IDF Creating Mind Controlled Pschyopaths? - CONTAINS DISTURBING IMAGES!

the_syco

Joshua Jones wrote: »

THEY@RE CELEBRATING KILLING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.

They're celebrating killing someone who they percieve as the enemy.

The suicide bombers percieve Israel, America, etc as the enemy. The difference is that the SB's will drag the bodies of it's enemies through the streets celebrating their deaths, whereas a few of the Israelies take photos of their enemies.

Is IDF Creating Mind Controlled Pschyopaths? Or is the environment that Israel exists in, surrounded by hostile enemies ensuring that the circle of hate keeps turning, with Israels been bred to think that they are the victim, they attack the enemy, the enemy gets enraged, and attack Israel, and the circle of violence and hate continues.

I think it's the latter.

IrelandSpirit

meglome wrote: »

I'm still trying to see how this is actually worse than any other war or conflict in history. The only difference that i can see is people all have digital cameras and take photo's they probably wouldn't have otherwise. The Jews and the Arabs are not fond of each other in the main, both have done terrible things to the other. Conflict is dehumanising and always has been. So I'm perplexed by this thread really, there is no medical evidence whatsoever that the IDF is creating psychopaths and other than the normal 'The Jews dunnit' stuff I normally see in here I can't figure out why it's even been suggested over any other army or nation.

Of course none of that takes away from just how abhorrent I find the pictures.

I'm also somewhat amused some of you don't seem to notice that most of BB's threads make some allegation or derogatory implication about the Jews. And believe me this is coming from someone who doesn't support what Israel is doing for the most part.

It's been repeatedly pointed out that this thread is not about any particular religion, and yet here you again, Jews, Jews, Jews ...

Why do you continually associate the soldiers in those pictures with Judaism, have you got something against Jews?

Black Swan

This exemplifies man's inhumanity to man, which I fear is not restricted to IDF, but is found around the globe in varying contexts, roles, and cultures. I am reminded of an innocent university research study conducted with college students by Philip Zimbardo called the Stanford Prison Experiment:

"Our planned two-week investigation into the psychology of prison life had to be ended prematurely after only six days because of what the situation was doing to the college students who participated. In only a few days, our guards became sadistic and our prisoners became depressed and showed signs of extreme stress."

Link: http://www.prisonexp.org/

Yitzhak Rabin

Disgusting and disturbing images in the OP.

However, this is in no way exclusive behavior to Israeli soldiers. Man's inhumanity has been recorded in text for millenia and photographed extensively over the past century.

These are the "nicest" images of the despicable sh!t armies have done in the last century:

Japenese soldiers burying chinese enemies alive




Infants killed by the Japenese during the "Rape of Nanking"


Rwandan Genocide


The brutal genocide by the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia


Also when put in comparison. The Israeli flaunting of killing their enemies is tame in comparison to, say, how Ken Bigley's death was flaunted




So in conclusion, are the IDF creating Mind Controlled Psychopaths?

No more so than any other army, paramilitary, or terrorist group in the world.

A much simpler, more interesting and less biased question would be to ask, are modern armies purposely desensitizing soldiers to killing?

The answer to that is probably yes. The book recommended by BrownBomber earlier "On Killing" is a great place to start. It gives some studies conducted by the US military, side-by-side with veterans accounts of what they felt as they had to kill.

As was mentioned earlier the US military conducted studies on how they could condition soldier better to kill. They found simple things like changing the targets when practicing on the range from the traditional bullseye to a human target, referring to the opposition as the enemy, rather than other people, using verbs like destroy, disrupt, engage with, clear, instead of the word kill.

As for the question of whether Judaism, or any religion breeds psychopaths? Someone asked Dr. Andy Thomson this question and I think I would agree with his answer. Its here from 42mins in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnXmDaI8IEo

The talk itself is very very informative, and would recommend anyone with an hour to spare should watch it.

Here's a talk he gave on the psychology of suicide bombers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuipt15s08c

I have more to say about the topic and OP, but am in a rush at the moment.

Torakx

Tnx for the youtube vid on morality i will be watching that one at some stage for sure
I think most agree that this kind of mistreatment of others is not isolated to the IDF.But also the topic is imo true.The IDF do seem to create psychopaths.Much like any army during war time.

WakeUp

alastair wrote: »

There's always option C. Wherein a general knowledge of mental health issues would inform the connection between stated suicidal thoughts and psychosis.

If I pointed out the litany of typos in your post, should I expect queries on my english lit qualifications?

You point away Doc and while you are at it answer my question please for the fourth time of asking is really very simple, thanks.

