Suicide is OK

CDfm

Hi - In the Gentlemens Club there is a sticky of Helplines and Support Groups covering the A-Z of issues including suicide & mental health support for both men & women. Everything from anorexia onwards .

Here is the link

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055685061

SparkyTech

Only skimmed through the first and last parts of this thread and would like to specificaly refute the suggestion put forward by others that suicide is selfish or egotistical.

Having lived through moments of severe depression, been on anti-depressants and had group therapy/councelling for a number of issues throguhout my childhood and into my early adult life, I know how mood swings and severe dark states of mind can cause ones sense of rationability and logic to go out the window. Mental health can cause you to turn fragile and vunreable so quickly, and often the way you say/do/feel and act can quickly spiral out of control.

Im not suggesting that anyone with mental health issues can abidcate themseleves completly from all responsibility for their own actions, there has to be a certain amount of self motivation that comes from within to change your outlook on life, but when you are at your lowest ebb apathy can set in and feelings of helplessness and despair can overwhelm you.

I firmly believe people who committ suicide have lost all hope and cannot find a way to come through the worst of it. There is a ridiculous amount of stigma in Ireland regarding mental health and our culture is still ingrained with the notion that to talk about your feelings or admit you suffer from depression makes you ''less of a man'' or ''weak''. How are men, in practicular just from my own point of view as a man, supposed to express their feelings and worrys if they live in a society that condones openly talking about the problems that are eating them up inside? It gets bottled up and manifests itself later on, the results bieng all to apparant when mental health is affected and for some, unfortunatly, suicide is the only means out.

Ive been through the HSE systym and its not condusive to holistic help or the needs of paitents. Put simply, if it wasn't for a loving and supportive family, I imagine it would be very hard to navagate the public services yourself and attain a decent level of service from them. Mental health services in this country are woefuly underfunded and not promoted or advocated for by the powers that be.

Those who take their own lives are not of rational mind, often feel they are at the end of their theather, feel their familys would not understand or would be better off without them, too overwhelemed with sadness or afraid to speak out and seek help. To suggest they are doing it for selfish reasons or their own ego is quite frankly, ridiculous, IMO.

stephendevlin

alex73 wrote: »

Suicide is the most lame excuse !,,, Egoistic and selfish. YOUR pain may end... but all those around you start. maybe some people are really mentally ill.... who knows...
Father i knew took his life leaving wife and kids.... Poor women,

SUICIDE IS SELFISH SELFISH SELFISH!!

I agree totally and its really a mindset that can be changed and caused by issue in the medium term or depression regarding a matter. I know Depression is a serious matter and if you have ever been there its not a nice place.

Ive watched a program recently that suggested that your diet can also affect depression and there are natural ways of giving your system a boost to overcome it. (Dont know about any truth but am sure people would love for thier families or loved ones to try anything) It was a herbal remedy.

If I remember the name of the documentary I will post it.

David Matthew

I started a thread in the philosophy forum entitled The Question of Suicide; the discussion brushed on many of the issues raised in this thread, if people are interested in checking it out.

In the interests of staying on-thread however, I will quote something of what I said myself in response to the accusation that suicide is completely irrational and/or selfish:

David Matthew wrote:

Thought experiment: You are tied up, facing the prospect of being slowly crushed by a steamroller which approaches you from the distance (pardon the gruesome nature of this - it does have a point though), and in your one free hand you have a gun.
The options are: end your existence yourself, quickly, or endure a far worse suffering.

I would say in a case like this, that suicide was indeed the 'rational' choice.

And before anyone claims that such a case is ridiculously far-fetched, I would urge you to do a little more research into the background of suicides. It is usually an act decided upon, deliberated in advance, the pros and cons weighed in so far as they are perceived (no different to how a normal person weighs up their options), and hence, a rational act through and through.

What people ignore, and often do not possess adequate depth of feeling to appreciate, is the degree of suffering the suicidal person is enduring and/or anticipating. They see their future like an approaching steamroller, waiting to crush all their hopes and dreams. Or life is indeed crushing them there and then, and they can take it no more.

Of course, I'm not claiming that there is an objective 'threshold' beyond which everybody will choose to end their lives; we all have our own thresholds, consisting of infinitely complex factors. In a suicide, the threshold is felt to be broken; they would rather risk, or indeed embrace, oblivion, than endure existence any longer. Yes, it might be 'the' easy option from that point of view, but never, never is it an easy option. Suffering has the potential to take on such depth so as to overshadow everything.

Ticktactoe

David Matthew wrote: »

I started a thread in the philosophy forum entitled The Question of Suicide; the discussion brushed on many of the issues raised in this thread, if people are interested in checking it out.

In the interests of staying on-thread however, I will quote something of what I said myself in response to the accusation that suicide is completely irrational and/or selfish:

People may argue that with the correct help the steamroller may never reach you and therefore you have ended your life and a part of your family and friends lives too.

Because of the situation, a 'rational' conclusion cannot be achieved.

P.S i like your example