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Pope UK visit mega discussion thread.

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    #452
    ravendude
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭ravendude


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I've yet to meet the person/thing or whatever started all this off though or the man that can make a planet.
    Show me him her or it,what was there at the very beginning of everything...the very start now and not some science about the ongoing.

    Untill then I'll not be an atheist thanks.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    and not some science about the ongoing.
    I'll presume you have no real interest in knowing why or what is is then, and are happy with the cop out that is religion.

    Anyway, even just to humour you for a minute. Let's assume for a minute there was "something", some force, or nebulous intelligence that started it all off.
    What makes you think it wants you to worship it and go to mass? or cares about you at all, or is interested in your sins, or whether you eat fish on fridays, or use condoms?
    ...or that primitive men 2000 years ago (who incidentally thought the world was flat and generally misunderstood almost everything...) accurately described it in the bible?


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    #453
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    You see you're responding to something other than what I said.

    But to answer your question on a totally unrelated point,I don't know what started all this just as no one else does even if they think they do.
    I do however have respect for that unknown.
    Theres a difference between respect and devotion.


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    #454
    ravendude
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭ravendude


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You see you're responding to something other than what I said.

    But to answer your question on a totally unrelated point,I don't know what started all this just as no one else does even if they think they do.
    I do however have respect for that unknown.
    Theres a difference between respect and devotion.

    I think the question was very much related, but anyway, that's an inconsequential argument not really worth having...

    Like you, I too have respect for that unknown, and this is very compatible with atheism (something I recently realised that I actually am, not having thought about too much until relatively recently).
    I am comfortable in the knowledge that I don't know, and I will not insert religion by default into that gap of knowledge.
    There's a huge difference between respect for that unknown "what" and devotion to it, and its probably representative of the difference between atheism and theism.


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    #455
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Well no I wouldn't agree with the 2nd part because it in my view assumes there is no God and therefore that there is no one that can ultimately sanction me if I do something it disagree strongly enough with.

    Therefore I cannot be an atheist or an agnostic because I simply have no evidence as to how this all started.
    Ergo my preferred position is not to go out of my way to píss off our overlord if they exist.


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    #456
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well no I wouldn't agree with the 2nd part because it in my view assumes there is no God and therefore that there is no one that can ultimately sanction me if I do something it disagree strongly enough with.

    Therefore I cannot be an atheist or an agnostic because I simply have no evidence as to how this all started.
    Ergo my preferred position is not to go out of my way to píss off our overlord if they exist.
    But you also have no evidence that your God did it, maybe it was one of the others?


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    #457
    ravendude
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭ravendude


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well no I wouldn't agree with the 2nd part because it in my view assumes there is no God and therefore that there is no one that can ultimately sanction me if I do something it disagree strongly enough with...
    Therefore I cannot be an atheist or an agnostic because I simply have no evidence as to how this all started.
    ...and no reason to insert a godlike entity into that gap.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ergo my preferred position is not to go out of my way to píss off our overlord if they exist.
    How do you know what does/doesn't piss off that overlord?


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    #458
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    But you also have no evidence that your God did it, maybe it was one of the others?
    Why are you saying "your God" to me when I don't know if there is one ?
    Logic tells me to start from a position of respect for the unknown as otherwise it could come back to bite me.
    I don't want that..and anyway I don't like offending anyone.It makes no difference to my life if having that position at the point of my death results in lights out no more about it after that.
    It might though if after death I discover there is no death.
    I don't know so my position is harmless to me in my view whatever way things turn out.


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    #459
    mcwhirter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭mcwhirter


    There is no God, church is for brain washed fools


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    #460
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    It has taken me so long to get back in to this thread. I've been reading loads all evening. I found this article on the subject quite interesting.










    :pac:


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    #461
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Logic tells me to start from a position of respect for the unknown as otherwise it could come back to bite me.
    Logic tells you all that?
    It sounds like you think you know a thing or two about the "unknown".