WakeUp

Torakx wrote: »

Tnx for the youtube vid on morality i will be watching that one at some stage for sure
I think most agree that this kind of mistreatment of others is not isolated to the IDF.But also the topic is imo true.The IDF do seem to create psychopaths.Much like any army during war time.

Exactly. Armies during war time do horrible inhumane things.

IrelandSpirit

Yekahs, excellent vid, 'morality', thanks!

uprising2

Good Post Shakey!

A few good points brought up about changing the word "Kill" to other generic terms, interesting!.

Haven't time to watch the video's but will later, and hope you have time to give your views on military conditioning.

But all in all, all armies create psychopaths, desensitized to killing is not feeling anything about killing, just doing it because it's their job or duty.

Brown Bomber

the_syco wrote: »

The difference is that the SB's will drag the bodies of it's enemies through the streets celebrating their deaths, .

Musn't be very effective suicide bombers so

Torakx

The guy in the youtube video Yekahs posted did a good lecture.
It was interesting that he said psychopaths are genetic in that it can be hereditery.
So if psychopaths are hertited then what are these people showing psychopathic behaviour.Is it inhertied or learned and if learned during training/service is that mind control or learned psychopathic behaviour maybe temporary?

Good video btw just wish they didnt have to throw out insults about religious people to reaffirm their position.

Yitzhak Rabin

Torakx wrote: »

The guy in the youtube video Yekahs posted did a good lecture.
It was interesting that he said psychopaths are genetic in that it can be hereditery.
So if psychopaths are hertited then what are these people showing psychopathic behaviour.Is it inhertied or learned and if learned during training/service is that mind control or learned psychopathic behaviour maybe temporary?

Good video btw just wish they didnt have to throw out insults about religious people to reaffirm their position.

Thanks for watching it, I'm in the process of watching the second video, which, imo, is far better and more suited to the topic. It is a very good lecture at getting into the mindset of someone who is willing to give their own life to take others lives for someone else. It is surprising what balanced, well educated and normal people the suicide attackers tend to be.

You're probably right about the religious thing, it is unnecessary, but he was addressing an atheist conference so I guess he was trying to get a few cheap laughs at times.

I think it is a combination of both. I think humans have evolved a natural tendency to violence against "other" groups of humans. We have great co-operative abilities, but we generally only use it within our own group.

I thought it was interesting that they found our distant ancestors as far back at the Australopithecines and even older killed each other. Also he showed how when you study hunter-gather societies, they find that the men that kill more, have more wives and more children, so we have evolved to be agressive.

So maybe, we are "conditioned" not to kill one another by society from birth. That is what makes it so easy to deprogram humans through military training. We are basically reverting back to our natural state, which is one where it is natural to kill neighbouring human groups.

I would advise anyone who is caught for time to watch the second video instead of the first. Also skip to about 3 mins in to get by Dawkins fluff at the start. The real interesting(imo) is from about 14mins onwards.

Brown Bomber

meglome wrote: »

I'm still trying to see how this is actually worse than any other war or conflict in history. The only difference that i can see is people all have digital cameras and take photo's they probably wouldn't have otherwise. The Jews and the Arabs are not fond of each other in the main, both have done terrible things to the other. Conflict is dehumanising and always has been. So I'm perplexed by this thread really, there is no medical evidence whatsoever that the IDF is creating psychopaths and other than the normal 'The Jews dunnit' stuff I normally see in here I can't figure out why it's even been suggested over any other army or nation.

Of course none of that takes away from just how abhorrent I find the pictures.

I'm also somewhat amused some of you don't seem to notice that most of BB's threads make some allegation or derogatory implication about the Jews. And believe me this is coming from someone who doesn't support what Israel is doing for the most part.

That could've been taken directly from the Hasbara handbook. The apologist stance of I know Israel isn't perfect but...:rolleyes:

Not suggesting that you are a professional or volunteer obfuscator but your conditioned response suggests that you are heavily influenced by their propoganda. Shame.

Personally I think you have a cheek making accusations of racism for sharing news when you haven't once addressed the obvious racism of exclusively white people torturing, killing and gloating over the dead bodies of exclusively brown people. Including a young girl.

Brown Bomber

yekahs wrote: »

Disgusting and disturbing images in the OP.

However, this is in no way exclusive behavior to Israeli soldiers. Man's inhumanity has been recorded in text for millenia and photographed extensively over the past century.

These are the "nicest" images of the despicable sh!t armies have done in the last century:

Horrific all. Evil all. But I see a marked difference between them and the IDF photos. In your set noone is celebrating the evil they are committing/have committed in the IDF it is a matter of pride and celebration to have killed an arab. Also, a lot your photos were in actual war time situations whereas with the IDF it is not a war but a brutal occupation.

