Dole claimants may have to work in community

fonecrusher1

To be honest im for it.

BUT I just hope they target the longterm benefit scroungers people first & foremost. If you are an able-bodied healthy person & haven't worked in 5,6,7,8 years your lazy. No other word for it. Just lazy & deserve to be put to use within the community.

People who have been on the dole for a year & have made the effort to get work should NOT be eligible for selection.

i_love_toast

oooomy wrote: »

Its elitism plain and simple. Make the 'little' people work for there rations.
Is this the sort of society you want to live in?
Granted it has benefits but i don't think we want to create another social class in ireland

mmmmmmmmm yes i would generally prefer to live in that kind of society instead of one where people have a career living on the dole where it isnt reduce every year of the sponger sitting on his/her hole.

another social class??cop on will you...seriously

poppyvalley

some good views on this topic at the minute Damian Oreilly rte1

oooomy

wolfpawnat wrote: »

How does it make another social class, it gets those on Social Welfare to earn money rather than recieve it for nothing!
Also a lot of these "little people" don't know the meaning of a good honest days work!

A lot of hard working people would be glad to pay their taxes and see a cleaner community for their money!

I am in receipt of social welfare and have a small child, I would be glad to show him a work ethic!!!!! I could bring him with me while I do meals on wheels or the like!

Also I think the jobs such as childcare and looking after the elderly you will be under the supervision of qualified people and as people have said there are a few people qualified in this area who could get a long term career out of it if they are lucky!

Job Seekers Benefit was created for those SEEKING work, the clue is in the name. If you don't have work you are free to help. If you have a job interview I am sure the gov will be glad to let you go to it. <20 hours a week is nothing. Thats only 4 hours a day for 5 days.

All I want to know is can I stck any experience I get onto a CV??? Will look great in an interview when there are jobs to get, shows you are a willing and able worker!!!

become a volunteer then. Are you suggesting we return to this as a model?
http://www.triskelle.eu/history/reliefworks.php?index=060.090.020

Wile E. Coyote

I really don't see why most people have an issue with this. It won't be forced on the recently unemployed or the newly graduated. It will/should be aimed at the long term unemployed.

And whats wrong with helping out in your local community to earn your social welfare anyway? It's the whole 'I'm to good to do...' attitude that sickens me reading this thread. Are some of you really too good to help out with the tidy towns or put in a few hours with your local sports club or animal shelter?

Collie D wrote: »

What experience would an out of work accountant or a recently graduated law student get from sweeping streets?

What experience will either of them get from sitting at home on their ass all day? I know if I was unlucky enough to be out of work I'd be glad of a few hours out of the house. Anything to keep myself busy.

And to all those saying 'I paid my PRSI I should get it all back...' Your PRSI payment also goes towards sick pay, maternity benefit and state pension among other things. If they give you all your PRSI back are you willing to give those up?

clived2

This is all well and good, but how I am supposed to be in 6

places at once,

Amhran Nua

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

I really don't see why most people have an issue with this.

If you had read the thread you might have a better idea. I particulary recommend the succinct summation by starbelgrade a few pages back.

up for anything

ixoy wrote: »

The government, and county councils, are broke. They can't afford to create extra positions so it makes sense to look at a potential pool of labour that they already have.
I'd have thought that getting welfare towards some sort of work would give you a sense of self worth?

That's right, they are broke and don't we know why!

Proper job creation is what'll give the people in this country a sense of optimism and the feeling that the government cares and is doing something constructive to right the economy. Let them borrow the money to fund job schemes. They are borrowing it for everything else. At least with job creation they may actually see something back out of it and be able to start to pay off their loans . Lenihan and Cowen should make an appointment with MABs and start with basics like the rest of us have to. Jobs on credit could be the way of the future.

I read in an article that 40% of the USA were not affected by the Depression and hardly knew it existed whereas the other 60% lived hand-to-mouth. It's a bit like that in Ireland today. There are those people and I know many who have talk hard times and recession but still manage to change their car or have that holiday and there are the others who are living with rolling debt just to stay afloat whether on the dole or working to pay the mortgage and food. Of course, there are those fabled others who are working their balls off and claiming unemployment and I wish I was one of them.

