"We are a Catholic country"

philologos

Ush1 wrote: »

No, nor does it revolve around the needs or wants of the church.

The state broadcaster is supposed to impartial to any religious material.

I don't want my TV license money spent on that and I'm perfectly entitled to say it.

Does the Angelus really bother you? - Personally, just switching to another channel, or not watching another usually solves the problem. It's usually met with indifference rather than anything else.

Personally, I don't think there is any country on the face of the earth that has complete church - state separation. I don't think there will ever be one either. Of course one needs to strike a reasonable balance between the secular and the religious in a given society.

It appears in Ireland we need to recalibrate if you will. We need to allow for discussion with all voices in society, both atheists and agnostics, and people of varying faiths.

Every society walks a tightrope between the two. Precisely because one might be able to stop church involvement in State affairs, and State affairs in church, but one will never be able to remove faith from individuals. The only society on earth that will have full church - state separation will be a society inhabited by atheists and agnostics only, and to be honest I don't think that'd make a very good society.

It's not an Irish-only issue, I can refer to a lot of countries which are trying to strike a balance on the secular - religious tightrope right now.

fontanalis

A few people mentioend a la carte catholcism, what's that?

Sticky_Fingers

DB10 wrote: »

Sorry you aren't allowed to abuse public figures on here.

See here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055985023

This results in bannings/infractions, so I would advise you to keep your colourful language to yourself in future.

Thanks for the heads up, post edited.

Oh I must say it was mighty Christian of you to quote the offending part so that even if I did edit, it would still be visible in your post possibly resulting in an infraction.

fontanalis

Jakkass wrote: »

Does the Angelus really bother you? - Personally, just switching to another channel, or not watching another usually solves the problem. It's usually met with indifference rather than anything else.

Personally, I don't think there is any country on the face of the earth that has complete church - state separation. I don't think there will ever be one either. Of course one needs to strike a reasonable balance between the secular and the religious in a given society.

It appears in Ireland we need to recalibrate if you will. We need to allow for discussion with all voices in society, both atheists and agnostics, and people of varying faiths.

Every society walks a tightrope between the two. Precisely because one might be able to stop church involvement in State affairs, and State affairs in church, but one will never be able to remove faith from individuals. The only society on earth that will have full church - state separation will be a society inhabited by atheists and agnostics only, and to be honest I don't think that'd make a very good society.

It's not an Irish-only issue, I can refer to a lot of countries which are trying to strike a balance on the secular - religious tightrope right now.

I agree with you, my issue witht he whole "we're a catholci country, and if you don't like it then leave" is the exclusiveness of the claim. What about someone who doens't believe in the transubstantiation (that's one of the big differences in catholcism isn't it?
Do the majority of people who are catholic really know the difference between it and any of the other christian denominations for a start?

jimmycrackcorm

Anybody in this country who is not a catholic can go to hell, but only if they believe in it.

philologos

fontanalis wrote: »

I agree with you, my issue witht he whole "we're a catholci country, and if you don't like it then leave" is the exclusiveness of the claim. What about someone who doens't believe in the transubstantiation (that's one of the big differences in catholcism isn't it?
Do the majority of people who are catholic really know the difference between it and any of the other christian denominations for a start?

Even if one makes claim to the last 2006 Census, leaving asides claims about its current accuracy, 14% of the population subscribe to other belief systems, or no belief system at all. No doubt this figure will be bigger by the 2011 Census.

Fratton Fred

Ush1 wrote: »

In fairness, how many people do you know in Ireland who were raised athiest? Of course they're ex-Catholic and who cares anyway?

What I meant is that opposition seems to come from ex-Catholics, not members of other churches or religions. They seem to be the only ones that get offended by it.

Scanlas The 2nd

Jakkass wrote: »

I think a lot of the level of opposition to benign things such as the Angelus, arises out of a need for atheists and agnostics to assert themselves as an established group in this country in a way that other demographic groups haven't had to.



The problem is, to deport someone, you generally have to have a place where you can put them! :pac:

Non-Catholic also includes about 5-6% of Irish Christians.

The angelus shouldn't be broadcast by a state TV station because no one religion should be given preference by the government, neither should atheism.