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    #462
    ravendude
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭ravendude


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why are you saying "your God" to me when I don't know if there is one ?
    Logic tells me to start from a position of respect for the unknown as otherwise it could come back to bite me.
    I don't want that..and anyway I don't like offending anyone.It makes no difference to my life if having that position at the point of my death results in lights out no more about it after that.
    It might though if after death I discover there is no death.
    I don't know so my position is harmless to me in my view whatever way things turn out.

    Sounds atheist to me then....
    Respect for the unknown in such general terms is very much compatible with atheism. The inconsistency here is that that respect somehow dictates how you live your life, ie. not wanting to piss whatever it is (if its there) off, and something coming back to bite you.
    If that "respect" is just living your life the best you can based on your best judgement, - I'd say you're an atheist, - otherwise the question is, what guides you on how you should live your life?.


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    #463
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ravendude wrote: »
    ...and no reason to insert a godlike entity into that gap.
    Have I? I haven't.
    I've said I don't know and neither do you unless you've come back from the dead or something?
    How do you know what does/doesn't piss off that overlord?
    I didn't say I did or even say there is one but I'm not prepared obviously to rule out the possibility as there is no way of knowing that I know of.

    What I did say though is I'll respect the unknown whether it exists or not and to elaborate slightly,one way I'll do that is by giving it the respect that it deserves and that is not denying it's existence unless I definitely know it doesn't exist.
    Thats where I'm coming from when I say I'm not going to go out of my way to disrespect something that may exist I don't know.

    That kind of position doesn't require endless philosophical debate because it requires no effort on my part or on the part of anyone that meets me and essentially is of absolutely no harm to anyone that I can think of.

    Do you understand where I'm coming from?

    I'm not here to convert anyone to my way of thinking.Theres nothing to convert anyone to really,just to respect other peoples beliefs which is what I do.
    That doesn't preclude me from disagree'ing with them of course where I see harm.
    I'm kind of very happy in where I am actually :)


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    #464
    ravendude
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭ravendude


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Have I? I haven't.
    I've said I don't know and neither do you unless you've come back from the dead or something?

    I didn't say I did or even say there is one but I'm not prepared obviously to rule out the possibility as there is no way of knowing that I know of.

    What I did say though is I'll respect the unknown whether it exists or not and to elaborate slightly,one way I'll do that is by giving it the respect that it deserves and that is not denying it's existence unless I definitely know it doesn't exist.
    Thats where I'm coming from when I say I'm not going to go out of my way to disrespect something that may exist I don't know.

    That kind of position doesn't require endless philosophical debate because it requires no effort on my part or on the part of anyone that meets me and essentially is of absolutely no harm to anyone that I can think of.

    Do you understand where I'm coming from?

    I'm not here to convert anyone to my way of thinking.Theres nothing to convert anyone to really,just to respect other peoples beliefs which is what I do.
    That doesn't preclude me from disagree'ing with them of course where I see harm.
    I'm kind of very happy in where I am actually :)

    That's atheism, atheism doesn't completely and utterly rule out a deity, it's a lack of theism, that's to say a belief in a prescribed doctrine and specific deities.
    Agnosticism by the way is also compatible with atheism.


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    #465
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dvpower wrote: »
    Logic tells you all that?
    It sounds like you think you know a thing or two about the "unknown".
    The only thing I know about it is what I said at the start and to put it another way,I revel in the marvel of all around me,the stars in the sky,the water flowing in the river,the bee's buzzing in the flowers and I say to myself,by Golly if something created all this,then high fives!

    I've no knowledge if that something or someone exists or if they don't but untill I do,I hope I go to my deathbed applying the respect to that entity that it would in my view surely deserve.
    I don't have to do anything untoward or out of the way in my daily life to apply that tautology I think.


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    #466
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ravendude wrote: »
    That's atheism, atheism doesn't completely and utterly rule out a deity, it's a lack of theism, that's to say a belief in a prescribed doctrine.
    Agnosticism by the way is also compatible with atheism.
    To be honest any atheist I've ever met does rule out a god.
    I'm not comfortable with that set up for the reasons stated.