Schemes like the one they are planning now are short-sighted and have many unexpected pit falls as has been proved historically.

Unemployment relief

Saskatoon was representative of many cities that started a "work for wages" program to provide its unemployed residents with work doing small projects around the city. Financing came from municipal, provincial, and federal sources, but the cities managed the project using civil service staff. The work relief schemes at first kept unemployment in the city to a manageable level. However, it was a small-scale remedy for a large-scale need, and was utterly unable to cope with a long-term crisis that kept getting worse. Financing ran out. Until 1932, most saw the downturn as part of a short cycle that would quickly turn around. After three years of rising unemployment and falling taxes and growing pessimism, it became clear that short-term emergency solutions were inadequate. The depression had become a long-term crisis. As the need grew officals dropped expensive works projects in favor of a direct dole of cash payments to families in greatest need, thus stretching the limited funds.[7]


The unemployed, who were previously the responsibility of private assistance networks, reached unprecedented numbers by 1932, thus forcing the government to create legislation in a new area of intervention. The federal and provincial governments designed extensive assistance programs (direct relief and public works) that were nonetheless the responsibility of the municipalities to manage and implement. In general, older workers and those with large families were most likely to receive relief; the short-term unemployed and employable dependents were least likely to receive relief. Relief was based on need rather than labor-force status, so that poor families qualified even though they had in many instances not been in the labor force. Relief programs had little impact on the rate of unemployment.[8]


In Drummondville, Quebec, elected municipal officers sought the collaboration of specific associations to perform this task, in particular the chamber of commerce, the Property Owner's League, and the Canadian Manufacturers' Association.[9] In Regina, volunteer and government bodies combined to constitute a mixed social economy of poor relief that was both dynamic and relatively effective.[10]

In 1932, the national government set up relief camps for the unmarried and homeless unemployed. These work camps, which paid workers twenty cents a day, were operated by the Ministry of Defense. In Quebec, the Valcartier camp served the homeless unemployed of Montreal. Those unemployed from Valcartier helped to renovate and clean parts of Quebec, as well as enlarge and repair the former military airbase. With this program, the government made use of a workforce it perceived as a potential threat to social stability and order. Though they provided the men with lodging and employment, the camps also had a totalitarian aspect, which led to their abolishment in 1936.[

(Great Depression - Canada

ultain

No problem with the idea..as long as people have some choice to what scheme they are allocated to.

30H!3

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

What experience will either of them get from sitting at home on their ass all day? I know if I was unlucky enough to be out of work I'd be glad of a few hours out of the house. Anything to keep myself busy.

You can argue that another way and say - where is the incentive to educate yourself to honours degree/masters level (in IT/law/business/accounting/healthcare or any discipline) if after 4 or 5 years of hard work, study, exams, being constantly broke, etc you are forced into what is essentially a moderate form of slave labour ?

It's lazy, reactionary, backward thinking policy-making. This is from a government which has let costs/rents/markets/expenses/utilities/entire industries/etc spiral out of control leaving literally 100,000's of people unemployed.

God forbid they should formulate a long-term and SUSTAINABLE job creation strategy instead. That would require far too much effort.

Nevyn

Can't see this working given that garda vetting takes 3/6 months.

fonecrusher1

30H!3 wrote: »

You can argue that another way and say - where is the incentive to educate yourself to honours degree/masters level (in IT/law/business/accounting/healthcare or any discipline) if after 4 or 5 years of hard work, study, exams, being constantly broke, etc you are forced into what is essentially a moderate form of slave labour ?

It's lazy, reactionary, backward thinking policy-making. This is from a government which has let costs/rents/markets/expenses/utilities/entire industries/etc spiral out of control leaving literally 100,000's of people unemployed.

God forbid they should formulate a long-term and SUSTAINABLE job creation strategy instead. That would require far too much effort.