Wolfe Tone

TBH what big fooking deal is the Angelus? Its the perfect time to grab a cuppa before the headlines. And about the RCC running schools, the head of my schools board was a bishop, we had a few priest teachers too. Religion was not forced down our throats. We had mass a few times a year, before the exams, if someone died, and maybe once more during the year, that was it. Get over it, there are worst things going on.

Ush1

Jakkass wrote: »

Does the Angelus really bother you? - Personally, just switching to another channel, or not watching another usually solves the problem. It's usually met with indifference rather than anything else.

Personally, I don't think there is any country on the face of the earth that has complete church - state separation. I don't think there will ever be one either. Of course one needs to strike a reasonable balance between the secular and the religious in a given society.

It appears in Ireland we need to recalibrate if you will. We need to allow for discussion with all voices in society, both atheists and agnostics, and people of varying faiths.

Every society walks a tightrope between the two. Precisely because one might be able to stop church involvement in State affairs, and State affairs in church, but one will never be able to remove faith from individuals. The only society on earth that will have full church - state separation will be a society inhabited by atheists and agnostics only, and to be honest I don't think that'd make a very good society.

It's not an Irish-only issue, I can refer to a lot of countries which are trying to strike a balance on the secular - religious tightrope right now.

Not to short change you but it's irrelevant really what I do. The fact is the state broadcaster takes money from people of all beliefs and has an obligation to be impartial.

Wolfe Tone

Ush1 wrote: »

Not to short change you but it's irrelevant really what I do. The fact is the state broadcaster takes money from people of all beliefs and has an obligation to be impartial.

Is 60 seconds of "BONG BONG BONG" that bad?

fontanalis

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Is 60 seconds of "BONG BONG BONG" that bad?

Better than Jedward I suppose!

Ush1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What I meant is that opposition seems to come from ex-Catholics, not members of other churches or religions. They seem to be the only ones that get offended by it.

Opponents of the church in what regard? Obviously people of other religions will have some sympathy for religious belief.

Ush1

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Is 60 seconds of "BONG BONG BONG" that bad?

Again, totally irrelevant if it was 60 seconds or 1 second.

sasser

Dravokivich wrote: »

I think you guys are miss interpeting what Sasser referred to by "private." He even followed up in a response saying he had no intentions of coming across "Opressive."

He just meant that the state should not be considered and shown to be endorsing 1 set religion using the schools and hosptials as examples of very Catholic places used for Health and Education.

All he was saying is if someone wanted to follow a religion, they should be doing it themselves, amongst people who are also following that religion, but not requiring people who are un-interested in it, to have to use their facilities.

It's the exact oposite of the re-action ye all decided to take...

Thank you for pointing this out, much appreciated!

philologos

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

The angelus shouldn't be broadcast by a state TV station because no one religion should be given preference by the government, neither should atheism.

I have to say. Personally as someone who has had no formal involvement with the RCC, the Angelus is something that I'm completely apathetic to. It's merely something different.

All of the disagreement seems to come from ex-Catholics turned atheist or agnostic. Most faith groups in Ireland have no problem with it.

RTÉ also pointed out that support for the continuation of the broadcast tradition has been expressed by the secretary of the Clonskeagh Mosque in Dublin, by the outgoing Chief Rabbi and by the Church of Ireland broadcast committee.

lugha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

TBH what big fooking deal is the Angelus? Its the perfect time to grab a cuppa before the headlines.

Well, well. Mussolini makes the argument that those who take offence at a bit of religious carry on should maybe just ignore it. Ha ha. :P

Sticky_Fingers

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

TBH what big fooking deal is the Angelus? Its the perfect time to grab a cuppa before the headlines. And about the RCC running schools, the head of my schools board was a bishop, we had a few priest teachers too. Religion was not forced down our throats. We had mass a few times a year, before the exams, if someone died, and maybe once more during the year, that was it. Get over it, there are worst things going on.

I've a question for you, when you were making your communion/confirmation did the preparation for the big day happen during school hours, mine did. All those hours that were lost reciting and learning off the answers to those bloody questions and practicing hymns for a meaningless ritual. No one in my class even cared about the religion, it was just time off school work and a big pay day at the end of it.

