

Serephucus wrote: »

Thanks for posting all that nesf. I've been interested for a while to know just how much the budget sound cards are worth. Creative drivers can be a right pain in the hole. After a few reinstalls though my Forte seems to be going strong now.

After Christmas, I'll let you know what it's like going from budget surround to decent surround (X-540 -> Z906), and we'll see if the sound card makes a difference there too.

I'm not sure you can get good surround sound at that price level to be honest. Logitech do some decent enough cheap stuff (i.e. why I got their speakers) but with your headphones which are good you might be disappointed with the sound out of the Z906 system.

Brian

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/

Read some of the articles here for good audio info.

nesf

So my Fiio E10 arrived: USB in, Coaxial Out, Line Out, Amplified Headphone Out. Nice robust metal casing too.

Listening tests to follow etc. Will edit them into this post.

Edit:

Initial impressions are good. Little to no hiss with either my speakers or Sennheiser HD-25 IIs. Decent improvement over the Xonar card for both (to be expected, the Xonar is in a case with 2 GPUs which is less than ideal). The DAC only Line-Out (i.e. no amplifier in the line) is a nice touch at this price level, if you have powered/active speakers you generally don't want an amp between your speakers and the sound source as two amps in series introduce distortion.

nesf

Baza210 wrote: »

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/

Read some of the articles here for good audio info.

Interesting and nicely technical, I have some issues though. He tested a Fiio E9 using a pair of low impedance IEMs. The E9 is designed from the ground up for high impedance full sized headphones. A side remark at the end about poor performance with low impedance IEMs would be relevant but he went too much into it too early making the device seem much worse than it is despite the testing method being unsuited to the device's purpose.

Then he's not a professional reviewer, so maybe I'm being too harsh.

deejer

Just wanted to wish everyone here a happy xmas and hope Santa brings what you are looking for

My girlfriend just gave me a Corsair AX1200 so Im happy . She knows me so well

Tea_Bag

let me know when she becomes single!!


on the topic of sound, im getting my exgirlfriend to get me a pair of Sennheiser HD448's from the states where she lives now. nowhere near top of the range, but a steal at $36 delivered. its not like I actually need headphones because I do my gaming with a good pair of turtle beaches. while you lot might think very little of them I imagine, I think theyre fantastic quality. durable as hell, I literally throw them everywhere, quickly hook up to my XBox, and crisp sound that lets me pick up the faintest of footsteps to the point that I pawn so much I often get accused off cheating. all the while actively controlling the 'ingame chat' audio volume (or turn it off completely for the XBox. there are an impressive amount of 12 year olds who have apparently had relations with my mum)

I'm also interested in you're upgrade serephucus. I've the same x-540s and would upgrade when I get some cash. I paid €20 delivered for mine from adverts so they have done well!

unfortunately, I'm gonna be suck with onboard sound for three foreseeable future. I've literally got no room in my motherboard what with 6950CF, WiFi card and soon to be my gtx460 for physX. externals don't come cheap and I've no space for it either.

Bonesy.

New to Building and am ordering gaming build parts and am wondering how many fans will I need?

Hank Scorpio

Bonesy. wrote: »

New to Building and am ordering gaming build parts and am wondering how many fans will I need?

Depends on what you're buying and what case and how many fans you can fit The cpu has its own dedicated fan/cooler(a stock one is provided with all cpus and is generally fine, but not for overclocking) , and alot of decent cases include there own fans.

Bonesy.

Well I'm looking at a XIGMATEK Asgard III Case with Window - 36e, comes with 1 fan and has space for 3 more, I would be using the rig for gaming, and am planning on getting blue LEDs might get (if I have enough in the budget) an Antec Dark Fleet Case instead, also do you know what the tubes that hold the wires together are called? I can't seem to find them on Dabs

ShadowHearth

i know what i want for XMAS

will have to tune in tommorow to see it in action!

Monotype

ShadowHearth wrote: »

E8ZVZb56jC4&feature=g-all-c&context=G2bc926eFAAAAAAAADAA


i know what i want for XMAS

will have to tune in tommorow to see it in action!

Fixed your post?

Bonesy.

Hmmm.. Antec Dark Fleet DF-85 or Antec 900 Case..

ShadowHearth

Monotype wrote: »

Fixed your post?

hmmm no m8, i fixed myself, didnt realised it was broken lol

weirdly enough youtube switched the codes for videos...


anyway, i fixed here now


i find him really interesting. he is really good reviewer and presenter of new products too!

deconduo

Bonesy. wrote: »

Hmmm.. Antec Dark Fleet DF-85 or Antec 900 Case..

Neither :P Better cases for the money out there.

Bonesy.

deconduo wrote: »

Neither :P Better cases for the money out there.