I agree. Its not a well thought out plan, its like something that was decided upon after a few pints down the pub. If only the government was as decisive & eager to create actual proper jobs for the employable masses of ireland instead of another half-baked crisis solution.

If you've lost your job in the last 2 years & can not find work this is an unfair situation. If you've been on the dole for years & years, tough. If wouldn't work during the boom, your pathetic.

Its simple our government is useless, they can't provide people with work so this quick fix will stall things for another few years till banks start lending money again. Around & around we go again. Weeeeeeeee!!!!

wolfpawnat

oooomy wrote: »

become a volunteer then. Are you suggesting we return to this as a model?
http://www.triskelle.eu/history/reliefworks.php?index=060.090.020

Better than the system we have, no one should get money for nothing!

I love the Celtic Tiger idea of "oh well I am too good for this and I deserve that" no you fu€king are not so get off your ass! We have gone from the nation that travelled the world for work, to the one who sees the Social Welfare as a lifestyle. I sickens me!

How do you know whether or not I am volunteering as it is??

Sounds to me like there are just too many lazy people in this country with high notions of themselves. I would have thought having to go to the Dole office day 1 would have taken them clean off their high horses!!!!

monkeypants

I've been unemployed for the past year, after paying tax and PRSI since 1997. If I'm called up for this, I'll do it. And that's just the problem. This will only tackle the people who work within the rules, who are looking for work. The chap who hasn't worked since 1985 and has no interest in work will easily find a way to be disruptive and/or incompetent and told not to come back.

It would be more valuable if the current system was better enforced, maybe check that the people in receipt of Jobseekers Allowance or Benefit were actually job seeking. I recently had to go into the SW office to make a claim and the form said that I had to produce evidence of my jobseeking. I paid an internet cafe good money to print out letters, invitations to interviews and the like (I have internet access at home, but no printer). However, no one at the office was even slightly interested in looking at them. Complete waste of time and money. I'm looking for work every day and as I recently said to a phone interviewer when asked about availability, "I can be at your front door for work in three hours."

From the RTE article:

The participants are expected to work in areas like after school services, childcare, services for older people, environmental projects and in the improvement of sports and tourist facilities.

Just going to choose one option lister; who in their right mind wants people with no interest in being there, maybe even actively seeking to be removed from this scheme looking after their kids? Never mind the Garda vetting necessary, what standard of care or attention is going to be given? Is the person going to be trained to some recognised level? I'm assuming that there are mandatory qualifications required for this kind of work. Now people who've got these qualifications will also have to compete with dole claimants for work.

It's an idea that gets floated a couple of times a year, but like with everything put forward by this government, it hasn't been thought through.

wolfpawnat

I think monkeypants that the likes of those projects will be given to those with a bit of exp or certificates in that area!

Jimmy Bottlehead

Funny... before the recession, I was a graduate who came straight outta college, and waltzed into jobs I had zero experience for, other than a degree and enthusiasm. Earned 20-30k a year for 2 years, well beyond my worth, and when i got bored of a job I moved onto the next one.
Always looked down on those who claimed the dole - the vermin of society, those too lazy to get a job, and all fúcking useless. Used to BURN through money, never saved, and somehow flew through 450-600e a week willy nilly.

Fast forward two years... I was unemployed almost TWO years, had sent off hundreds, if not more, job applications. And after exhausting my meagre savings after a month, I had to suffer the dreaded sign on - it was either that or move home to live with the folks. I endured the shame of the social welfare office, as well as my parents being utterly ashamed of me. Denied it to family as long as I could but it came out.

Living on 204e a week was not easy - I went from shopping at M&S to braving Aldi, wearing branded clothes to wearing Penneys stuff...

And there two months ago I finally had my first interview, and nailed the job. I will say this much - being unemployed, and being on the dole, has done me nothing but good. I was a stuck up arrogant dick who was on a very high horse, and i got knocked the hell down. The job I'm in now is fine but I'd not even consider it two years ago. And I stil shop in Aldi and Penneys

But I have to say, this plan is not a good idea. There are so many recent graduates, people without necessary experience, middle aged people who've worked all their lives.... and they're all expected to do lower skilled jobs that (like it or not) are demeaning to them just to get 210e a week? It's simply not fair. Those jobless for 3+ years should be looked at, but this is just kicking the victims of the recession when they're down, and it'll do nothing but upset and degrade them.

