RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

rlogue

I can't help thinking that if this is the future of satellite TV then God help us all - it will be like going back to the old analogue terrestrial model of transmissions going over a very limited area.

Part of the thrill of using satellite TV is for me at least is having the ability to watch TV from abroad and indeed from your own country if you like me live abroad.

I have to hand it to RTE - only RTE would go to all the trouble of pioneering a highly restrictive system that won't go outside Ireland and naturally will only carry Irish channels - thats assuming TV3 and TG4 will go onto this ridiculous Saorsat system.

Have TV3 signed up to Saorsat? They have been very quiet. What about Real Digital? Are RTE stalling them until RTE have Saorsat up and running?

Where's HD from RTE? Are they waiting until they have their own owned and operated service before Sky and anyone else can broadcast HD content from RTE?

Which if any set top box makers have partnered with RTE to provide Saorsat boxes?

The Cush

rlogue wrote: »

Where's HD from RTE? Are they waiting until they have their own owned and operated service before Sky and anyone else can broadcast HD content from RTE?

Tendering process underway for HD upgrade at RTÉ, see this thread - RTÉ Two “high definition light”

Mr McBoatface

rlogue wrote: »

I can't help thinking that if this is the future of satellite TV then God help us all - it will be like going back to the old analogue terrestrial model of transmissions going over a very limited area.

Part of the thrill of using satellite TV is for me at least is having the ability to watch TV from abroad and indeed from your own country if you like me live abroad.

I have to hand it to RTE - only RTE would go to all the trouble of pioneering a highly restrictive system that won't go outside Ireland and naturally will only carry Irish channels - thats assuming TV3 and TG4 will go onto this ridiculous Saorsat system.

Have TV3 signed up to Saorsat? They have been very quiet. What about Real Digital? Are RTE stalling them until RTE have Saorsat up and running?

Where's HD from RTE? Are they waiting until they have their own owned and operated service before Sky and anyone else can broadcast HD content from RTE?

Which if any set top box makers have partnered with RTE to provide Saorsat boxes?

Saorsat is a backup for DTT and for the small % of people who can't get DTT Saorview. The narrow spot beam is the ONLY way RTE could afford to go on free to air on satellite. They could not afford pay extra the broadcast right fees associated with going FTA on for example Astra 28E.

RTE have recently tendered for contacts for the broadcasting of it's future HD content - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056021365. There is no room to have RTE HD on Astra 28E, it's not in sky's interest to use a HD slot for such a small customer base as it has on it's Irish EPG.

TV3 have to come on board the Saorview service, the most likely date seems to be at ASO but it's not confirmed TG4 are currently there on the test/trial DTT service. As Saorsat will a clone of Saorview TV3 will be there, 3E have been invited to join also.

I believe the Saorsat receiver technology will be DVB-S2 based so it's well established technology. We will have to wait for the satellite to launch before we see any approved boxes

watty

rlogue wrote: »

I can't help thinking that if this is the future of satellite TV then God help us all - it will be like going back to the old analogue terrestrial model of transmissions going over a very limited area.

Part of the thrill of using satellite TV is for me at least is having the ability to watch TV from abroad and indeed from your own country if you like me live abroad.

I replied here. http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003558#comment-1004199 as comment to http://www.techtir.ie/blog/loguey/is-saorsat-innovation-or-blocking
Didn't realise you had posted here too

You raise a lot of interesting questions, some of which have actually be answered already in the now Too Long To Read thread.

I think we will have 20 odd satellites to scan for many years. I like my motorised system, which largely replaces Shortwave Radio which has certainly passed its hey-day. Many Shortwave channels are only on Satellite or FM now.

Even after every country gets Ka Band spots, there will always be need for some wider coverage on Ku. C-band hasn't died with introduction of Ku. It's still there if you have space for a 3.6m motorised mesh dish

MACHEAD

rlogue wrote: »

I can't help thinking that if this is the future of satellite TV then God help us all - it will be like going back to the old analogue terrestrial model of transmissions going over a very limited area.

Part of the thrill of using satellite TV is for me at least is having the ability to watch TV from abroad and indeed from your own country if you like me live abroad.

