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Dole claimants may have to work in community

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    #392
    monkeypants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    I have heard from a very reliable source, that this scheme - as it was announced in the media - is not actually going ahead in the form that it was first touted.
    No surprise there. Eventually someone sat down and had a think about it and realised that once you factor in the cost of insurance, training and health and safety, it'll cost more than it'll supposedly save.


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    #393
    fizzynicenice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 466 ✭✭fizzynicenice


    PAULWATSON wrote: »
    I know a man who has worked for 30 years, now he is on the dole.

    You little bigots would now suggest that he should be degraded to picking up litter in town centers with a high vis vest on his back.

    CLOWNS, the lot of you.

    Could be worse, my Da worked as a maintanence electrician for 25 years, got let go in 03'. Started his own buisness, struggled to keep working and put me through half an apprenticeship with him.

    Now he's run out of work and money, I'm on the dole, and he cant even get jobseekers allowance as he was self employed.

    My aul fella is a proud man, but he wud be very happy to pick up shite for a few hours to get 200 bills a week.


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    #394
    guineapig1975
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭guineapig1975


    fizzynicenice wrote: »

    My aul fella is a proud man, but he wud be very happy to pick up shite for a few hours to get 200 bills a week.

    While I appreciate the sentiment of what you're saying, the way that this scheme has been introduced (I won't say implemented because it hasn't been yet), is very wishy-washy. There have been no details announced because the Department of Social Protection (not Social Welfare any more then?) haven't come up with any details.

    They've put about rumour and speculation regarding the scheme which in my opinion, degrades the people already employed (in the proper way i.e. being paid a full-time wage) in the types of jobs they're proposing for the scheme.

    So caring for elderly people is easy for any old joe soap without training to do is it? After school care for kids a piece of cake?

    If anyone has any questions or comments about the scheme (pro or con) then they should email Eamon O'Cuiv here: info@eamonocuiv.ie

    Demand information. If the "Work for Dole" scheme is not going ahead, ask why. Get him to tell you why it was ever announced in the first place. Ask questions. Seek information. And don't be put off by snotty replies. They're snotty to discourage you. Don't give in to their requests that you give them your home address so they can reply to you by letter as they don't reply by email. (They emailed me to tell me that they wouldn't be able to email me :rolleyes:)

    Keep demanding information. Don't let them put you off.


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    #395
    fizzynicenice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 466 ✭✭fizzynicenice


    guineapig1975 wrote: »
    While I appreciate the sentiment of what you're saying, the way that this scheme has been introduced (I won't say implemented because it hasn't been yet), is very wishy-washy. There have been no details announced because the Department of Social Protection (not Social Welfare any more then?) haven't come up with any details.

    I do agree with you on this, as anyone who's had to apply for the dole will know they are a nightmare to deal with, cant get a straight answer out of them
    guineapig1975 wrote: »
    So caring for elderly people is easy for any old joe soap without training to do is it? After school care for kids a piece of cake?

    Again I agree here. Any sort of care work requires lots of training, Sure you couldn't let just anybody look after kids. Jaysus, I'd probably end up getting them locked or something.

    I simply meant that working for your dole would be more attractive to someone who was uneligable in the first place. Thats all.


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    #396
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    monkeypants wrote: »
    No surprise there. Eventually someone sat down and had a think about it and realised that once you factor in the cost of insurance, training and health and safety, it'll cost more than it'll supposedly save.

    I don't think the revised scheme is going to save much money either.- quite the opposite.. my "inside source" told me that for every 20 people that will be "employed" under the scheme, they will have to hire 1 supervisor.

    That means that if there are 10,000 places on the scheme - as previously touted - there will be 500 people employed as supervisors. You could call that "job creation" I suppose, but only in the vaguest sense of the word.

    If anyone has any supervisory experience & is out of work - keep a look out in the local papers when the scheme is announced as the jobs will be advertised then & will be appointed through the Leader programmes.

    To me it just looks like another way of the Government shifting figures off the live register without actually creating any employment in the real sense.


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    #397
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    fizzynicenice wrote: »
    ...
    Now he's run out of work and money, I'm on the dole, and he cant even get jobseekers allowance as he was self employed. ...

    That's not true. If he is genuinely seeking work and is available for work, then he can apply for JA and undergo a means-test.


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    #398
    guineapig1975
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭guineapig1975


    fizzynicenice wrote: »

    I simply meant that working for your dole would be more attractive to someone who was uneligable in the first place. Thats all.

    I actually agree with that. But I would be concerned as to why someone is not eligible. If you've been previously self-employed and the business goes belly-up, you can be means tested for welfare, at least to my knowledge.


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    #399
    sagat2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭sagat2


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    I don't think the revised scheme is going to save much money either.- quite the opposite.. my "inside source" told me that for every 20 people that will be "employed" under the scheme, they will have to hire 1 supervisor.

    Surely they can find 1 in 20 of the people who are currently on the Dole with sufficient education and experience to fill the supervisor role rather than hiring additional people.


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    #400
    Jimmy Bottlehead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,118 ✭✭✭✭Jimmy Bottlehead


    Got an email back from Mr. O'Cuivs office.
    Jimmy Bottlehead wrote:
    Hi there.

    I just wanted to write to tell of my disgust at the scheme being proposed by your good selves - being forced to work if you're on Jobseekers Benefit / Allowance.

    As someone who graduated with a degree, worked right after leaving college for about two years before I lost my job, I had to endure 20 months on the dole, and it was shameful, unpleasant and demeaning. I am fortunate enough to be working again currently, but this scheme will be degrading to those forced into it and I wish to make my feelings known. I know how I would have felt if forced into this.

    A smarter approach would be to police people better with regards job applications, instead of just treating everyone as the same standard - I know I never stopped looking for work, but I also know plenty of people who happily live on social welfare benefits, and who SHOULD have their payments stopped considering they never bother to do anything.

    I look forward to a reply, and hopefully Mr. O'Cuiv's non-election next time he is up for office.

    Yours,

    Jimmy Bottlehead
    Eamon O'Cuiv wrote:
    Dear Jimmy,

    From what I am hearing, the demand for the scheme will exceed many times the provision of places. There will be no need to "force" people onto any scheme.

    Like you, I think it is important however that unemployed people are encouraged and assisted in finding work.

    Mise le meas,
    Éamon Ó Cuív T.D.
    Minister for Social Protection


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