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    #467
    mcwhirter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭mcwhirter


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The only thing I know about it is what I said at the start and to put it another way,I revel in the marvel of all around me,the stars in the sky,the water flowing in the river,the bee's buzzing in the flowers and I say to myself,by Golly if something created all this,then high fives!


    What you been smoking?


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    #468
    ravendude
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭ravendude


    Deleted User wrote: »
    To be honest any atheist I've ever met does rule out a god.
    I'm not comfortable with that set up for the reasons stated.

    Even Dawkins, one of the most fervent atheists doesn't 100% rule out a god, I think his chapter on the subject is called "Why there almost certainly is no god".
    We technically can't say for sure.
    The important point is that for practical purposes atheism rejects the notion of a god interfering in your life, demanding worship, dictating morality etc.

    Anyway, I have no problem with a general sense of spirituality, it's organised doctrine and the nonsense of conventional religious belief, denial of evolution, persecution of homosexuality, gender discimination etc. that bothers me.


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    #469
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Guys seriously. If you want to get side tracked on a debate about the nature of God and the origins of the universe and how atheists are horrible and christians are horrible start a thread on it. This thread's about the Pope visiting the UK.


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    #470
    DOC09UNAM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭DOC09UNAM


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    Guys seriously. If you want to get side tracked on a debate about the nature of God and the origins of the universe and how atheists are horrible and christians are horrible start a thread on it. This thread's about the Pope visiting the UK.
    The thread is about the Pope comparing Atheists to Nazis no?


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    #471
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    DOC09UNAM wrote: »
    The thread is about the Pope comparing Atheists to Nazis no?

    Sort of. Then it turned into "ze pope is a nazi".


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    #472
    DOC09UNAM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭DOC09UNAM


    Nodin wrote: »
    Sort of. Then it turned into "ze pope is a nazi".
    Well that was mentioned in the first few pages :pac:

    odd thread for after hours, surprised it's still going tbh.


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    #473
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    I can't believe he has been allowed into the country, and to spout such horse **** like he has about Christmas and Atheists and how they want to ban Christmas. That is the first i have heard of it.

    It seems he is on a mission to not spread love but to spread a message in his short stay to get more people on his side. Forget 'state' visit, more like Anti Atheist/Agnostic visit. How he gets away with it i don't know.

    And then you have horrible people like Tony Blair and Baroness Warsi sucking his ass. ****ing idiots the lot of them. He could not be more insulting to people in the last few days if he tried.


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    #474
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    What do you want? For him to spread a message of peace and love?
    Oh right.


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    #475
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    dvpower wrote: »
    What do you want? For him to spread a message of peace and love?
    Oh right.
    For him to **** off back to where he came from.


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    #476
    DOC09UNAM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭DOC09UNAM


    Auschwitz?


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    #477
    Superbus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭Superbus


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    For him to **** off back to where he came from.

    I don't think Germany want.


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    #478
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    He protected paedophile priests. I can't believe he is even the pope..


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    #479
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Holy See, monkey do?


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    #480
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    Guys seriously. If you want to get side tracked on a debate about the nature of God and the origins of the universe and how atheists are horrible and christians are horrible start a thread on it. This thread's about the Pope visiting the UK.


    Eh, I DID.

    Then the Mods merged my thread about the Pope comparing aethiests to Nazis with this one, even though the comment had nothing to do with his visit to the UK, apart from the fact that the comment was made while he was in the UK.

    It's nigh on impossible to stay on topic in a thread, when two threads about two completely different topics are merged for no good reason, other than they both had the word "Pope" in the title.


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    #481
    Asphyxia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Asphyxia


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    He protected paedophile priests. I can't believe he is even the pope..

    Yeah it's ridiculous :mad: Why would anyone want to go see him? F**ked if I know!

    This makes me feel better, nothing like a bit of Tim Minchin. :D

    THE POPE SONG
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRDfut2Vx0&p=D527CF40E183356F&playnext=1&index=30&has_verified=1


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