Bigley, Berg and the other American chap who was killed is a CT in itself. Many anamolies which I won't go into to here but even Bigley's own family think the film was faked.

Yitzhak Rabin

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Horrific all. Evil all. But I see a marked difference between them and the IDF photos. In your set noone is celebrating the evil they are committing/have committed in the IDF it is a matter of pride and celebration to have killed an arab.

Ok, but that is not something out of the ordinary either (comparatively, obviously its sick, I mean in a combat setting)

As far as we have written history, you have warriors taking prizes from their victims. Hunter gatherer headhunter tribes in the amazon, Vikings would take the skulls of their victims, Like that time the Somalis dragged the American soldiers bodies through the town, there is reports of both allied and axis troops taking trophy's from the enemy soldiers.

Also, a lot your photos were in actual war time situations whereas with the IDF it is not a war but a brutal occupation.

That doesn't change the psychology behind the acts. Its the same thing.

It's disgusting, but it is not unique to IDF soldiers.

Also, I think you said earlier that these people are psychopaths and you would never do anything like it. But I wouldn't be so sure. It is easy to say we are not capable of doing these things. But I think we all are. Almost all of us, myself included, underestimate how easily we can be influenced, particularly within group situations. There have been so many studies which reaffirm this. We have evolved a dislike of feeling different over hundreds of thousands of years. So much so, that we can convince ourselves that something is right if everyone else does it, even though we would never do it by ourselves.

An example of an experiment where you see this is where you have a subject placed in a group of about 20 other actors where they are asked to estimate the size of a line or something. For the first few examples, the actors give the correct answers. But then eventually the 20 actors give outlandish answers. In almost all cases, the subject will go with the wrong answer due to social pressure. I would imagine a similar dynamic is going on with the troops in those photos.

But these kids are probably well balanced, and generally good people, who due to the pressures of combat, and military conditioning view the "enemy" as almost subhuman. But again, this is far from unique to the IDF.

The video I posted earlier explains the psychology behind it a lot better. It is geared at just suicide bombers, but you could argue that all soldiers are de facto suicide warriors, in that, they are willing to die for their country/cause.

I'll post all three parts, as I think its very relevant. The Q&A in part 3 is good too. It also includes bits about the IRA and bobby sands and stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuipt15s08c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iyCPDHplq8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Sda8oMjaI

Bigley, Berg and the other American chap who was killed is a CT in itself. Many anamolies which I won't go into to here but even Bigley's own family think the film was faked.

Look forward to reading about it in aother thread!

Brown Bomber

yekahs wrote: »

So maybe, we are "conditioned" not to kill one another by society from birth. That is what makes it so easy to deprogram humans through military training. We are basically reverting back to our natural state, which is one where it is natural to kill neighbouring human groups.

I'd be more in line with the Dalai Lama on this.

You may find this interesting http://www.sciencefriday.com/pages/2005/Oct/hour2_100705.html

A radio interview with Frans De Waal, a renowned primatologist. He is talking about bonobos, our closest relatives along with the common chimpanzee. From his studies he has concluded that they are capable of altruism, sensitivity, kindness, empathy etc.

Yitzhak Rabin

Another really good (and much shorter ) video about group behavior. If you apply what is being said to soldiers, it becomes clearer how seemingly stable, sane and normal men can do these seemingy psychotic acts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrNIuFrso8I

Brown Bomber

yekahs wrote: »

Ok,

I find your take on it most interesting and I don't think we are a million miles away from each other. It is reasoned and thought out responses like yours and Torax's which is the reason I started the thread, I find it really interesting. I'll watch your videos tomorrow in work hopefully and get back to you. Thanks for sharing. Bolloxed now.

Yitzhak Rabin

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I find your take on it most interesting and I don't think we are a million miles away from each other. It is reasoned and thought out responses like yours and Torax's which is the reason I started the thread, I find it really interesting. I'll watch your videos tomorrow in work hopefully and get back to you. Thanks for sharing. Bolloxed now.

Thanks I appreciate that! I'm gonna put the head down myself. Probably won't be around again for a few days! (Duty calls and all that! ) But hopefully the topic stays on track.

