"We are a Catholic country"

Boxoffrogs

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Your parents could have asked that you don't make your communion. There was a muslim chap in my confirmation year, he went into the other class when we were preparing. And the people in the other class who weren't making theirs came into our class when their class was preparing.

That is no good thing, preparation for the Communion and Confirmation ceremonies take months in the planning, between rehearsing the music, readings and doing artwork for the church. It also involves several trips to the church during school hours. While all this goes on, atheist children or children of other faiths are not receiving an education.

moonpurple

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Your parents could have asked that you don't make your communion. There was a muslim chap in my confirmation year, he went into the other class when we were preparing. And the people in the other class who weren't making theirs came into our class when their class was preparing.

so that they were absolutely clear that they were o u t s i d e r s

why could they not go to an empty room and do their homework rather than be exposed to the death tribal vibe

Paparazzo

DB10 wrote: »

The majority are Catholics.

Really? Are the majority against sex before marriage and contraception?

fontanalis

Paparazzo wrote: »

Really? Are the majority against sex before marriage and contraception?

Why do catholics believe in that? I though it was transubstantiation that differentiated catholics!

ejmaztec

Paparazzo wrote: »

Really? Are the majority against sex before marriage and contraception?

Stop talking dirty or you'll burn in hell sinner!

Boxoffrogs

Can I just ask some of the Catholics here, why do they feel it's so important that Children receive religious instruction in school?

Is it not enough that you raise them with Catholic values and attend church with them.

Why the need to reinforce it in school? Is there a worry that without including it in their education, they may doubt their beliefs or should I say your beliefs?

Paparazzo

fontanalis wrote: »

Why do catholics believe in that? I though it was transubstantiation that differentiated catholics!

They're supposed to believe a lot of things. I reckon there's about 10th true Catholics in Ireland. And that includes priests

Wolfe Tone

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

There shouldn't be the choice between exclusion and indoctrination for a child. They are in school to learn, not to 'study' religion or prepare for rituals - that is an outside and optional activity, and one that should not come near a school.

In that case they switched between the two sixth classes and received an education.


Simple solution to this, parents should just ask for their kids not to have confirmations etc... If enough ask....

philologos

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Can I ask why you hold this opinion? Seems to have been overlooked thus far.

Why a society of only atheists and agnostics would be a bad thing? One could merely counter that question by asking why it would be a good thing?

However, a society that doesn't see past itself, or that doesn't seek for higher / alternative ideals isn't really one that I would imagine would be a good society to live in.

It is only by living in a religiously and culturally varied society that we can look into the other and learn things that we had never known before.

sasser wrote:

I think the French Republic manages it.

By depriving people of their right to free expression of religion in the case of religious symbols. France is by no means a model I would look to for a cohesive society.

I_AmThe_Walrus

Where ever religion lays it's hateful head, love is absent.

mickos

KeithAFC wrote: »

How many catholics live in the republic?

Quiet a few

lyverbird1

flyton5 wrote: »

I remember an interview on the radio quite recently and the reporter asked some aul wan for her opinion on the abuse survivors and bringing the priests to trial. She replied "they should leave the priests alone...the abused have gotten their pound of flesh". So maybe we are still a catholic country...blind eye turned to the odd murder or child rape...all is well etc.


If the whole catholic thing annoys you: http://countmeout.ie/

only takes a few mins to fill out...

This reminds me of the last time I went to mass - it was around the time that details of the Father Brendan Smyth case were starting to emerge along with other cases of horrific abuse. The priest stood at the pulpit and asked why 'these people' were only coming out of the woodwork now, they clearly had something to gain, were just after money and should leave the priests alone to live out their retirement. If that in itself wasn't bad enough, an oul one sitting beside me (of the rosary beads constantly wrapped around the fingers type) stood up and started to clap and was joined by most of the congregation. I walked out in disgust and never went back, I still feel queasy when I think about it...

rainbowtrout

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

In that case they switched between the two sixth classes and received an education.


Simple solution to this, parents should just ask for their kids not to have confirmations etc... If enough ask....

That's not possible in all schools. Schools in big towns - yes. Rural primary schools - no. The majority of rural schools have 2-4 classes. So in a two teacher school where confirmation preparation is going on in class, what are the 3rd, 4th and 5th class students doing? Same in the junior class where communion preparation is going on.

It's not the kids that are having confirmations that are losing out it's the ones that are not. Parents (those that believe in the babysitting model of teaching) are happy to let all of this preparation go on in school hours if it means they don't have to do it themselves.

How many parents can you see sitting down with their child at night to teach them stuff for their communion/confirmation?

philologos

rainbowtrout wrote: »

How many parents can you see sitting down with their child at night to teach them stuff for their communion/confirmation?

Our confirmation classes took place in time apart from school with the local minister. It is possible.

I don't think initiation into a faith is something that should be just done, but it is something that should be given due consideration. Personally, I've become skeptical of infant baptism (even though I had one), I think such an act should wait until the child wants to make this decision for him or herself.

If Christians believe that accepting Christianity is a life-changing decision, one shouldn't find this reasoning problematic.

DB10

Dravokivich wrote: »

I think you guys are miss interpeting what Sasser referred to by "private." He even followed up in a response saying he had no intentions of coming across "Opressive."

He just meant that the state should not be considered and shown to be endorsing 1 set religion using the schools and hosptials as examples of very Catholic places used for Health and Education.

All he was saying is if someone wanted to follow a religion, they should be doing it themselves, amongst people who are also following that religion, but not requiring people who are un-interested in it, to have to use their facilities.

