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Is Emigrating the Only way to Find Work and have a Better life These days?

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    #212
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    More abuse in the guise of pseudo amateur physcology.

    More insults couched in waffle.
    Why the hell I would be begrudging a demographic that have effectively dispossesed and disenfranchised themselves is beyond me.

    Why berate them for making personal choices that have no bearing on you?
    I am proud to be an Irishman in Ireland working everyday to make it a better place to live in.
    By bellyaching on an internet forum? I'm sure you're making great progress. Care to expand on exactly how you're making it a "better place to live in", beyond your current endeavours?
    Am I happy, overall I would say-Yes.
    Good for you but a lot of people aren't and their only option is to leave.
    My solution is very evident if you take the time to read: Responsibility. You want the trappings of a healthy society then you engage fully with society and invest in it.
    It's amazing how you've taken such a massively complex problem and boiled it down to this hilariously simplistic reason.
    There is more to life than money and having a state of the art Tesco on your doorstep.
    Sure but for some people that's what makes them happy and they should be free to pursue that happiness.
    If everybody does that, then we will be governed by like minded people
    You're incredibly naive if you truly believe that. Our society's problems are far, far more complex than that, unfortunately.


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    #213
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Morkarleth wrote: »
    More insults couched in waffle.



    Why berate them for making personal choices that have no bearing on you?

    There is a difference between personal and selfish.
    Morkarleth wrote: »
    By bellyaching on an internet forum? I'm sure you're making great progress. Care to expand on exactly how you're making it a "better place to live in", beyond your current endeavours?

    Laughable and fairly typical response.
    I contribute to my community in many many ways and use my experience to facilitate others to contribute.
    Morkarleth wrote: »
    Good for you but a lot of people aren't and their only option is to leave.

    It's not their only option. Judging by the amount who returned from the last exodus; far off hills are not greener.
    Morkarleth wrote: »
    It's amazing how you've taken such a massively complex problem and boiled it down to this hilariously simplistic reason.

    It's not that complex really. What we need is change, change will be made by the majority, if they are here.
    All through the Celtic Tiger how many people in this country bothered their arses to vote would you say? And what would infer from that?

    Morkarleth wrote: »
    You're incredibly naive if you truly believe that. Our society's problems are far, far more complex than that, unfortunately.

    See above^


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    #214
    Yag reuoY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭Yag reuoY


    The Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein brigade can begrudge my decision to emigrate all they like. :)

    In fact, it makes it all the more enjoyable thinking of these bitter and twisted fools wallowing in their own self pity -- and negative equity.

    How do you like those potatoes?

    Hurrah! :pac:


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    #215
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    There is a difference between personal and selfish.

    A thin line. A very thin line.
    Laughable and fairly typical response.
    More deflection.
    I contribute to my community in many many ways and use my experience to facilitate others to contribute.
    How? Specifics, please.
    It's not their only option. Judging by the amount who returned from the last exodus; far off hills are not greener.
    They are at least green, while ours, at the moment, are not.
    It's not that complex really. What we need is change, change will be made by the majority, if they are here.
    Changing an entire society? Oh no, that's not complex at all because unless you change attitudes nothing will ever change.
    All through the Celtic Tiger how many people in this country bothered their arses to vote would you say? And what would infer from that?
    That people are either apathetic about politics or feel that voting won't accomplish anything meaningful; that as long as certain interests and demographics are pandered to they will be ignored.


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    #216
    Nolanger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,556 ✭✭✭Nolanger


    If they're emigrating to find work then fair enough but leaving 'for a better life' is insulting to the people who stay.


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    #217
    Tchaikovsky
    Registered Users Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭Tchaikovsky


    Nolanger wrote: »
    If they're emigrating to find work then fair enough but leaving 'for a better life' is insulting to the people who stay.
    No, it's their life and they're free to do whatever they want. Many people are happy to stay of course, and that's great too.


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    #218
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Its none of your business should someone choose to go abroad for work because our of spineless governments inability to create jobs. Im not saying people emigrating are heroes. They're doing what they have to do for a decent life or the lives of their children. Thats the most natural thing in the world.

    At least they're not sitting on their holes collecting dole & waiting for something to happen. Thats hardly being pro-active is it? Neither is the guy whos had a nice safe job for years cribbing about the recession.

    What annoys me is people who are safe in a well paid job whinging about people leaving the country. If your working & earning a decent wage isn't it easy for you to look down on these people with your condescending snide metaphors & well scripted & overused physcobabble.

    Are you that deeply unhappy that even though your doing ok yourself all you can do is launch criticism at less fortunate people?