TalkieWalkie

That's so sweet lads, nighty night

Yitzhak Rabin

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

That's so sweet lads, nighty night

Go fcuk yourself! :P :P

digme

lol

meglome

Brown Bomber wrote: »

That could've been taken directly from the Hasbara handbook. The apologist stance of I know Israel isn't perfect but...:rolleyes:

Not suggesting that you are a professional or volunteer obfuscator but your conditioned response suggests that you are heavily influenced by their propoganda. Shame.

well now I'm an apologist and basically brainwashed... good to know. :mad:

As I've said several times previously I really dislike a lot of what the Israelis do, and their attitude often really písses me off. However I don't assume that Israelis = bad and Arabs = good. They've both shown a willingness to be pretty brutal to each other. I also don't assume that my enemy's enemy is my friend, ala Iran. I understand in any conflict that people have done terrible things, pick any conflict you like and it will be exactly the same. So it seems to me this topic is only different in that we're talking about Jews. If this was about, for example, Rwandans I very much doubt we'd see the same claims made or rhetoric posted. And again that doesn't take away from how terrible those pictures are.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Personally I think you have a cheek making accusations of racism for sharing news when you haven't once addressed the obvious racism of exclusively white people torturing, killing and gloating over the dead bodies of exclusively brown people. Including a young girl.

I don't think it has anything to do with colour. It's sometimes people of the same colour and sometimes it isn't.

I don't know you so I can't say if you're racist or xenophobic. But I do have eyes and 21 of the 30 threads you've started in here have mentioned the Jews or Israelis and not once as far as I can see was it anything good. The rest appear to be anti-American. So at the very least you appear to show a serious bias towards the Jew or Israelis, after all they are by no means the only people who do the things you accuse them of. Of course not forgetting all the baseless accusations about them. So why no righteous indignation for all those other country's/religions too? why so specifically targeted? I'm genuinely curious.

IrelandSpirit

In the light of the recent flotilla massacre (and on-going conflict) I can understand why BB chose the IDF as a premise to discus this topic, but I can see nothing to suggest this is specifically about Judaism. People can be indoctrinated/mind-controlled to do horrific acts and believe it is perfectly acceptable - and that goes for the religious of all faiths and non-religious alike, and every army too.

Looking at the pictures in the op just now reminded me of something ...

I met a Falkland's vet years ago who claimed there were trophies taken from dead Argentinian soldiers - bodily parts. I can well believe it, that's not something unusual in itself; soldiers from the beginning of time have collected trophies from the battlefield, genitalia, heads and so on, because they were said to contain the 'power' of the enemy. Perhaps the pictures in the op are a 'milder' version of the same practice.

Maybe there's an occult ritualistic significance to all this too?

meglome

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

In the light of the recent flotilla massacre (and on-going conflict) I can understand why BB chose the IDF as a premise to discus this topic, but I can see nothing to suggest this is specifically about Judaism. People can be indoctrinated/mind-controlled to do horrific acts and believe it is perfectly acceptable - and that goes for the religious of all faiths and non-religious alike, and every army too.

Flotilla massacre? I completely disagree with the Israelis boarding a ship in international waters. However it wasn't a massacre. I don't know if you've seen the footage but the Israelis didn't just jump on the ship and shoot a load of people. From the latest footage it looks like an operation to take the ship peacefully went horribly wrong. I know that won't be of comfort to the families of the people who died and whoever commanded the mission should be in serious trouble.

I have no issue with this thread being about the IDF per se. But as I said I'm curious why over two thirds of BB's threads are about the Jew or Israelis.

Brown Bomber

meglome wrote: »

well now I'm an apologist and basically brainwashed... good to know. :mad:

As I've said several times previously I really dislike a lot of what the Israelis do, and their attitude often really písses me off. However I don't assume that Israelis = bad and Arabs = good. They've both shown a willingness to be pretty brutal to each other. I also don't assume that my enemy's enemy is my friend, ala Iran. I understand in any conflict that people have done terrible things, pick any conflict you like and it will be exactly the same. So it seems to me this topic is only different in that we're talking about Jews. If this was about, for example, Rwandans I very much doubt we'd see the same claims made or rhetoric posted. And again that doesn't take away from how terrible those pictures are.



I don't think it has anything to do with colour. It's sometimes people of the same colour and sometimes it isn't.

I don't know you so I can't say if you're racist or xenophobic. But I do have eyes and 21 of the 30 threads you've started in here have mentioned the Jews or Israelis and not once as far as I can see was it anything good. The rest appear to be anti-American. So at the very least you appear to show a serious bias towards the Jew or Israelis, after all they are by no means the only people who do the things you accuse them of. Of course not forgetting all the baseless accusations about them. So why no righteous indignation for all those other country's/religions too? why so specifically targeted? I'm genuinely curious.

Are you blind?

In every photo posted it was a white solider and a semitic victim. True and actual anti-semitism in action. Why can you not see this? There is no other alternative.