Ahh but do they look as amazing

deconduo

Bonesy. wrote: »

Ahh but do they look as amazing

Both of them are terrible cases and massively overpriced :pac: You might like the look of it but you'll be hours trying to do any sort of cable management. Get something nice like the NZXT Phantom or Fractal Design Define instead.

Same price as the DF-85:
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38376&agid=632
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=49189&agid=632

Same price as the 900:
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=53633&agid=631
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=36379&agid=631

They come in a nice range of colours as well, if you'd prefer white, grey, red etc. Maybe you might like this one

Serephucus

So, got the Z906's unboxed earlier today. Set up, etc. Plugged in phone (only thing with my at my paretns' place), turned on music, and damn, it was great!

Five minutes later, the fuse in the sub blew.

Komplett's pickup point is closed all next week, and the whole thing would cost a fortune to post, so no surround sound for me for at least a week and a half, yay!

nesf

Serephucus wrote: »

So, got the Z906's unboxed earlier today. Set up, etc. Plugged in phone (only thing with my at my paretns' place), turned on music, and damn, it was great!

Five minutes later, the fuse in the sub blew.

Komplett's pickup point is closed all next week, and the whole thing would cost a fortune to post, so no surround sound for me for at least a week and a half, yay!

Feck, bad luck.

Tea_Bag

doesn't that often happen with their top end stuff, and you just replace the fuse yourself and not worry about it again?
it was quite popular with the z5500 our whatever its called.

happy holidays people. I just had 3 hours sleep and I'm wide awake now for no reason.

nesf

nesf wrote: »

Eh, some of the gaming headsets give decent sound (for the money) and surround sound is useful in some games for some people (i.e. ones whose ears suit surround sound via headphone). My HD 25s are better for sound quality than my Steelseries 7Hs but they were twice the price so they'd want to be. Really and truly good quality headphones are not needed with gaming. It's not like you'll be doing any critical listening while fragging someone now will you?

If I was spending more than £100 I'd go with headphones from an audio company though. You'll be glad of it (with a nice DAC and/or amp) for music later.


Edit: On the Tiamats, I've heard good things about the sound positioning and bad things about the sound quality for the price. Depends on what you're after really.


Edit 2: Because I can't sleep, the kids are awake and one of them is running a fever of 40...

If you care a lot about listening to music and don't have a good speaker set up it's hard to recommend a gaming headset. If you have the money then something like the Sennheiser HD25-IIs or similar will give you much better returns if you start looking at amps and DACs down the line. Good open headphones like the better Grados and Sennheisers HD5xx or HD6xx series will be better again assuming you don't need isolation. It doesn't matter how good your soundcard or DAC is if your headphones can't show the quality of them. That said, if all you're looking for is positional sound for FPS play then it's hard to recommend stereo headsets without Dolby Virtual 7.1. Surround sound headsets will never approach a decent surround sound speaker set up but you can't take your speakers to a LAN without you and that's where a gaming headset really shines. Be warned though, once you start down the road of good headphones, it starts getting expensive quickly. You'll want a DAC rather than relying on onboard sound, you'll want an amp too (personally I think Fiio has some good products here at a nice price point though I just had an E7 die on me so I'm a little annoyed with them at the moment).

If it's purely about gaming and convenience and sound quality is a secondary issue for you, something sub £100 like the Steelseries 7H headphones (they have a design flaw that has affected some people, though I haven't experienced it), or the Siberia V2s or whatever are not a bad option. If you want to listen to music too at that price point you'd want to at least consider Koss Porta Pros or better along with a decent desktop mic if positional sound isn't an issue for you. If you have more money and care about music and need good isolation then the Sennheiser HD25-IIs with a decent but cheap DAC/amp combo like the Fiio E7 or E10, are superb in my opinion without going into crazy money territory (oh how I want a pair of HD650s and a proper DAC and amp!). Another option is something like the HD25-IIs with the Steelseries Siberia USB Soundcard (it has enough gain to drive them well) which will give you 7.1 though not as good as the Tiamats.

So I wanted to revisit this after getting a chance to do some testing with my E10 DAC/amp with both the Steelseries and HD25-IIs. With a regular soundcard the difference between them isn't that enormous for the price difference but add in some decent amplification and the HD25-IIs come alive in comparison to the 7Hs which don't really scale well at all with better amplifying.

Was I surprised by this? Not hugely. The HD25-IIs were designed with amping in mind, the 7Hs weren't (70 Ohm vs 32 Ohm impedance). I just thought I'd point out the more marked differences between the two if one is going with a separate amp instead of just plugging straight into a soundcard and caution on the need for better amping if one is going to get the most out of headphones like the HD 25-IIs.

Brian

Just to point out, there are high-end cans that don't need amping to sound close to their best. Audio Technica's AD-line springs to mind ... even the AD900s sound decent straight from a soundcard.

I have AD700s which I tested with a FiiO E7 - there was an improvement, but it wasn't enormous.