Analogue Switchoff - Public Awareness & Help Scheme

Solair

The Cush wrote: »

into the "ariel", that's one confused person alright.

Sorry, couldn't resist

Mock the dyslexic. Nice!:mad:

Gerry Wicklow

Well the ads do promise brighter colours, etc:)

MrSneeg

icdg wrote: »

Anyways, decision's been taken now and we're going with it. Goingdigital.ie is rather garish and isn't the best laid out website, although it is platform neutral which helps. I think 12 months is too short for the scale of the task up ahead, the UK took thirteen years to transition to digital, I'm not sure takeup of Saorview in that short a team is realistic.

yes the website is awful, but its hardly platform neutral, no mention of receiving FTA channels, just tax payers money being used to promote Sky, UPC, etc,

Peter Rhea

MrSneeg wrote: »

no mention of receiving FTA channels

Free to air satellite? How many Irish channels are on that?

The Cush

MrSneeg wrote: »

its hardly platform neutral, no mention of receiving FTA channels, just tax payers money being used to promote Sky, UPC, etc,

FTA channels are only received here via terrestrial and satellite overspill reception. None of them are promoted here so no legal requirement to spend taxpayers money on them.

MrSneeg

as it is a goverment website funded by the taxpayer, the terms satellite tv provider, and cable tv provider should be used, actual specific companies should not be promoted.

Mike 1972

The Cush wrote: »

Cable systems are run by private commercial companies who are not affected by the ITU requirement to switchoff terrestrial analogue services by mid June 2015. .

Thought it was the EU

MrSneeg

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Free to air satellite? How many Irish channels are on that?

9e FTA

Mike 1972

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Free to air satellite? How many Irish channels are on that?

Are Bubble Hits still around ?

MarkK

MrSneeg wrote: »

9e FTA

Saorsat is currently a proposed service.
It does not exist today, and possibly may never launch.

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Are Bubble Hits still around ?

No, they closed a couple of years ago.

Peter Rhea

MrSneeg wrote: »

9e FTA

AKA Saorsat, of course they'll promote that when it's ready.

icdg

Solair wrote: »

I think there's going to be a LOT of confusion, particularly amongst elderly people. I already know someone who was complaining because she plugged a SaorView box which she purchased into the "ariel" which turned out to be a UPC connection.

She didn't know what UPC or "cable" was and just pays X per year for her "piped television".

It's those people who are going to be rather befuddled by the whole thing.

This is why it very much needs to be emphasised, in big bold letters:

This analogue switch-off only affects viewers who receive TV through an aerial.

It doesn't affect cable viewers - other than in Cork, where ASO has already occurred, there are no short-term plans to switch off analogue cable.

Nor does affect satellite viewers for whom ASO took place way back in 2001.

Obviously the reality is that many households will have a mix of cable/satellite and terrestrial. Many may find it more cost-effective to rig the sets that are currently served by just an aerial with cable or Sky Multiroom than to have someone install a rooftop aerial and buy Saorview equipment.

The Cush

MrSneeg wrote: »

as it is a goverment website funded by the taxpayer, the terms satellite tv provider, and cable tv provider should be used, actual specific companies should not be promoted.

Same requirement applies EU wide, 2 examples

Tyne Tees UK - http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/56852/DG31100828_1j_TyneTeesRegion.pdf
Languedoc-Roussillon France - http://www.tousaunumerique.fr/uploads/tx_ftnconfig/doc/3V_LANGUDEOCROUSSILLON_BAG.pdf

The Cush

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Thought it was the EU

17 June 2015 was the date decided at the ITU’s Regional Radiocommunication Conference (RRC-06) in Geneva (2006), "the date after which countries will no longer be required to protect the analogue services of neighbouring countries against interference and be able to freely use frequencies assigned for digital services". This date is generally viewed as an internationally mandated analogue switch-off date, at least along national borders.

The ITU's WRC07 co-allocated UHF channels 61-69 (790-862 MHz) to the Mobile Service (for IMT applications like 3G, 4G, WiMAX) from 17 June 2015. Most European countries could start Mobile Services immediately if they protected broadcasting services in neighbouring countries.