    Thats just pathetic to be honest & reinforces the well founded stereotypical Irish begrudger image. If you stay here on the dole, your a scrounger. If you head abroad for work, your a deserter. What the hell do you want people to do?


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    #219
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Yag reuoY wrote: »
    The Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein brigade can begrudge my decision to emigrate all they like.
    Fianna Fáil are the ones pushing you out the door. Can't have your vote going to someone else now can they?


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    #220
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Yag reuoY wrote: »
    The Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein brigade can begrudge my decision to emigrate all they like. :)

    In fact, it makes it all the more enjoyable thinking of these bitter and twisted fools wallowing in their own self pity -- and negative equity.

    Don't get me started on that percentage we should invite to leave! Where should we send your ticket? :rolleyes:


    Yag reuoY wrote: »
    How do you like those potatoes?

    Skin and all!

    An Irish guy/gal stereotypes his/her own....stand back the Internet might be about to explode!


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    #221
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Tchaikovsky wrote: »
    No, it's their life and they're free to do whatever they want.

    So why the whinging? Why the 'I'm entitled to....' nonsense? If people are automonous and islands wtf is the problem then?
    Just keep moving on when the going gets tough? Connect with nowhere, pursue only that which will make YOU wealthier? Is that a life of worth though? Certainly not the values I was given or will pass on to my children.


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    #222
    roryc
    Registered Users Posts: 9,600 ✭✭✭roryc


    Haven't read the thread but heres my 2c...

    Left Ireland early last year for a much awaited year long break in Australia... returned home in March and was amazed by how bad its gotten. General atmosphere of wanting to blame everyone else for the state of the country, rather than get up and do something about it.

    Hung around for the summer, realised I don't want to be in Ireland the way it is now so left. Working a dream job in Gibraltar now and living in Spain, couldn't be happier. Despite being young and having to up and leave by myself, I would recommend it to anyone. The country is going to get worse before it gets better, don't be afraid to broaden your horizons and look abroad for work.

    Too many people are happy enough sitting on the dole and getting their €200 a week (faaaar too much imo). Do you really want to look back on these times and have nothing to show for it?


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    #223
    Yag reuoY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭Yag reuoY


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    Fianna Fáil are the ones pushing you out the door. Can't have your vote going to someone else now can they?

    Not just FFail, the whole structure of Ireland to be honest.

    FF is really just a symptom of what is a very rotten society.


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    #224
    Yag reuoY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭Yag reuoY


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    So why the whinging? Why the 'I'm entitled to....' nonsense? If people are automonous and islands wtf is the problem then?
    Just keep moving on when the going gets tough? Connect with nowhere, pursue only that which will make YOU wealthier? Is that a life of worth though? Certainly not the values I was given or will pass on to my children.


    You're the type who probably believes in Catholic "values". :rolleyes:


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    #225
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Yag reuoY wrote: »
    FF is really just a symptom of what is a very rotten society.
    Its a very rotten system that encourages people to vote for the politician who has been fixing fences in the locality for the last decade, rather than the party with which he is affiliated, which comes a poor second runner in most voting decisions. There are many alternatives, and we should pick one. The society itself is far from perfect, but what society can claim otherwise? I'm proud to be Irish, and as a thoughtful citizen of the Republic I recognise where blame is due, and assign it accordingly.

    Several national level decisions have been made over the last three years to encourage young people to get out. This is mostly because young people are the ones most likely to vote in newcomers who will rock the party boat.

    If you are driven out, you lose the right to vote.


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    #226
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Yag reuoY wrote: »
    You're the type who probably believes in Catholic "values". :rolleyes:


    'Passion and shame torment him, and rage is mingled with his grief.'
    Virgil


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    #227
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Amhran Nua wrote: »

    This is mostly because young people are the ones most likely to vote in newcomers who will rock the party boat.

    If you are driven out, you lose the right to vote.

    Spot on.


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    #228
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Spot on.
    Indeed, its not bitter begrudgery from the FF tent that will accompany the departure announcements for the young people of Ireland from Dublin airport, but the clink of champagne glasses.


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    #229
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    'Passion and shame torment him, and rage is mingled with his grief.'
    Virgil

    How profound. (pssst....this AH, thats not going to impress anyone)

    Tell me. What would you suggest people do as an alternative to emigration?

    No metaphors or copy & paste philosophical quotes.


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    #230
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    Tell me. What would you suggest people do as an alternative to emigration?
    I don't see how anyone could blame young people for leaving. Fresh out of college, no prospects but to compete with half of eastern Europe for minimum wage jobs, and a government that wants you gone, you'd want to be mad not to at least consider it. They certainly aren't rats or cowards.