My younger cousins attended a Protestant primary school and thus they had to do all that craic outside of school hours. This is the way it should be, we are at school to learn not to be indoctrinated.

Dostoevsky

Fratton Fred wrote: »

quite right. If this was a Catholic country, all the pubs would be closed on good friday, the schools and hospitals would be run by the catholic Church and the state broadcaster would run the Angelus at 6pm every day.

Not that your own country of Britain would have a ban still in place on a Catholic becoming head of the UK state still in 2010, where as recently as 2007 a Catholic had to become a Protestant in order to allow her Protestant husband to be in line for the British crown and where in 1978 a Protestant was banned from becoming Head of the UK state because he married a Catholic.

Come back to us with your quintessentially British sense of higher moral ground when a Protestant is forbidden under Irish law from becoming President of Ireland.

PeterIanStaker

Maybe it is a Catholic country, but in another ten years all the oul wans will be dead. Catholicism is one of the few forces that has truly ruined the country.

sasser

Jakkass wrote: »

Does the Angelus really bother you? - Personally, just switching to another channel, or not watching another usually solves the problem. It's usually met with indifference rather than anything else.

Personally, I don't think there is any country on the face of the earth that has complete church - state separation. I don't think there will ever be one either. Of course one needs to strike a reasonable balance between the secular and the religious in a given society.

It appears in Ireland we need to recalibrate if you will. We need to allow for discussion with all voices in society, both atheists and agnostics, and people of varying faiths.

Every society walks a tightrope between the two. Precisely because one might be able to stop church involvement in State affairs, and State affairs in church, but one will never be able to remove faith from individuals. The only society on earth that will have full church - state separation will be a society inhabited by atheists and agnostics only, and to be honest I don't think that'd make a very good society.

It's not an Irish-only issue, I can refer to a lot of countries which are trying to strike a balance on the secular - religious tightrope right now.

I think the French Republic manages it.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Jakkass wrote: »

The only society on earth that will have full church - state separation will be a society inhabited by atheists and agnostics only, and to be honest I don't think that'd make a very good society.

Can I ask why you hold this opinion? Seems to have been overlooked thus far.

spurious

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Maybe it is a Catholic country, but in another ten years all the oul wans will be dead. Catholicism is one of the few forces that has truly ruined the country.

Look at the power they have.
Look at the recent child abuse scandals - and they are STILL in charge of the schools.
We let proven child abusers and their bosses who covered it up run our schools.

moonpurple

if we were a catholic cuntree
their woul not be a shortage of new priests

steddyeddy

As spurious said they still run the schools after the abuse (which they have expressed no real remorse for), the angelus is on before the news featured on the national broadcaster of this country.

KeithAFC

How many catholics live in the republic?

Wolfe Tone

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

I've a question for you, when you were making your communion/confirmation did the preparation for the big day happen during school hours, mine did. All those hours that were lost reciting and learning off the answers to those bloody questions and practicing hymns for a meaningless ritual. No one in my class even cared about the religion, it was just time off school work and a big pay day at the end of it.

My younger cousins attended a Protestant primary school and thus they had to do all that craic outside of school hours. This is the way it should be, we are at school to learn not to be indoctrinated.

Your parents could have asked that you don't make your communion. There was a muslim chap in my confirmation year, he went into the other class when we were preparing. And the people in the other class who weren't making theirs came into our class when their class was preparing.

Jimmy Bottlehead

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Your parents could have asked that you don't make your communion. There was a muslim chap in my confirmation year, he went into the other class when we were preparing. And the people in the other class who weren't making theirs came into our class when their class was preparing.

There shouldn't be the choice between exclusion and indoctrination for a child. They are in school to learn, not to 'study' religion or prepare for rituals - that is an outside and optional activity, and one that should not come near a school.

Borneo Fnctn

There is no such thing as God. And if there is, let him strike down all who read this post.

ejmaztec

moonpurple wrote: »

if we were a catholic cuntree
their woul not be a shortage of new priests

They'll be introducing Father Android Model 1s in all churches as each of the present priests die off. They'll all speak like Stephen Hawking on all matters religious, and have a slot in the top of their head for putting your donations in.