I've the utmost respect for those who clean our streets, do community work, etc. but in the same way some of them would hate to be forced into an office job, it is not fair to force these people into jobs they don't want to do. Claiming dole is (for those of us who have some pride) a demeaning experience, a shameful social stigma, and as mentioned earlier, it's bad enough just being jobless and with friends and family knowing, and tut tutting about it.

If these jobs can be created, why not make them proper jobs? Full time jobs? But then that would make sense, and this government aren't known for that trait.

monkeypants

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I think monkeypants that the likes of those projects will be given to those with a bit of exp or certificates in that area!

I agree. I hope that's what they do. The problem with that is that people who have qualifications tend to want to use them. They don't go to all the trouble of getting them and then decide to go on the dole for €196 a week. These are people with a work ethic who have found themselves out of work for whatever reason. They'll get back to work eventually or they'll take the hard decision to emigrate. They don't need this. The people who've been on the dole for long, long periods and have no interest in working have no qualifications and probably no interest in getting any.

billy the squid

overhand_right wrote: »

I wonder will every claimant be made work or will pavee points members be exempt

Pavee Point does not represent the unemployed, I think you are looking for the INOU, (Irish National Organisation of the Unemployed)

To the matter at hand , this is nothing more than fiddling the live register figures. These are just CE schemes made to look like something else, something new. it's all bull****.

fonecrusher1

monkeypants wrote: »

The people who've been on the dole for long, long periods and have no interest in working have no qualifications and probably no interest in getting any.

You see this is what annoys me. There are thousands of people in this country who have been on the dole for years & not even during the boom would they work.
And now unfortunately because A. our government is useless & B. the recently unemployed are now needing state assistance the system is on its knees trying to accommodate the lazy longterm population.

They need to investigate each case & make a decision based on the evidence of how willing someone is to work. Whats that? you've been on the dole for the last 10 years? - im signing you up for the new work scheme. No excuses.

Target the longtermers not people who've lost their job because of the recession.

Amhran Nua

billy the squid wrote: »

this is nothing more than fiddling the live register figures.

Are "participants" being taken off the register?

monkeypants

Absolutely. Target the people who've stayed on the dole from the previous recession all the way through to this one. We had so many jobs that we had to import people to do them.

For the record, let me say that I'll take this up if I'm called. As long as it doesn't interfere with my planned OU studies.

billy the squid

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Are "participants" being taken off the register?

people who take up these positions will not be included in the monthly unemployment figure.

Amhran Nua

billy the squid wrote: »

people who take up these positions will not be included in the monthly unemployment figure.

gah

mikom

billy the squid wrote: »

people who take up these positions will not be included in the monthly unemployment figure.

What sort of shite is that.
They're still unemployed.
Lies, all lies.

fonecrusher1

billy the squid wrote: »

people who take up these positions will not be included in the monthly unemployment figure.

So their status will become: employed???

mikom

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

So their status will become: employed???

The disappeared.

fonecrusher1

Incredible. And now ladys & gentlemen i will make unemployment numbers tumble.....KAAAZAAAAM!!!

All gone.

the_dark_side

I haven't looked at the finer points of what is proposed in this scheme, but what I do think is the type of work that people will be asked to do, will not be low skilled and /or demoralizing.

My guess is if you show a bit of creativity and write your own job description, and show that you are prepared to do 19.5 per week, it can only be a good thing, as the work will stand you in good stead in terms of experience and references if you plan to emmigrate and want to improve your cv etc.

Plus you are networking when your out on the job. Other work could come your way, from the new contacts that you will meet through work.

If your signing and sitting in the house, you have zero chance of networking.

fonecrusher1

I just wanna dance.:(

mikom

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

I just wanna dance.:(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_eTV4lRJYU