I have to hand it to RTE - only RTE would go to all the trouble of pioneering a highly restrictive system that won't go outside Ireland and naturally will only carry Irish channels - thats assuming TV3 and TG4 will go onto this ridiculous Saorsat system.

Have TV3 signed up to Saorsat? They have been very quiet. What about Real Digital? Are RTE stalling them until RTE have Saorsat up and running?

It would seem that this is the general direction that DVB is going, country specific services and within countries, region specific services.

Where's HD from RTE? Are they waiting until they have their own owned and operated service before Sky and anyone else can broadcast HD content from RTE?

Which if any set top box makers have partnered with RTE to provide Saorsat boxes?

It would seem that this is the general direction that DVB is going. Namely country specific services and within countries, region specific services. Of course there's still going to be close proximity overspill, but not anywhere near the same level as on analogue. If you live in the UK you're expected to sit down, be a good quiet little citizen, watch your UK channels and not worry about what other countries are showing on their TV services. Here in Ireland we're expected to do likewise.

Noreen1

MACHEAD wrote: »

If you live in the UK you're expected to sit down, be a good quiet little citizen, watch your UK channels and not worry about what other countries are showing on their TV services. Here in Ireland we're expected to do likewise.

Good luck to them with that theory!:p
Hobbyists and expats generally find a way of watching the channels they want, using one subscription or another. I can see a whole new specialist market emerging.

Noreen

watty

Internet Streaming.

STB

rlogue wrote: »

I can't help thinking that if this is the future of satellite TV then God help us all - it will be like going back to the old analogue terrestrial model of transmissions going over a very limited area.

Part of the thrill of using satellite TV is for me at least is having the ability to watch TV from abroad and indeed from your own country if you like me live abroad.

I have to hand it to RTE - only RTE would go to all the trouble of pioneering a highly restrictive system that won't go outside Ireland and naturally will only carry Irish channels - thats assuming TV3 and TG4 will go onto this ridiculous Saorsat system.

RTE have being actively seeking a free to air system for the Country for some time. Astra 28.2 was never an option as it couldnt be FTA. Its not RTE dictating this but Hollywood/Sports rights holders. It would have to be encrypted which would have been against the remit of FTA PSB as well as been very costly. The decision to launch these satellite birds has only presented itself within the last year (they havent went up yet). Whilst the combined forces of the Beeb/ITV can afford to launch FTA platorms on sat through their 66million population paying base, Ireland cannot compete on the same platform with a population a thirteenth of that. Infact Ch4 are under similar pressures as a PSB on satellite with the content they buy in!

Yes RTE do concentrate their efforts on their remit rather than the diaspora. Given the previous paragraph it is evident that there is no affordable solution for the diaspora. In the current climate every penny counts residents and licence payers get priority and even doing that is tight.

It is the way things are going on Sat! HD content will become the norm and the Sony's and Warners of this world are tightening FTA content everywhere. Freesat as we know it now for FTA is not what it will be in 10 years time with many many restrictions down the line and more and more narrow band satellites going up over the next 5 years to ensure compliance with whatever restricitive content contracts broadcasting organisations will be forced to sign up to. This is also the case in France and Germany who will also being using narrow bands, infact the French already are to help DSO/ASO.

IPTV is way down the line and certainly not a viable option as a dedicated service within a country in favour of terestrial service (despite what Mr Wimax Irelands's wet dreams may be). Diaspora TV is a highly niche market. Given that most people in Ireland havent the bandwidth to stream a youtube video witthout stuttering I cant see IPTV taking off any day soon.

rlogue

RTE's remit does include the diaspora but they deliberately choose to ignore that and the minister is too weak to enforce it.

watty

It's up to the Government to fund that, as virtually every other Country. The Government "passed the buck" on this and RTE quite rightly is doing nothing till funded.

BBC World Service Radio* is funded by Foreign Office. The reason that virtually nothing has be done in Ireland on External Broadcasts (since 1922) until recent years is lack of Government commitment and funding.