It's the exact oposite of the re-action ye all decided to take...

If you think Hospitals are still religous place, you really are very out of touch with how they are run these days.

As for schools it depends, there is pratically always a non Catholic school close by around the country these days so if you join one you know what your getting and it isn't that religous at all unless you want it to be.

And exams like LC Religion are based on world religions these days.

I_AmThe_Walrus

DB10 wrote: »

If you think Hospitals are still religous place, you really are very out of touch with how they are run these days.

As for schools it depends, there is pratically always a non Catholic school close by around the country these days so if you join one you know what your getting and it isn't that religous at all unless you want it to be.

And exams like LC Religion are based on world religions these days.

There shouldn't be any religion thought in schools, full stop.

They're all false. And I don't think a person has a right to believe in whatever religion they so choose....that's bollox.

If I believed that God would come to me if I blew up the White House, I'd be confirmed as mentally insane and locked up.

DB10

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What I meant is that opposition seems to come from ex-Catholics, not members of other churches or religions. They seem to be the only ones that get offended by it.

That is very true. Especially on these boards.

philologos

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

There shouldn't be any religion thought in schools, full stop.

They're all false. And I don't think a person has a right to believe in whatever religion they so choose....that's bollox.

If I believed that God would come to me if I blew up the White House, I'd be confirmed as mentally insane and locked up.

[citation needed]

It appears that you are not interested in a free country either if you are suggesting that people don't have freedom of religion & conscience.

lyverbird1 wrote: »

I walked out in disgust and never went back, I still feel queasy when I think about it...

And so you should have, that's appalling. The relationship between the State and the RCC in terms of the child abuse scandals is probably the most urgent area where discussion needs to happen. The Angelus is an arbitrary issue in comparison.

I_AmThe_Walrus

Jakkass wrote: »

[citation needed]

Que?

A free country doesn't have religious beliefs.

DB10

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Maybe it is a Catholic country, but in another ten years all the oul wans will be dead. Catholicism is one of the few forces that has truly ruined the country.

Your ignorance is shocking.

As has been said, step into a church these days and it has plenty of young people. College masses are attended by many.

philologos

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Que?

They're all false.

me wrote:

[citation needed]

Anti-theism on boards is boring. Most of us are having a good discussion here, lets not be lazy!

I_AmThe_Walrus

DB10 wrote: »

Your ignorance is shocking.

As has been said, step into a church these days and it has plenty of young people. College masses are attended by many.

All brain-washed.

I wouldn't subordinate myself or annihilate my intellectual integrity by having faith in a supernatural entity.

philologos

DB10 wrote: »

Your ignorance is shocking.

As has been said, step into a church these days and it has plenty of young people. College masses are attended by many.

I'd suspect that it depends on the church. I don't think this would be true of every church.

If I am being honest, in a lot of churches that I have been to, there is a demographical gap from about 15 - 25. There are a few exceptions, but by and large this is true. I have seen a lot of young parents in churches though from roughly 25 - 35.

DB10

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

There shouldn't be any religion thought in schools, full stop.

They're all false. And I don't think a person has a right to believe in whatever religion they so choose....that's bollox.

If I believed that God would come to me if I blew up the White House, I'd be confirmed as mentally insane and locked up.

So you think nobody has the right to choose and believe in the religion they want.

Really is your post even worth the time you spent pressing the keys?

I'm sure your fellow atheists strongly disagree with those sentiments. And as you put it, that's bollox.

Lumen

I am an atheist. I do not like choosing between lying about my (lack of) religious beliefs to get my child into the school round the corner, or sending him to a crappier school much further away.

Whilst the local Catholic school claims to be non-discriminatory, I was told that during registration that the Catholic status of my children would give them preference in the waiting list, because "they are not Muslim or something".

The Church is not clinging on to control of the schools for our benefit.

I pay taxes like everyone else. This sh1t has to stop.

ejmaztec

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

All brain-washed.

I wouldn't subordinate myself or annihilate my intellectual integrity by having faith in a supernatural entity.

You could also have been brainwashed by a supernatural entity into not believing in a supernatural entity.

mickydoomsux

DB10 wrote: »

Your ignorance is shocking.

As has been said, step into a church these days and it has plenty of young people. College masses are attended by many.

Sadly this is true. Obviously the whole "get 'em young, keep 'em forever" indoctrination style of the Catholic church is still well in force and works as well as it did back in the good old kiddy-fiddling, priest-is-a-god-amoung-men era of the past millenium.

There should be zero overlap between education and religion because they are pretty much the antithesis of each other.

Ush1

ejmaztec wrote: »

You could also have been brainwashed by a supernatural entity into not believing in a supernatural entity.

Think you've almost essentially described Dianetics.

DB10

Lumen wrote: »

I am an atheist. I do not like choosing between lying about my (lack of) religious beliefs to get my child into the school round the corner, or sending him to a crappier school much further away.

Whilst the local Catholic school claims to be non-discriminatory, I was told that during registration that the Catholic status of my children would give them preference in the waiting list, because "they are not Muslim or something".

The Church is not clinging on to control of the schools for our benefit.

I pay taxes like everyone else. This sh1t has to stop.

May I ask is this primary or Secondary?

Because if it is Secondary School, I think you will find alot may not be religous themselves even if it is a Catholic school.

Mr.Applepie

Hasmunch wrote: »

What he should have texting in

The majority of people in this country record their religon as roman catholic on the census but very few ever practice or go to church apart fom weddings, funerals, communions, chrisening.....

According to that latest census my wife and I are Jedi. That makes me a minority...... gimme, gimme, gimme!