    I mean, weigh that against the ephemeral notion of the future of Ireland, itself a country still struggling to find an image of itself, roots in turmoil and stretching towards who knows what. There are people who will tell you that Irish is barely more than the guttural barks and yelps of animals, Irish music was borrowed from elsewhere, and Irish traditions were made up in the 80s.

    It doesn't seem like much.

    But I believe it can and will be a lot more than it is, not the comely maidens of DeValera who sowed the seeds for our present misfortune all those years ago, not the banker's playground the current government are trying to make it, not the drunken fool of Europe, Guinnessland or the terrible beauty of Yeats. I'm not entirely clear myself how things will turn out, but I'm willing to stand and fight for a better future than those who dream themselves our masters are willing to let fall from the table, and by god I've put my money where my mouth is.

    Still, I wouldn't point the finger at anyone and say shame for leaving. On one side a struggling shadow of a nation, on the other a future. Its a hard choice to make.


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    #231
    SeaFields
    Registered Users Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭SeaFields


    Hey Amhran Nua, have ye any policies to keep young people and graduates in the country? I couldn't see any in the recovery policies part of your webpage.


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    #232
    Nolanger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,556 ✭✭✭Nolanger


    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    Tell me. What would you suggest people do as an alternative to emigration?
    Start a rock band.


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    #233
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    How profound. (pssst....this AH, thats not going to impress anyone)

    Never mind whether I'm trying to impress or if it's in AH or not, did you understand it? And how pointless and useless the rage of the poster it was directed at, is?


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    #234
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Never mind whether I'm trying to impress or if it's in AH or not, did you understand it? And how pointless and useless the rage of the poster it was directed at, is?

    You copy & pasted a quote, we rightly tremble in your intellectual magnificence oh learned one.:rolleyes:

    Care to answer the question?


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    #235
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    SeaFields wrote: »
    Hey Amhran Nua, have ye any policies to keep young people and graduates in the country? I couldn't see any in the recovery policies part of your webpage.
    Click on the banner on the top, it will take you to a petition to allow emigrants to vote as even countries like Mexico have managed. Sign that, you don't need to join anything, and it will help get the ball rolling, hopefully removing the bizarre incentive the government has to run young people out of it. We have also got a lot of ideas to promote entrepreneurship and local export based businesses, if the jobs are there what reason to leave? I can give you a run down of a few if you'd like.


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    #236
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Never mind whether I'm trying to impress or if it's in AH or not, did you understand it? And how pointless and useless the rage of the poster it was directed at, is?

    Care to answer this:
    I contribute to my community in many many ways and use my experience to facilitate others to contribute.
    How? Specifics, please.

    You're big on rhetoric but not on specific ideas.


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    #237
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    You copy & pasted a quote, we rightly tremble in your intellectual magnificence oh learned one.:rolleyes:

    and? did you understand it?
    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    Care to answer the question?

    That's like the how long is a piece of string, there are many different things people could do.
    But the primary thing is to get totally involved in your communities, I would rather see people on dole but involved and activating for change than emigrating with a misdirected and impotent rage.
    People say that the problems here are insurmountable, but they also said that there would never be peace in the North, that a woman would never be president of the country, or that the stranglehold of the church could not be broken....but they were, by the sheer force of the peoples will. This is a great country when it puts it's mind to it.


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    #238
    ILA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ILA


    I'm staying until I complete my education, and then will consider emigrating. I'd have no qualms only for the strict criteria for entering the United States, and the seven years it takes to become an American citizen, which would open access to US Public Sector employment.

    There isn't a whole lot of options out there for ordinary people. The jobs market is competitive here, even for graduates, so I can only see that getting worse. I hate competition, however in a job I'd work night and day using whatever abilities available for the success of business as long as there's fair conditions and basic needs (Maslow's Hierarchy) were met.


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    #239
    SeaFields
    Registered Users Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭SeaFields


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    We have also got a lot of ideas to promote entrepreneurship and local export based businesses, if the jobs are there what reason to leave? I can give you a run down of a few if you'd like.

    Yes, I wouldn't mind seeing those.

    I signed that petition this morning but my name isn't on it yet. Do I need to do it again?


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    #240
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Morkarleth wrote: »
    Care to answer this:



    You're big on rhetoric but not on specific ideas.

    My specific situation is different to everyone elses, I have no intention of giving anymore detail.
    Like, taking responsibility is going to involve a little bit of thought from everybody......yeh?


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    #241
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    That's like the how long is a piece of string, there are many different things people could do.

    Except I didn't ask what people can do, I asked what you do. So, care to answer that?


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