The Minister would just like it to be RTE's remit as it sounds like he decided something. In reality the Government have done nothing and even the MOU is only worth the paper it's on. That's the whole point of MOUs, to sound like there is progress but actually have zero commitment. Again the MOU has no funding commitment on either party.

Is the Diaspora (who unlike USA diaspora don't pay Irish Taxes) willing to pay economic money for a Pay TV channel?

I agree the Ireland has nearly the worst External Broadcast track record of Developed world in last almost 90 years. But it's not actually RTE's fault.

(*BBC World News TV and BBC Prime are BBC Enterprises funded. The FTA BBC World TV subsidised by BBC Prime and other International BBC Pay TV. Al Jazeera was built from ashes of 1st aborted Foreign Office BBC TV Foreign service. There are now I believe a couple of true BBC External Services TV funded by Foreign office like BBC World Service Radio).

Here is a Typical External Service. Well Known

Does Deutsche Welle receive funding from subscription fees?

For the most part, DW is allocated funds by the federal government from German tax revenues.

See http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,,12074,00.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,,12072,00.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,,12680,00.html

Do you want a Real Diaspora TV or simply RTE News Now (which even that would have to be Government funded)

Are really being dishonest and Calling "RTE in UK TV " Diaspora TV? Irish people in USA, Australia, Argentina (over 700,000 ancestry), South Africa and Canada have as much "rights" and less access to Irish Media than Irish in UK (RTE1 on LW, Irish papers, N.I. post code UK Sky subs, ROI subs in UK). How many "UK" Irish would have a Sky sub anyway and how many have rung Sky and given them an N.I. Postcode or taken an ROI sub instead.

Is the target market only people currently Irish Citizens resident outside Ireland, People with Irish Ancestry (2M in Australia?) or potential Tourists and Investors? I'd argue that it should be all three c.f. http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,,3325,00.html
and

According to the Deutsche Welle Act DW's offerings "are intended to convey the image of Germany as a cultural state in the European tradition and as a free and democratic constitutional state. They should provide a forum in Europe and on other continents for German (and other) points of view on important topics, primarily in the areas of politics, culture, and economics, with the aim of promoting understanding and the exchange of ideas among different cultures and people."

The programmes and other information provided by DW are aimed at anyone interested in Germany and Europe, but in particular at so-called opinion leaders. People learning German are also a target group because DW is an indispensable instrument for intercultural dialogue and especially obligated to promote the German language.

In countries where press freedoms are limited, DW is "a voice of freedom", which offers objective, unfiltered information - in particular in regions of conflict and crisis.

And finally: Germans, living either temporarily or permanently abroad, use DW as a "bridge to home".

from http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,292655,00.html

Don't mistake me, I'm 100% behind a Diaspora TV. I lived in Middle East for a year and all I had was BBC World Service Radio
But it has to be funded properly, have the right content, and be available in the correct countries. IMO, UK as most expensive to Broadcast in and area with most access to Irish News and Media should be lower priority not the highest Priority.

Stinicker

I think RTE should set up an IPTV service similar to BT's openvision which would deliver Irish content throughout the world wherever there is a good broadband connection. This would allow expats everywhere to tune in to things happening at home and timeshift the programmes using PVR "+" functionality. I could be like a better version of RTE Player only provided through a STB instead.

Kensington

Stinicker wrote: »

I think RTE should set up an IPTV service similar to BT's openvision which would deliver Irish content throughout the world wherever there is a good broadband connection. This would allow expats everywhere to tune in to things happening at home and timeshift the programmes using PVR "+" functionality. I could be like a better version of RTE Player only provided through a STB instead.

AFAIK, BT Openvision, like most other IPTV services is IP in protocol only. The streams don't actually ever go across the global internet. It remains within BTs own network throughout and equipment located at the exchange end of your phone line switches the correct stream to your set top box.

That aside, if RTÉ were to provide IPTV to Diaspora, bandwidth still costs money. When it comes down to how money is divided up, supplying service to licence fee payers will always come first.

watty

Yes, BT Openvision is like Streaming on your LAN. It's not actually the Internet at all.

