Pope UK visit mega discussion thread.

starbelgrade

Pocketfizz wrote: »

nothing like a bit of Tim Minchin.

There are several million things I can think of that are better than Tim Minchin.

indough

bet none of the militant atheists in here talk about god or the pope like this in front of their mammies

Memnoch

Would the REAL representative of God,
Please stand up,
and put one of those Nazi Salute Hands up,
And be proud to be out of your mind,
Yet still in control, of a billion people,
One more time, loud as you can, how does it go?

Yes I'm the representative, the only representative,
All you other representatives are just imitating,
Won't the real representative,
Please stand up.

Memnoch

Memnoch wrote: »

Would the REAL representative of God,
Please stand up,
and put one of those Nazi Salute Hands up,
And be proud to be out of your mind,
Yet still in control, of a billion people,
One more time, loud as you can, how does it go?

Yes I'm the representative, the only representative,
All you other representatives are just imitating,
Won't the real representative,
Please stand up.

Dude, that so doesn't even rhyme.

Memnoch

Deleted User wrote: »

Dude, that so doesn't even rhyme.

It totally does if you say it right.

efb

indough wrote: »

bet none of the militant atheists in here talk about god or the pope like this in front of their mammies

I'm not a militant atheist, I'm a Christian, but I ripped on Joe R infront of my mam, she said "you cant say that", I replied "why?" She mumbled something about being disrespectful.

dvpower

indough wrote: »

bet none of the militant atheists in here talk about god or the pope like this in front of their mammies

There are 'militant' atheists on this thread?
I always thought that that term was usually reserved for the likes of Stalin, but it seems that ordinary folks can be militant too - you've really lowered the bar.

Can we now start referring to the pope as a 'crazed' Christian?

Guill

Pope is only protecting his income by throwing his weight around, he seemingly has a direct line to God which is supposed to make us all Quake in our boots. I believe in a God, i dont believe in the pope, screw him, he is sitting on his mound of money looking down on everyone else.

ravendude

ravendude wrote: »

Even Dawkins, one of the most fervent atheists doesn't 100% rule out a god, I think his chapter on the subject is called "Why there almost certainly is no god".
We technically can't say for sure.
The important point is that for practical purposes atheism rejects the notion of a god interfering in your life, demanding worship, dictating morality etc.

I'm not comfortable with that either for the simple reason that I view it as declaring something or other.
We can't declare something we don't know.
We are better off in my opinion just leaving it at respect.
Most atheists I know have no respect for the concept of a God,such that the position of atheism for me is synonymous with their being no God or whatever entity may have started this off.

Anyway, I have no problem with a general sense of spirituality, it's organised doctrine and the nonsense of conventional religious belief, denial of evolution, persecution of homosexuality, gender discrimination etc. that bothers me.

I've no problem with other peoples beliefs and respect them actually including peoples beliefs in God.
I find it funny that Paisley and the Pope have so much in common.I've yet to meet a practicing catholic actually that mostly doesn't agree with your stance and mine on those issues.
The pope is Rigid on church teachings dating back through the ages and thats just plain silly in my view.
They'd be far better off with women priests,married priests,openly practicing gay priests etc etc as after all in their view God made them all.
It was men that wrote those rules not a God and men make mistakes.

Same advice to militant Islam or Islam in general actually.They take their practices even more literally stoning adulterer's and hanging homosexuals etc and in the case of the Taliban...just plain evil personified if you ask me.

Anyhow I've said my piece.

dvpower

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not comfortable with that either for the simple reason that I view it as declaring something or other.
We can't declare something we don't know.
We are better off in my opinion just leaving it at respect.
Most atheists I know have no respect for the concept of a God,such that the position of atheism for me is synonymous with their being no God or whatever entity may have started this off.

Isn't that exactly what religions do?
Except they go a lot further. Not only do they insist that God exists, but they also claim to know what God wants, often to incredible detail.

philstar

how many times has there been a papal visit to the irish republic??

just once 1979??

if so, thats very poor payback from the RC church to a country that has remained so loyal to Catholicism don't you think.....:cool:

faceman

Looks like he finally mentions the atrocities in a bit more of a sincere fashion.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0918/pope.html

strobe

indough wrote: »

bet none of the militant atheists in here talk about god or the pope like this in front of their mammies

Well seeing as my Mammy said "lets hope the plane crashes" when she heard about the visit to Britain I don't really think she would mind what I said about the pope to be honest.

PeterIanStaker

faceman wrote: »

Looks like he finally mentions the atrocities in a bit more of a sincere fashion.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0918/pope.html

Sincere?

They're only sorry they got caught.

It's nothing but posturing and PR on his part. The abuse reports came to Ratzinger's desk when he was a cardinal and he ignored them or took no action.

seven-iron

What a disgrace of a thread. I cant believe the amount of pope/religion bashers on here, and your all probably too cowardly to say these things anywhere else but this blog.

Just because you don't agree with religion doesn't make it wrong or eternally bad. A lot of people get comfort from it. Of course you cant prove aspects of it but thats why its faith, it something you believe in. That there exists a better place. That spirituality can and does help people through difficult periods in their lives.

I'm not saying i'm religious but you have to respect other peoples personal beliefs.