Since then the EU recommended an earlier analogue switchoff date to it member countries - 31st Dec 2012 - so that the digital dividend spectrum (790-862 MHz) can be cleared of broadcasting by 1st Jan 2013. The Jan 2013 date is to be mandated by EU Directive.

Solair

I don't think the advert with Gay Byrne makes it very clear that it's *only* the PAL analogue terrestrial transmission network that's changing.

I have had loads of queries from elderly Dublin relatives about what they're going to do and they're all on UPC analogue cable.

The advert should say :

Are you watching television from a roof aerial or a set-top-antenna. You need to ensure that your TV is either capable of receiving the new SaorView digital services, or purchase a set-top-box. You don't need a new television, you don't even necessarily need a new aerial. If in doubt, contact your local TV retailer.

If you're watching this message on via a satellite, or cable television or MMDS service, you do not need to do anything.

MarkK

Solair wrote: »

I don't think the advert with Gay Byrne makes it very clear that it's *only* the PAL analogue terrestrial transmission network that's changing.

I have had loads of queries from elderly Dublin relatives about what they're going to do and they're all on UPC analogue cable.

The advert should say :

Are you watching television from a roof aerial or a set-top-antenna. You need to ensure that your TV is either capable of receiving the new SaorView digital services, or purchase a set-top-box. You don't need a new television, you don't even necessarily need a new aerial. If in doubt, contact your local TV retailer.

If you're watching this message on via a satellite, or cable television or MMDS service, you do not need to do anything.

It does say "If you are watching this on a TV with an aerial...". but yes it should be clearer that Sky and Cable customers are not affected.

MMDS customers DO need to do something don't they? I thought RTE was not on MMDS?

Solair

MarkK wrote: »

It does say "If you are watching this on a TV with an aerial...". but yes it should be clearer that Sky and Cable customers are not affected.

MMDS customers DO need to do something don't they? I thought RTE was not on MMDS?

I don't think RTE is carried on analogue MMDS, but to be fair, if you're still on that you'd really want to do something anyway - it's dire!

AFAIK it is carried on Digital MMDS which has a somewhat cut down, but still substantial, subset of the UPC cable line up.

Analogue MMDS is surely an extremely small uptake product at this stage?

Antenna

Irish Steve wrote: »

Saorview boxes if they even have a pass through modulator on them.

Unlike Sky boxes and many FTA satellite boxes, No Saorview approved STB so far has a modulator (which would allow the picture received by the STB be distributed as an analogue RF output to other TV around the house). Some non-approved STBs may have one.

However Saorview approved boxes do have a loop-through RF output, so incoming signals (including deflectors/NI analogue channels - whilst still there) can be passed on to the TV's tuner, without having to split the signal.

Antenna

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Will UHF retransmission/deflector sites that provide reception of UK channels also have to cease transmission on 24 October 2012? Following on from this, will current legislation that allows no renewal of deflector licenses after 31 December 2012 be amended to comply with the new ASO date?

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Interesting anomaly though. Analogue output from RTENL sites will end before similar transmissions from sites deemed to be illegal for many years of their existence!

You could also say that cable services continuing with analogue after a terrestrial switch-off date is a sort of anomoly??

In the USA - analogue deflector-style re-broadcasters (they call them 'translators') as well as LPTV, can stay going with analogue until September 2015 - even though the main stations transmitters had to end analog in 2009 ! A difference of more than 6 years.
is that not much more of an anomoly?

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2011/07/articles/low-power-televisionclass-a-tv/fcc-sets-deadlines-for-lptv-tv-translator-and-class-a-stations-to-convert-to-digital-and-gives-hints-when-television-spectrum-may-be-reclaimed-for-broadband/


I do not see what benefit to Saorview bringing forward a date for closure of the remaining deflectors here would be - as the viewers of those still depending on them for UK TV will generally go off and get satellite systems - so instead of (at best) 4 UK channels - they will then have dozens of channels! with perfect picture, so much more competition for the eyes of those viewers over all Irish channels.
Its also worth noting that other life-forms on the MW band in border counties (and Co. Mayo) of the republic kept going after the date the republic completed its medium-wave switch-off in 2008!

watty

The deflectors are stupid since most UK TV went FTA on satellite. The deflectors are using up spectrum.