The RTE player has to be sub standard quality to avoid bandwidth issues and has to be limited to Ireland or the Rights would cost too much. Even then, it would be cheaper over maybe 2 years if everyone used RTE player to close it and give everyone a FREE pvr that can record every Irish channel and program for a week off DTT.

The Cush

jobyrne30 wrote: »

There is no room to have RTE HD on Astra 28E, it's not in sky's interest to use a HD slot for such a small customer base as it has on it's Irish EPG.

Where did you get that information from? That's not been given as a reason why RTÉ 2 HD will not be on Sky.

This is what RTÉ's CFO Conor Hayes said in July

RTE Two will be carried on what is known as “high definition light”. For example, we would be able to cover the GAA championships of the summer of 2011 in high definition on a whistle to whistle basis. We do not have all the infrastructure at our studios to show the rest of the coverage in high definition. We propose that the high definition services should be offered on DTT only, thereby giving people an incentive to switch to DTT.

and this from the HD tender spec

RTÉ intends to provide a HD version of the RTÉ 2 service initially on the DTT platform. This proposed service may later be offered to other platform operators such as Sky satellite and UPC cable networks

There is plenty of space available for RTÉ 2 HD as it can be carried on any of the Astra/Eurobird satellites because the Irish channels are all encrypted anyway and the existing RTÉ transponder isn't full. I think Sky would have no problem finding space for it. The situation is different for the free UK channels because they require Astra 2D's UK/Ireland spot beam to reduce the overspill into Europe as much as possible and there is no available space to launch any new free channels unless of course Sky transfer any of their 5 encrypted transponders, highly unlikely I would guess.

RTÉ has decided, for the moment at least, to provide RTÉ 2 HD on DTT only as an incentive for viewers to switch to DTT. A seperate RTÉ 2 SD digital stream will be provided to Sky and UPC (see the tech specs document pages 8 & 9).

Trevord

watty wrote: »

Even then, it would be cheaper over maybe 2 years if everyone used RTE player to close it and give everyone a FREE pvr that can record every Irish channel and program for a week off DTT.

Ow...!!

Such a PVR would need a Terrabyte drive.:D

watty

Terabyte drives are cheap and comodity and will be cheaper. Even Heitons sells external 0.5T Byte drives.

Expect to see 4T byte PVRs not long after Analogue close down.

Pal

just picked up on this thread and don't want to go back through 40 pages.
Could somebody give me a one liner on where its at.
RTE FTA coming ? yes no

thanks

Tony

Man you are so lazy I would yes say at this point but RTE are giving out very little info on this .

Pal wrote: »

just picked up on this thread and don't want to go back through 40 pages.
Could somebody give me a one liner on where its at.
RTE FTA coming ? yes no

thanks

watty

Pal wrote: »

just picked up on this thread and don't want to go back through 40 pages.
Could somebody give me a one liner on where its at.
RTE FTA coming ? yes no

thanks

Summary and link to individual boards.ie posts http://www.techtir.ie/saortv

One liner:
Yes, but not in anticipated manner (cue howls from mainland UK) and depending on a not-yet-launched satellite (launch Nov 2010 to Jan 2011). Complete copy of DTT inc all the Digital Radio.

(It's one line if your screen is wide and you make the text small)

Tony

Mainland Uk Watty?

Last I looked they were an Island just like us

watty wrote: »

Yes, but not in anticipated manner (cue howls from mainland UK) a

The Bull

I have this aerial (bottom one) for rte that i got fitted 5 years ago or so. Will i need to get a new areial for the digital service or will one of the new mpeg4 recivers work with this?

Tony

The Bull wrote: »

I have this aerial (bottom one) for rte that i got fitted 5 years ago or so. Will i need to get a new areial for the digital service or will one of the new mpeg4 recivers work with this?

Should work ok

watty

Tony wrote: »

Mainland Uk Watty?

Last I looked they were an Island just like us

Ah, but it's a bigger Island

As opposed to IOM, Western Isles and N.I. It's a common expression in UK. Usually in fine print of Car insurance or Shipping.

Of Course in this case Shetland, Orkney, Scilly Isle, and Channel Is. won't work either.