MagicMarker

seven-iron wrote: »

I'm not saying i'm religious but you have to respect other peoples personal beliefs.

No, I don't.

Donkey Oaty

seven-iron wrote: »

Just because you don't agree with religion doesn't make it wrong or eternally bad.

The problem is that whatever good has been done by the Catholic Church, there are aspects of its teachings and actions that are unquestionably evil, and the current leadership has failed to face up to that.

brummytom

There is a big difference between questioning/attacking the church for it's mistakes; and insulting the ordinary members of that church for their beliefs or the mistakes of the church.


While I could understand the former, and sort of agree with it; there is no need for the latter.


The same people who bang on about how the church are sexist/homophobic don't seem to see any problem with their bigotry against those of faith.

seven-iron

Quote:
Originally Posted by seven-iron View Post
I'm not saying i'm religious but you have to respect other peoples personal beliefs.

No, I don't.

It's responses like that which is making this once informative, useful and engaging forum lose its creditability and reputation for being a website of substance.

Donkey Oaty

seven-iron wrote: »

this once informative, useful and engaging forum

After Hours? That must have been before my time.

efb

seven-iron wrote: »

What a disgrace of a thread. I cant believe the amount of pope/religion bashers on here, and your all probably too cowardly to say these things anywhere else but this blog.

Just because you don't agree with religion doesn't make it wrong or eternally bad. A lot of people get comfort from it. Of course you cant prove aspects of it but thats why its faith, it something you believe in. That there exists a better place. That spirituality can and does help people through difficult periods in their lives.

I'm not saying i'm religious but you have to respect other peoples personal beliefs.

Poor people in Germany found hope in the national patry in the 1930s

Doesn't make it ok

dvpower

dvpower wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what religions do?
Except they go a lot further. Not only do they insist that God exists, but they also claim to know what God wants, often to incredible detail.

Religions are based on beliefs so they believe that God exist,his wants desires etc.
Thats their belief.
When I said "We can't declare what we don't know" (refering to Dawkins position) I meant exactly that and yet the stock response seems to be...but but but religion does this.. Who cares,I don't.
I see an atheist telling me that God doesn't exist to be guilty of the exact same thing.
Pot and kettle on that aspect of it.

I actually find it amusing , atheism having it's own evangelists so to speak agitating that position,amusing and rather ironic.

Donkey Oaty

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually find it amusing , atheism having it's own evangelists so to speak agitating that position,amusing and rather ironic.

Are you an evangelical agnostic?

faceman

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Sincere?

They're only sorry they got caught.

It's nothing but posturing and PR on his part. The abuse reports came to Ratzinger's desk when he was a cardinal and he ignored them or took no action.

Lets be honest here. Nothing he can do can make up for what happened. No apology, no gesture, no act of good will. Sincere or not, he took a small step forward today.

Nodin

seven-iron wrote: »

What a disgrace of a thread. I cant believe the amount of pope/religion bashers on here, and your all probably too cowardly to say these things anywhere else but this blog.

Wrong and 'not a blog'.

Donkey Oaty

faceman wrote: »

Lets be honest here. Nothing he can do can make up for what happened. No apology, no gesture, no act of good will. Sincere or not, he took a small step forward today.

Agreed, but there's a long way to go. Here are the comments of a survivor of abuse, Margaret McGuckin, reported on the BBC news website:

She welcomed the Pope's comments but said they didn't go far enough.
"I feel hopeful, I feel he knows he's hearing the outcry of the people here," she said.
"He should have said about admitting the cover-up that they were responsible for and that it did go right up to the hierarchy.
"He should have come out and that would have made a perfect day for everyone, for all the victims.

The article goes on:

Later it was confirmed that the Pope had held a private 30-minute meeting in the Westminster area with five abuse survivors, three of whom were from Yorkshire, one from London and another from Scotland.
One of the victims is understood to have suffered the abuse in an Irish institution.
The Vatican said the Pope had expressed his "deep sorrow and shame" to all five.

That's more like it.

dvpower

Deleted User wrote: »

RelI actually find it amusing , atheism having it's own evangelists so to speak agitating that position,amusing and rather ironic.

I don't see anything at all ironic (or amusing) about atheists putting forward their own position. why wouldn't they, especially in a country where we still have laws and systems that discriminate against people based on their religion (or lack thereof)?

seven-iron wrote: »

I'm not saying i'm religious but you have to respect other peoples personal beliefs.

Why do you have to respect other peoples personal beliefs? I hear this quiite a lot but I just don't get it.
Do I have to respect* belief in homeopathy, scientology, alien abductions or psychic healing? I think all of these things are nonsence so why should I respect them?
I can still respect people who believe these things, but I can respect them despite their beliefs, not because of them.

*Mind you, I also don't quite get why people require or want respect all the time. Is this a new phenomenon?

faceman

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Agreed, but there's a long way to go.

Unfortunately you are right.

hotmail.com

The costumes they're wearing are hilarious.

suitseir

It has to be said an amazing turn out for him in both Scotland and the UK...so what does that say ( and not even a CATHOLIC COUNTRY??)

I think if he came to Ireland there would be a huge turnout as well (imo).