What is clouding your judgement? You see racism in words posted on the internet but yet you see no racism in a series of photographs of white people committing humanitarian and war crimes exclusively against a single ethnic group.

What is it that makes you uncomfortable about accepting clear Israeli racism for what it is?

I assume you have no problem accepting apartheid South Africa was racist so why not apartheid Israel?, who by their own definition of a Jewish state is racist.

Brown Bomber

meglome wrote: »

Flotilla massacre? I completely disagree with the Israelis boarding a ship in international waters. However it wasn't a massacre.

FFS man. How was it not a massacre?

mas·sa·cre (ms-kr)n.1. The act or an instance of killing a large number of humans indiscriminately and cruelly.

And before you bring up the "large number" point - The Valentines Day massacre had 7 fatalities.

On topic. This video was produced and appeared American-Israeli Caroline Glick.

Glick is a former IDF Captain and Netantahu advisor. These days she is a Zionist Warmonger attempting manufacture consent in the US for Americans risking their lives to fight wars for Israel through propoganda and lies in one of the multitude of Washington based think-tanks.

Again celebrating murder with vile racism.

meglome

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Are you blind?

No

Brown Bomber wrote: »

In every photo posted it was a white solider and a semitic victim. True and actual anti-semitism in action. Why can you not see this? There is no other alternative.

Given that most of the pictures have the faces blurred out I don't see this, as that wouldn't be possible. Though not sure if you're aware that Jew's and Arabs are from the same place.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

What is clouding your judgement? You see racism in words posted on the internet but yet you see no racism in a series of photographs of white people committing humanitarian and war crimes exclusively against a single ethnic group.

Again the faces are covered so it's not possible to tell that. I also know from history that there is no ethnic or colour barrier to someone being the 'enemy'. In Europe it was whites on white, in Africa is has recently been mostly been blacks on blacks, in Asia it's been Asian on Asian. So while I'm sure racism has it's part to play, most of it has very little to do with racism.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

What is it that makes you uncomfortable about accepting clear Israeli racism for what it is?

Cause it's bad treatment of an enemy... so while i utterly disagree with it, it's not racism as i understand it.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I assume you have no problem accepting apartheid South Africa was racist so why not apartheid Israel?, who by their own definition of a Jewish state is racist.

You mean in South Africa where European descended whites ruled and controlled indigenous blacks? Seems like pure racism to me. Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is wrong but it's not racist. Unless I'm missing something.

IrelandSpirit

meglome wrote: »

Flotilla massacre? I completely disagree with the Israelis boarding a ship in international waters. However it wasn't a massacre. I don't know if you've seen the footage but the Israelis didn't just jump on the ship and shoot a load of people. From the latest footage it looks like an operation to take the ship peacefully went horribly wrong. I know that won't be of comfort to the families of the people who died and whoever commanded the mission should be in serious trouble.

I have no issue with this thread being about the IDF per se. But as I said I'm curious why over two thirds of BB's threads are about the Jew or Israelis.

Well, there are other threads that deal with the flotilla, but I'm not aware of BB starting any threads about Judaism. Israeli does not equal Jew. I posted a few links on this before, but a simple search for keywords such as 'Palestinian Jew', 'Sephardic Jew' etc should get you on the way, if you want to find out more.

Also, I recommend perhaps you look at the Jewish sites. Although the State of Israel was created as a Jewish homeland, you'll see the Jewish community is bitterly divided over Judaism being equated with Zionism. The two are not synonymous terms.

So I don't think it's right to immediately think 'Judaism' whenever we see 'IDF'. At least I don't, and to be fair, BB does not claim Judaism causes people to become mind-controlled psychopaths either. However, there's nothing stopping you starting a thread on mind-controlled Jewish soldiers or mind-controlled Christian soldiers or Islamic or Buddhist or any religion you like.

Actually, there's a thought, how do Buddhist soldiers deal with the whole notion of killing people?

meglome

Brown Bomber wrote: »

FFS man. How was it not a massacre?

Cause they didn't just come up and shoot people indiscriminately obviously.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

And before you bring up the "large number" point - The Valentines Day massacre had 7 fatalities.

Isn't that were they came up and indiscriminately machine gunned the rival gang?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXrzF0IOQYE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfo91FQVr7M

The footage is very interesting... Firstly it shows the Israelis tried to use paint-ball guns from boats and were beaten back. Then it shows they came back and the whole thing went to shít. It also has an Israeli commander saying they shouldn't have come back the second time, it was a mistake. As I said this attack was wrong and a fúckup but it doesn't look like they planned to kill anyone. No consolation but no massacre either.