The Cush

The Bull wrote: »

I have this aerial (bottom one) for rte that i got fitted 5 years ago or so. Will i need to get a new areial for the digital service or will one of the new mpeg4 recivers work with this?

Yes it should work, but only if you pointing to one of the 51 digital transmitters. Do you know which transmitter you are receiving from at the moment?

At the moment there are 170 tranmitters for analogue RTÉ but number will be reduced for DTT (while maintaining similar population coverage), some viewers will have to realign their aerials to one of the digital transmitters, others will have to install a satellite dish to receive the service (Saorsat).

We don't have a complete list of all the 51 sites yet.

Tony

watty wrote: »

. It's a common expression in UK.

Says it all.

Sorry for OT

Stinicker

The Bull wrote: »

I have this aerial (bottom one) for rte that i got fitted 5 years ago or so. Will i need to get a new areial for the digital service or will one of the new mpeg4 recivers work with this?

Those aerials are not recommended for Digital TV at all, they would work away within a high signal area but once you get to the fringes they will be useless without an amplifier and even then with heavy rain there would be fall off, they are cheap at around €9 and fine for analog but not recommended at all for Digital Tv.

The upper bigger aerial although not ideal for DTT would do a damn better job for Digital TV than that red tip aerial lower down.

Kotek Besar

Tony wrote: »

Mainland Uk Watty?

Last I looked they were an Island just like us

Your geography's a bit out there Tony. The UK isn't an island nation and neither is Ireland. Perhaps you're just trying to be cute.

Tony

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Your geography's a bit out there Tony. The UK isn't an island nation and neither is Ireland. Perhaps you're just trying to be cute.

I'm afraid yours is seriously out Ireland in an Island, has been for several thousand years, hence the expression "The Island of Ireland" . The part of the Uk Watty was referring to is also an Island.

Enough of your trolling lets stick to the topic at hand, this discussion neither belongs in this thread or this forum for that matter.

Apologies again for the off topic.

Edit:just to clarify I was having a bit of fun with Watty, he and I have been friends for many years.

Kotek Besar

Tony wrote: »

I'm afraid yours is seriously out Ireland in an Island, has been for several thousand years, hence the expression "The Island of Ireland" . The part of the Uk Watty was referring to is also an Island.

Enough of your trolling lets stick to the topic at hand, this discussion neither belongs in this thread or this forum for that matter.

Apologies again for the off topic.

:rolleyes:

Doesn't even warrant a reply.

The Cush

The Bull wrote: »

I have this aerial (bottom one) for rte that i got fitted 5 years ago or so. Will i need to get a new areial for the digital service or will one of the new mpeg4 recivers work with this?

Stinicker wrote: »

Those aerials are not recommended for Digital TV at all, they would work away within a high signal area but once you get to the fringes they will be useless without an amplifier and even then with heavy rain there would be fall off, they are cheap at around €9 and fine for analog but not recommended at all for Digital Tv.

The upper bigger aerial although not ideal for DTT would do a damn better job for Digital TV than that red tip aerial lower down.

We are going way off topic with this and it belongs over in the terrestrial forum. Maybe mods could move these 5 post over.

@The Bull
Contrary to what Stinicker says I would stick with this aerial. If you are getting reasonable reception of the Irish analogue channels with the aerial you will have absolutely no problem receiving DTT with that aerial provided, as I said earlier, if it's pointing to one of the 51 DTT transmitters.

My situation: UHF aerial pointing to Mullaghanish (50+ miles away) receiving analogue and DTT (Group A red tip aerial). Woodcock Hill approx 15 miles away no analogue signal due to topography. I'm picking up solid DTT (Group B yellow tip) from Woodcock Hill side-on the Mullaghanish (Group A red tip) aerial.

Many other are reporting similar over on the terrestrial forum, this post today for example. Some even suggest a wire coat hangar would work

The DTT signal is much more robust, this is the reason 51 DTT transmitters will achieve the same approx 98% population coverage as 170 analogue transmitters.

What is the upper grid aerial used for? What is your location and transmitter, do you get TV3 thru the aerial?