The MW switch off is purely money. And stupid. Nothing to do with "ASO" which is ONLY Analogue TV via aerial.

Cable operators can do what they like on cable. They will ditch analogue when they need more space for HD or broadband (each analogue channel is many broadband users or maybe 5 x HDTV channels).

ASO is mainly about being able to sell off the 790MHz to 862MHz part of TV band, so called Digital dividend. Digital does allow Widescreen, HD and EPG, though technically true WS is also possible on Analogue. ASO is nothing to do with Radio or Cable.

The Cush

Just been having a look at the Going Digital website and noticed a few things or lack of

1. the information helpline telephone number is not on the front page (like the facebook and twitter links) but hidden away under a "did you know"
2. no option to submit a question
3. the Myth Busters page isn't linked from anywhere, found it while searching for something else

It's only been up a few days but a few bugs to work out it seems.

Going Digital email contact address - goingdigital@dcenr.ie

watty

Thanks.

I've added the link and a news release here: http://www.saortv.info/

(Ireland's 2nd longest running dedicated Saorview site? RTE was 3rd. I think this http://www.mpeg4ireland.com/ is the 1st. Not sure if any updates on it since May 2011 though.)

desaparecidos

The Cush wrote: »

Going Digital website

I see the "Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources" logo at the top of the page so I assume it's an official site.

Who the hell are the government employing to make their websites?? They're awful from both a design point of view and a technical point of view. And not even tested in all browsers. If they did they would see their cruddy horizontal nav doesn't hold the words properly in Firefox.

Also this page is a lie.
http://www.goingdigital.ie/Footer/Accessibility.htm

Blue text on a blue/grey background? Even the black text on that background wouldn't meet minimum contrast requirements to pass accessibility tests.

No doubt the department sunk tens of thousands into this site.

The Cush

desaparecidos wrote: »

I see the "Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources" logo at the top of the page so I assume it's an official site.

Who the hell are the government employing to make their websites??

It's the official Government DSO/ASO website.

The campaign is being run by a consortium led by advertising agency Target McConnells together with BeSpokeWithDirection, 11890 and Millward Browne Lansdowne for the government.

They welcome comments and suggestions about the site

If you would like to see any additional information or have any comments on this website, please let us know by emailing goingdigital@dcenr.ie

http://www.goingdigital.ie/Information/

Solair

The website's really quite bad. It doesn't work in Safari, the drop down menus look squashed (unless that's how they actually designed it ?!) and the colour scheme makes me feel physically ill.

Just shows though, the public sector doesn't get value for money out of any project like this.
A commercial client would never have signed off on a site like that. It's shockingly bad.

Gerry Wicklow

Solair wrote: »

The website's really quite bad. It doesn't work in Safari, the drop down menus look squashed (unless that's how they actually designed it ?!) and the colour scheme makes me feel physically ill.

Just shows though, the public sector doesn't get value for money out of any project like this.
A commercial client would never have signed off on a site like that. It's shockingly bad.

+1
and the help button is a broken link. No doubt this has taken over a year and cost €1,000,000 not counting consultants fees.

MarkK

The oddest thing about the www.goingdigital.ie web site is that if you switch to Gaeilge, the icon for changing back to English is a Tricolour with a big X through it!
Who thought that was a good idea on a Government web site?

The Cush

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

No doubt this has taken over a year and cost €1,000,000 not counting consultants fees.

http://www.e-tenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=OCT272676

The contract was awared on 28th Aug 2011.

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

http://www.e-tenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=OCT272676

The contract was awared on 28th Aug 2011.

To whom and at what price?

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

To whom and at what price?

The information is in the link - http://www.e-tenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=OCT272676

Here also
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/Target+McConnells+appointed+to+communicate+Digital+Switchover+Information+Campaign.htm
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74643389&postcount=98
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74730063&postcount=101